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OldMacs4Me

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May 4, 2018
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Wild Rose And Wind Belt
So probably going to be more than a few questions in this thread as this was a huge jump from ElCap/Sierra to Sequoia.

Off the top I like to create a bootable external clone for quick recovery should something go haywire while I am updating, testing new apps.... I'm running 15.1 and so far both CCC and SuperDuper have failed to produce a bootable clone. Was hoping to do this before running the 15.2 update. The apps say the clones were successful, but the drive does not appear when I do the hold the power switch boot. Nor are they shown as options in the Start-up disk panel. Thoughts would be appreciated. Running a new SSD on a Sata to Thunderbolt cable. Could Spotlight being disabled be a contributing factor?
 
According to your link the centre port is the DFU. Monitor is on the left port, SSD on the right. Tried CCC again, still no joy.

On further review, both apps create a non bootable clone. Supposedly you can recover from this but without being able to boot from it you are taking that entirely on faith, and you are looking at going through the Apple Installer if disaster strikes.
 
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Off the top I like to create a bootable external clone for quick recovery should something go haywire while I am updating, testing new apps.... I'm running 15.1 and so far both CCC and SuperDuper have failed to produce a bootable clone. Was hoping to do this before running the 15.2 update. The apps say the clones were successful, but the drive does not appear when I do the hold the power switch boot. Nor are they shown as options in the Start-up disk panel. Thoughts would be appreciated. Running a new SSD on a Sata to Thunderbolt cable. Could Spotlight being disabled be a contributing factor?
I don’t have a solution/explanation but here’s some insight on the topic:

 
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The thing about bootable back-ups is that a full recovery takes almost no time, as opposed to the routes that Apple approves of. I expect with the SSD ported via Thunderbolt a full recovery would be under 2 minutes. Most critical during this getting acquainted stage.

With my slow internet just downloading the full Sequoia installer would take about an hour. Plus another 20 to 30 minutes to run it. Even just downloading and running the 15.2 update took over an hour, then another 10+ minutes to confirm or reset various preference settings.
 
A question relating to leapfrogging about 7 versions of Mac OS.

In older system holding Command Key would let me open a new window while leaving current windows open. How do I do that now?
 
Did you consider the scenario of having another volume on your internal SSD with an untouched installation of macOS…along with a Time Machine backup on a fast external SSD?
 
Did you consider the scenario of having another volume on your internal SSD with an untouched installation of macOS…along with a Time Machine backup on a fast external SSD?
I have, even setting that up is an hour and a half versus 5 minutes if I could simply clone it. Did I mention that my internet connection is sloooooow?
 
OP wrote:
"I'm running 15.1 and so far both CCC and SuperDuper have failed to produce a bootable clone."

That ain't gonna happen.
The era of bootable clones is ending (if it's not already over).

However, it IS still possible (for now) to boot from an external drive.
If you want something that is "close to a clone", do this:
- get an external USB3.1 gen2 SSD (or just USB3, if you already have one)
- install a fresh copy of the OS onto it (still a daunting process, sometimes it goes through easily, other times not)
- now, during setup, "migrate" the contents of your internal SSD to the newly-created external boot drive.

The result will be "like a clone". At least "when brand-new".
However, you won't be able to use either CCC or SuperDuper to "update" it.
If you do that, it may be rendered un-bootable again.

No use complaining.
It's "just the way it is now".
Welcome to the world of Apple Silicon, and the ongoing transformation of "the Mac OS" into "the Mac iOS" ...
 
OP wrote:
"I'm running 15.1 and so far both CCC and SuperDuper have failed to produce a bootable clone."

That ain't gonna happen.
The era of bootable clones is ending (if it's not already over).

However, it IS still possible (for now) to boot from an external drive.
If you want something that is "close to a clone", do this:
- get an external USB3.1 gen2 SSD (or just USB3, if you already have one)
- install a fresh copy of the OS onto it (still a daunting process, sometimes it goes through easily, other times not)
- now, during setup, "migrate" the contents of your internal SSD to the newly-created external boot drive.

The result will be "like a clone". At least "when brand-new".
However, you won't be able to use either CCC or SuperDuper to "update" it.
If you do that, it may be rendered un-bootable again.

No use complaining.
It's "just the way it is now".
Welcome to the world of Apple Silicon, and the ongoing transformation of "the Mac OS" into "the Mac iOS" ...
Yeaah I get that, What you are describing is the OS 15 step waltz. Why do something in a single step when you can do it in 15? Must be a nightmare for those who have to update a huge bunch of computers.

Bottom line restoring the internal to the state of the external requires the entire install process rather than a clone back, orders of magnitude longer. Generally once I had the external up and running I would use SuperDuper to create an ASR disk image of the internal. Then in the event of disaster would boot from the external and use the asr command in Terminal to restore the internal drive from the asr disk image. With the MacPro running the back-up drives internally that restore takes less than 5 minutes.

For the moment I won't do any further Sequoia system updates until either this is resolved or Apple goes on to the next system of bells and whistles. Will download the current full installer so at least it's on hand.
 
A question relating to leapfrogging about 7 versions of Mac OS.

In older system holding Command Key would let me open a new window while leaving current windows open. How do I do that now?
Solved this one. The tabs in open windows are not at all obvious, but you can drag a tab to the desktop to get both windows open at the same time. An extra step, but at least it's just one step. Will do another settings dive to see if I can kill that particular whistle.

EDIT: Could not find a way to disable window tabs
 
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A question relating to leapfrogging about 7 versions of Mac OS.

In older system holding Command Key would let me open a new window while leaving current windows open. How do I do that now?
EDIT: Could not find a way to disable window tabs
Finder -> Finder (menu) -> Settings… -> General (tab)

Finder_window-tabs.jpg
 
Finder -> Finder (menu) -> Settings… -> General (tab)

View attachment 2470531
Thanks, :)
I spent some time in system settings with no joy at all. Your post resolved the issue with a single click.

Probably because I jumped from Sierra to Sequoia, the system settings (preferences) now seem needlessly bloated and a bit chaotic as well. Of course once I finally get it set up the way I like I won't need to be visiting SS nearly so frequently.
 
What I'm noticing with the new versions of macOS is that increased security is making some old stuff difficult and other things impossible.

I don't know what you do with your Mac on a daily basis but in my case even my light usage would be painful if I didn't have a fast internet connection…and I wish my upload speed wasn't only 2% of my download speed.
 
What I'm noticing with the new versions of macOS is that increased security is making some old stuff difficult and other things impossible.

I don't know what you do with your Mac on a daily basis but in my case even my light usage would be painful if I didn't have a fast internet connection…and I wish my upload speed wasn't only 2% of my download speed.
It's looking more and more like this is going to be limited to eMail and internet use at least near term. My old MacPro running Sierra or ElCap is more than capable of handling the photowork I do, and my slow internet is more than adequate for anything other than running Apple updates or God forbid reinstalls.

Had intended to play with some newer Photo editing software, but may put that on hold for a little while. I'll probably let Apple continue to solve/create more Sequoia bugs, until they move on to the next batch of bells and whistles. Will then download the final version of Sequoia. Mostly they seem to be concentrating on refining Apple Intelligence to the detriment of the important stuff. In the meantime if I am 100% convinced I need to update something now. I'll borrow the neighbors 100Mbps connection.
 
The thing about bootable back-ups is that a full recovery takes almost no time, as opposed to the routes that Apple approves of. I expect with the SSD ported via Thunderbolt a full recovery would be under 2 minutes…

With my slow internet just downloading the full Sequoia installer would take about an hour…
The days of bootable clones are over because the operating system cannot be corrupted. It’s signed and sit on a read only volume. Every copy of macOS (same version) is the same on every machine down to a single bit.

Recovery now means restoring user data and applications. That’s it. You don’t have to download an OS installer.
 
The days of bootable clones are over because the operating system cannot be corrupted.
Until the SSD burps and drops a critical block or 2. Still it is what it is.
On to the next thing. I see in my Lock screen settings that it is set to show Sleep, Restart and Shutdown buttons. But it doesn't. Turned it off, logged out and back in, turned it back on, logged out and still no buttons.

EDIT: Only half my fault that I could not see them. What Apple calls buttons are really a tiny menu in the upper right corner of the screen.
 
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On to the next thing. I see in my Lock screen settings that it is set to show Sleep, Restart and Shutdown buttons. But it doesn't. Turned it off, logged out and back in, turned it back on, logged out and still no buttons.

EDIT: Only half my fault that I could not see them. What Apple calls buttons are really a tiny menu in the upper right corner of the screen.
Y-e-a-h… Evidently, I haven’t used that function for a while either. The last I recall, it was still three buttons in the bottom right. I like clean aesthetics but, sometimes, it’s too much. Fortunately, I rarely use the function.
 
Y-e-a-h… Evidently, I haven’t used that function for a while either. The last I recall, it was still three buttons in the bottom right. I like clean aesthetics but, sometimes, it’s too much. Fortunately, I rarely use the function.
I use this regularly. Wife and I will both be using this computer. When one of us is finished we log out and put it to sleep. That way if the other is the next one to use it they know there is nothing that needs to be saved should they decide to shut it down for the night. Yeah I know the prevailing thought is never shut down, but that's been our approach for 30 years now and there is no sound reason to change now.

I also log-out before shutting down, easy way to insure that I have left nothing open that I want to save. If I have the system will bring it to my attention.
 
The entire premise of this is based on an idea that macOS frequently needs to be reinstalled these days.
It doesn’t, in fact the “ transfer and reset” menu in the system settings is basically as good as you’re going to get since every copy of macOS is bit for bit identical since they are all verified by Apple.
I used to do a clean install for every new major release of macOS.
Now, though with Apple Silicon? I haven’t done a clean install since 2020 or so. It’s just not something that really needs to be worried about with today’s macOS.
Plus if I might ask since you’re using a Mac mini, exactly what’s wrong with Time Machine?
Time Machine allows you to back up with minimal downtime if there ever is a case where your computer stops working, and for the most part is going to be more reliable than any third-party cloning solution, especially as Apple is only going to make it harder and harder to make bootable clones.
 
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I use this regularly. Wife and I will both be using this computer. When one of us is finished we log out and put it to sleep. That way if the other is the next one to use it they know there is nothing that needs to be saved should they decide to shut it down for the night. Yeah I know the prevailing thought is never shut down, but that's been our approach for 30 years now and there is no sound reason to change now.

I also log-out before shutting down, easy way to insure that I have left nothing open that I want to save. If I have the system will bring it to my attention.
Seems reasonable.

Not a fan of screensavers and auto standby err display sleep?
 
So with CCC and SuperDuber failing to clone the boot drive, will the classical method of
1. Back-up the boot volume to a dmg file (Mac OS Disk Utility)
2. Restore the dmg file to a drive. (Disk Utility)
not work also?

Just be curious.
 
So with CCC and SuperDuber failing to clone the boot drive, will the classical method of
1. Back-up the boot volume to a dmg file (Mac OS Disk Utility)
2. Restore the dmg file to a drive. (Disk Utility)
not work also?

Just be curious.
I am guessing that's the case. Another very valuable use, at least to me, was to do an asr from the disk image to a second external and use that as a sandbox to test new software. That way if I decide not to install it I don't have to track down all the various bits that it may have installed beyond just the application. The immediate thing that I would want to test is XtraFinder. I really miss having icon labels that grab your eye but XtraFinder has been getting mixed reviews in Sequoia.

Can still be done but what should take perhaps 5 to 10 minutes with the crazy fast Thunderbolt transfer speeds, is now nearly a two hour chore with my sadly slow internet connection and the need to download a full system installer rather than creating a clone.

BTW Admittedly my experiences are 7 or 8 systems out of date, but both SuperDuper and CCC do a better job of creating asr disk images than Disk utility. Again you need the cloned system to create that asr disk image. Hmmm I wonder if there is a full version of disk utility in the recover boot that would let you accomplish that, still from the sounds of things I am guessing the scan for asr step would fail.
 
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I am guessing that's the case. Another very valuable use, at least to me, was to do an asr from the disk image to a second external and use that as a sandbox to test new software. That way if I decide not to install it I don't have to track down all the various bits that it may have installed beyond just the application. The immediate thing that I would want to test is XtraFinder. I really miss having icon labels that grab your eye but XtraFinder has been getting mixed reviews in Sequoia.

Can still be done but what should take perhaps 5 to 10 minutes with the crazy fast Thunderbolt transfer speeds, is now nearly a two hour chore with my sadly slow internet connection and the need to download a full system installer rather than creating a clone.

BTW Admittedly my experiences are 7 or 8 systems out of date, but both SuperDuper and CCC do a better job of creating asr disk images than Disk utility. Again you need the cloned system to create that asr disk image. Hmmm I wonder if there is a full version of disk utility in the recover boot that would let you accomplish that, still from the sounds of things I am guessing the scan for asr step would fail.
I’ll try to keep this brief and simple...

As already mentioned, the OS portion is very protected on Apple Silicon Macs. Additionally, Apple has been moving more and more to the user folder. For example:


Therefore, unlike the past, an OS reinstall is of little or even no benefit. Additionally, with the further sandboxing, experimentation seems easier — though not limited to experimentation. In fact, after upgrading to a new Mac mini, I’ve gone back to multiple accounts (for myself). As of now, one general (e.g., email, broad web surfing, photos, music), one for “work” (i.e., photo and video editing creation, etc), and a test bench account. Because, even though there are utilizes such as AppCleaner or I can manually hunt down app remnants with not a ton of time and effort, organizing by account or deleting and recreating one (e.g., test bench) is a fairly simple way to keep the clutter contained and managed. That and incremental backups (e.g., TM, CCC) are a simple means of versioning (i.e., undo some mistakes).

With that said, as far as I’ve read but haven’t done since (probably) macOS Catalina, you can still install macOS to an external drive to use as a secondary/test system.

In the modern era, erase all content and settings, which (basically) destroys and recreates the Data volume, then restore (i.e., user data migration) from an external SSD or fast network storage is the expected method, and should be fairly efficient. That is, assuming such an extensive ‘wipe’ is necessary.
 
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