Got good windows laptop -> going to buy my 1st MBP ever - Buy now / wait for coffee lake DDR4 MBP15?

[KensaiMage]

Hello guys I need some advice.

First of all - I have a good but old windows laptop which can work 1 year more for sure.

I always wanted to buy my first mac (I edit videos, use computer for work, programming, watching 4k videos, photoshop and light gaming - blizzard games).

Do you advice me to buy my first high end 256gb 15" MBP or I should wait for 32GB ddr4 one till 2018 release?

 

[keysofanxiety]

2016 15" with 16GB RAM would be more than fine. They're insanely great machines. Memory management on macOS is ludicrously good too. Even with FCP editing and using VMs simultaneously, you won't find yourself paging to the disk.

Battery life is great, design is stunning, graphics more than good enough to play games. So I'd pick one up now and wouldn't worry!

 

[KensaiMage]

2016 15" with 16GB RAM would be more than fine. They're insanely great machines. Memory management on macOS is ludicrously good too. Even with FCP editing and using VMs simultaneously, you won't find yourself paging to the disk.

Battery life is great, design is stunning, graphics more than good enough to play games. So I'd pick one up now and wouldn't worry!

Will 16GB ddr3 still be enough after 3 years to run newest blizzard games and work related programs with pleasing speed&quality?

Many people say that 16gb ddr3 is not future-proof enough to justify the purchase of newest 15"MBP.

If I buy a MBP now or next year I will want to sell it and buy a new one only when DDR5 MBP comes out (probably not faster than in 5-7 years - and I will want my MBP to run everything flawlessly till the time comes).

Another thing that will make me wait with upgrading to another modell is the fact that in 2024 macs will have their 40th anniversary so something great with ddr5 will come out for sure.

I won't update faster cause mbp is a very expensive machine.

 

[TheOkeland]

The MBP lineup was just updated on Monday, so why not buying a Mid-2017?
Especially if you watch 4k-videos, the Kaby-Lake CPU provides 10bit-HEVC support for 4k, so I would definitely would buy a Mid-2017 model.

Indeed I ordered a MBP 2017 (2,9GHz/512GB/Pro560) yesterday morning.

 

[KensaiMage]

The MBP lineup was just updated on Monday, so why not buying a Mid-2017?
Especially if you watch 4k-videos, the Kaby-Lake CPU provides 10bit-HEVC support for 4k, so I would definitely would buy a Mid-2017 model.

Indeed I ordered a MBP 2017 (2,9GHz/512GB/Pro560) yesterday morning.

Could you please tell me how often do you replace your macbooks? Is 16gb of ddr3 future proof enough in your opinion? Please debate on what I wrote in my second post here, thanks!

 

[TheOkeland]

Will 16GB ddr3 still be enough after 3 years to run newest blizzard games and work related programs with pleasing speed&quality?

Many people say that 16gb ddr3 is not future-proof enough to justify the purchase of newest 15"MBP.

If I buy a MBP now or next year I will want to upgrade it when DDR5 MBP comes out (probably not faster than in 5-6 years - and I will want my MBP to run everything flawlessly till the time comes).

Why should 16GB be not future-proof?
Hell what are you guys doing with your machines?

AFAIK there is no game at the moment that can be played on a Laptop, that requires more than 8GB RAM!
Game developers won't upgrade the RAM-requirement that much. Indeed there are many Laptops/PCs sold at the moment with only 8GB-RAM and this is still enough for most of the games...

 

[keysofanxiety]

Will 16GB ddr3 still be enough after 3 years to run newest blizzard games and work related programs with pleasing speed&quality?

Many people say that 16gb ddr3 is not future-proof enough to justify the purchase of newest 15"MBP.

In 3 years' time, the main bottleneck with gaming would be the graphics card, not the RAM. So I wouldn't be concerned.

16GB RAM on macOS goes an awfully long way. "Many people" just judge against the competition based on paper specs rather than real world usage. One of my colleagues was running VMs and doing coding on a 13" 2016 with 8GB RAM and it still wasn't paging. Again, the memory management is leaps and bounds above Windows.

There won't be an issue. Buy now if you need one now; it'll serve you fine. If you'd rather wait, then wait.

 

[leman]

Will 16GB ddr3 still be enough after 3 years to run newest blizzard games and work related programs with pleasing speed&quality?

Many people say that 16gb ddr3 is not future-proof enough to justify the purchase of newest 15"MBP.

The difference in speed between ddr4 and lpddr3 used in the MBP is basically zero. The question you should be asking ourself is whether the GPU will be enough to run games after 3 years, RAM/CPU should be of absolutely no concern here.

 

[TheOkeland]

Could you please tell me how often do you replace your macbooks? Is 16gb of ddr3 future proof enough in your opinion? Please debate on what I wrote in my second post here, thanks!

Yes 16GB in a LAPTOP is enough in my opinion.
Especially if you consider that the MBP is a business machine in first order!
If you are heavily running VMs or something that RAM demanding, I can understand that there is a need for 32GB RAM, but there will be a need for better specs every-time Apple will upgrade their machines.

For most of the people 8GB RAM is more than enough.
Even for most of the people defining them self as pro users, 16GB will be enough in the next years.

But the discussion about 32GB or not is discussed that often in this forum and you wont get everyone happy.
Apple was able to build in 32GB RAM, but this would reduce battery time, so they didn't.

e.g. Lenovo does not has a 32GB option on most of their lineup either.
The only machine would be the Dell XPS, but there you are using windows again, and windows ist not as ram efficient as macOS.

 

[KensaiMage]

The MBP lineup was just updated on Monday, so why not buying a Mid-2017?
Especially if you watch 4k-videos, the Kaby-Lake CPU provides 10bit-HEVC support for 4k, so I would definitely would buy a Mid-2017 model.

Indeed I ordered a MBP 2017 (2,9GHz/512GB/Pro560) yesterday morning.

Why should 16GB be not future-proof?
Hell what are you guys doing with your machines?

AFAIK there is no game at the moment that can be played on a Laptop, that requires more than 8GB RAM!
Game developers won't upgrade the RAM-requirement that much. Indeed there are many Laptops/PCs sold at the moment with only 8GB-RAM and this is still enough for most of the games...

In 3 years' time, the main bottleneck with gaming would be the graphics card, not the RAM. So I wouldn't be concerned.

16GB RAM on macOS goes an awfully long way. "Many people" just judge against the competition based on paper specs rather than real world usage. One of my colleagues was running VMs and doing coding on a 13" 2016 with 8GB RAM and it still wasn't paging. Again, the memory management is leaps and bounds above Windows.

There won't be an issue. Buy now if you need one now; it'll serve you fine. If you'd rather wait, then wait.

The difference in speed between ddr4 and lpddr3 used in the MBP is basically zero. The question you should be asking ourself is whether the GPU will be enough to run games after 3 years, RAM/CPU should be of absolutely no concern here.

Thank you guys. Here is one more thing I would like you to debate on:

So basically what you say is that CPU and RAM won't be an issue even after 4 years and then I still can buy a eGPU to play Newest Blizzard titles on high FPS for next 2-3 years?

What I mean is I plan to upgrade in 2024 when macs will have 40th anniversary.

So - is buying high end macbook pro 15 and including a eGPU after 4 years a good idea in this case?

...and yes, I will use my MBP mainly for work, but I have gaming roots and I always played only blizzard titles, so I will want these to run flawlessly on macOS cause I hate windows.

 

[TheOkeland]

The difference in speed between ddr4 and lpddr3 used in the MBP is basically zero. The question you should be asking ourself is whether the GPU will be enough to run games after 3 years, RAM/CPU should be of absolutely no concern here.

Totally agree.
And to talk about the GPU, with High Sierra we will get eGPU support, so there is a solution already.

IMO you don't need that much of GPU-power if you are on battery (on the go). And if you are at home, you can easily hook up the eGPU and get the power you want.
Maybe it will be even possible to hook up 2 eGPUs to the 15" model? Who knows?

 

[keysofanxiety]

Thank you guys. Here is one more thing I would like you to debate on:

So basically what you say is that CPU and RAM won't be an issue even after 4 years and then I still can buy a eGPU to play Newest Blizzard titles on high FPS for next 2-3 years?

What I mean is I plan to upgrade in 2024 when macs will have 40th anniversary.

So - is buying high end macbook pro 15 and including a eGPU after 4 years a good idea in this case?

What's with this 40th anniversary stuff? Apple don't hold off on releasing products just to hit some arbitrary anniversary edition. The last computer to vaguely resemble that was the TAM in '97. Just forget the whole thing. Nobody knows what's coming in 2024. Probably not even Apple do.

And yeah the CPU/RAM won't be the bottleneck for gaming in 3 years' time, so eGPU is the way to go.

What would be even easier is building a separate gaming desktop. Upgrade the GPU as and when you need to, then use your Mac for work and light gaming.

 

[TheOkeland]

So basically what you say is that CPU and RAM won't be an issue even after 4 years and then I still can buy a eGPU to play Newest Blizzard titles on high FPS for next 2-3 years?

What I mean is I plan to upgrade in 2024 when macs will have 40th anniversary.

So - is buying high end macbook pro 15 and including a eGPU after 4 years a good idea in this case?

You can't expect to buy a machine that will be as good as newest tech in 6 years.
It will work, but no one can say what will happen in the next 5 years or so.

I would say you can plan 2-3 years ahead. And if you buy the newest tech now, you will be fine for the next 3 years, maybe the next 4-6 years, But waiting for the 2018-model won't help you either.
Yes maybe you will be able to buy a 32GB configuration, but what will it likely cost?
Maybe you will have a better power/price ratio, if you buy a configuration now that will get you through the next 3 years and then maybe, you can go ahead more years are you would have to buy a new one.


But if you plan for the future, there is no difference between Windows machines and Apple machines.
The only advantage of windows is that there the entry price-level is lower.
But if you would want to build up a Dell or Lenovo with the same specs and build quality that the MBP has, you would be in the same price range again.

 

[KensaiMage]

What's with this 40th anniversary stuff? Apple don't hold off on releasing products just to hit some arbitrary anniversary edition. The last computer to vaguely resemble that was the TAM in '97. Just forget the whole thing. Nobody knows what's coming in 2024. Probably not even Apple do.

And yeah the CPU/RAM won't be the bottleneck for gaming in 3 years' time, so eGPU is the way to go.

What would be even easier is building a separate gaming desktop. Upgrade the GPU as and when you need to, then use your Mac for work and light gaming.

I am a minimalist so I will want to stay with only one computer - mbp 15" in this case. Do you think that this year's mbp 15" will make it smoothly till 2024? (with egpu addition after 3-4 years)
[doublepost=1496827531][/doublepost]

You can't expect to buy a machine that will be as good as newest tech in 6 years.
It will work, but no one can say what will happen in the next 5 years or so.

I would say you can plan 2-3 years ahead. And if you buy the newest tech now, you will be fine for the next 3 years, maybe the next 4-6 years, But waiting for the 2018-model won't help you either.
Yes maybe you will be able to buy a 32GB configuration, but what will it likely cost?
Maybe you will have a better power/price ratio, if you buy a configuration now that will get you through the next 3 years and then maybe, you can go ahead more years are you would have to buy a new one.


But if you plan for the future, there is no difference between Windows machines and Apple machines.
The only advantage of windows is that there the entry price-level is lower.
But if you would want to build up a Dell or Lenovo with the same specs and build quality that the MBP has, you would be in the same price range again.

Thanks. However, you know what my plan is. So do you think that this year's mbp 15" will make it smoothly till 2024? (with egpu addition after 3-4 years)

 

[keysofanxiety]

I am a minimalist so I will want to stay with only one computer - mbp 15" in this case. Do you think that this year's mbp 15" will make it smoothly till 2024?

I don't know. That's 7 years away. Apple typically EOL systems about 5 years from date last sold.

In 7 years' time we could be seeing Apple ARM CPUs with per-core performance exceeding that of the i7's entire multicore performance. eGPUs could be using a new TB iteration with 10 times the throughput and no backwards compatibility. We just don't know.

What I can say is that a 32GB RAM MBP won't offer what you're looking for either. CPUs make huge bumps every few years. GPUs even more. Storage speeds might improve tenfold. If anything, 16GB RAM is the least likely thing to bottleneck performance and longevity.

Is the machine great for today? Yes. Will it still be great in 3-4 years' time? Yes. Will it still be great in seven? Probably, but too far away to predict.

 

[Poki]

Blizzard games are very well optimized and not too demanding to begin with. Will you be able to play Blizzard games released in 7 years on todays MacBook Pro? Most probably yes. Even though you will have to dial down the settings, or use an external GPU. Just make sure to get the Radeon Pro 560 model with 4 GB GDDR5, since 2 GB of GDDR5 is a little low for gaming, even by todays standards.

The CPU and RAM will be sufficient for gaming for many years to come, and the SSD used in the MBP might still compete against entry level notebooks in seven years - it's just that good.

 

[smallcoffee]

Will 16GB ddr3 still be enough after 3 years to run newest blizzard games and work related programs with pleasing speed&quality?

Many people say that 16gb ddr3 is not future-proof enough to justify the purchase of newest 15"MBP.

If I buy a MBP now or next year I will want to sell it and buy a new one only when DDR5 MBP comes out (probably not faster than in 5-7 years - and I will want my MBP to run everything flawlessly till the time comes).

Another thing that will make me wait with upgrading to another modell is the fact that in 2024 macs will have their 40th anniversary so something great with ddr5 will come out for sure.

I won't update faster cause mbp is a very expensive machine.

The question isn't the 16gb ddr3, it's the gpu.

But you should wait. It's an impulse buy. If your Windows laptop can last one more year, make it last just one more year. You'll feel much better about the purchase.

 

[ZapNZs]

Are you editing or do you plan to edit 4k/5k?

Based on the timeframe you want this system to last, and possibly based on your workload, it sounds like the iMac Pro paired with a lower end MBP may be a good match for your usage. You could use the iMac Pro directly when at home/work, and remote into it when you are away. Then, you would have access to a tremendous amount of processing/gaming power that will likely get you through the next decade and then some. A 13-inch base MBP or even a MacBook Air would be a nice companion then, or even a Windows laptop for that matter, since you could use your workstation when OTG.

 

[The Mercurian]

Wait if you can.
Early reports on coffee lake sound epic. Hex cores,32 GB 30% performance improvements being touted. I would say wait wether you choose mac or windows machine. I was looking to change around now but now I think I'll wait for coffee Lake. If you buy either now, and next years models are a step change improvement, you will not want to stay on the 2017 for 5-7 years

 

[ElderBrE]

The 2018 Coffee Lake model won't have 32GB RAM as it cannot support it either. GPU-wise, you will have the eGPU option in a year, with next years or this years model as it will require TB3 that this one already has. Even if you don't want to go for the eGPU, the discrete GPUs offered now or in a year won't differ that much, even with Vega around. You're stuck with a low TDP anyway.

From the looks of it, 2018 refresh really isn't going to be much different than this year's, they may even skip Coffee Lake completely and go for Cannon Lake if the manufacturing timings make sense.

So this model is as good as any to get, unless you want to hold until 2019, which will surely be a little nice bump, but that's 2 years from now... Anything in 2 years will of course be a nice bump.

P.D. Why does everyone keep saying the Coffee Lake 32GB is available? Does no one read the specs? It cannot support higher than 16GB either on LPDDR... You have to wait for Cannon Lake for 32GB LPDDR4. And I wonder why this man would need 32GB anyway, 16GB seems enough for his use.