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GPS on iPhone 3G

alphaod

alphaod

macrumors Core
Original poster
Feb 9, 2008
22,194
1,260
NYC
Now they say it will have GPS; and I use my GPS on my current phone. The website right now lists A-GPS in the specifications page and that's not real GPS; it's just network based and it's literally cell tower triangulation; in other words, if I lose connection to a cell tower, I won't be getting any triangulations!

So my question is, will the iPhone 3G have a real GPS chip or just that stupid A-GPS crap?
 
alphaod said:
Now they say it will have GPS; and I use my GPS on my current phone. The website right now lists A-GPS in the specifications page and that's not real GPS; it's just network based and it's literally cell tower triangulation; in other words, if I lose connection to a cell tower, I won't be getting any triangulations!

So my question is, will the iPhone 3G have a real GPS chip or just that stupid A-GPS crap?
Click to expand...

Its real GPS but Apple doesn't allow for turn-by-turn navigation so its not all that useful.
 
skubish said:
Its real GPS but Apple doesn't allow for turn-by-turn navigation so its not all that useful.
Click to expand...

And that's why there is such a thing as the SDK, and TomTom. They already announced weeks ago they will have software ready that will make the GPS much more useful..

alphaod said:
Meh. Another reason not to buy one. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

This topic has been posted numerous times, as well as the TomTom software. A-GPS is the real deal, not this "stupid A-GPS crap" :rolleyes:.
 
nickspohn said:
And that's why there is such a thing as the SDK, and TomTom. They already announced weeks ago they will have software ready that will make the GPS much more useful..



This topic has been posted numerous times, as well as the TomTom software. A-GPS is the real deal, not this "stupid A-GPS crap" :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...


Is this new info? Last I heard was the SDK license specifically forbids making an app with turn-by-turn navigation.
 
alphaod said:
Now they say it will have GPS; and I use my GPS on my current phone. The website right now lists A-GPS in the specifications page and that's not real GPS; it's just network based and it's literally cell tower triangulation; in other words, if I lose connection to a cell tower, I won't be getting any triangulations!

So my question is, will the iPhone 3G have a real GPS chip or just that stupid A-GPS crap?
Click to expand...
Wow. Are you just trying to spread misinformation, or do you genuinely NOT KNOW what you're talking about? A-GPS is NOT "cell tower triangulation". That's what the CURRENT iPhone uses (amongst other things). Please go and GOOGLE "A-GPS". --You should have done that BEFORE you started this thread with such trash talk. You've started a number of threads I've noticed, trying to pan the new iPhone 3G. If you don't like the phone, get over it. No one is forcing it on you. If you want to learn more... read and ask REAL questions. Don't just spout off on things you don't know about. Not really cool.

http://wmexperts.com/articles/gps_vs_agps_a_quick_tutorial.html
Hopefully you have learned how aGPS can mean everything from “it does nothing except for 911” to “it is superior to traditional GPS.” Where new WM devices fall on that spectrum is an ongoing adventure, but hopefully you now have the knowledge to ask the right questions:
  • Is the aGPS autonomous?
  • It is locked down (e.g. hidden COM ports)?
  • Can it use assistance servers when < 3 satellites are available?
Having answers to those will allow you to better gauge what “GPS” or “aGPS” really means.
Click to expand...
And for the record, we do know that the GPS system will feature realtime tracking. Whether this will eventually mean turn-by-turn directions, who knows. I think that question will be more about legal problems (liability for cell phone/driving usage) than anything.

~ CB
 
skubish said:
Is this new info? Last I heard was the SDK license specifically forbids making an app with turn-by-turn navigation.
Click to expand...

Apple has made no indication that they will enforce those terms. It's just a way to cover their hides from liability issues. TomTom isn't stupid and wouldn't invest in making an app they can never sell.
 
alphaod said:
Now they say it will have GPS; and I use my GPS on my current phone. The website right now lists A-GPS in the specifications page and that's not real GPS; it's just network based and it's literally cell tower triangulation; in other words, if I lose connection to a cell tower, I won't be getting any triangulations!

So my question is, will the iPhone 3G have a real GPS chip or just that stupid A-GPS crap?
Click to expand...

Wow, completely clueless. Then again, this is from the guy who posted this:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/501523/

alphaod said:
So I got a touch from that iPod education program; I have 32GB touch and I've loaded it up with most of my music. Now I didn't like the iPhone that much, so I don't know what I got the touch.

I noticed the music loading is like a tenth the speed of loading media onto my Classic. I mean it's a nice iPod, but what can I do now?
Click to expand...
 
Cleverboy said:
Wow. Are you just trying to spread misinformation, or do you genuinely NOT KNOW what you're talking about? A-GPS is NOT "cell tower triangulation". ...
Click to expand...

SlapMonkey said:
Wow, completely clueless....
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is at least the tenth thread I've seen where people who can't be bothered to spend 30 seconds reading about A-GPS ask this question, or start spreading FUD about how the iPhone 3G doesn't have "real GPS". No, people, SEARCH and LEARN: A-GPS is better than what you're calling "real" GPS.
 
skubish said:
Its real GPS but Apple doesn't allow for turn-by-turn navigation so its not all that useful.
Click to expand...

apple says they won't allow turn by turn nav for anyone wanting to develop an app

but tom tom had this app running BEFORE the gps in the iphone was announced to the general public

which leads me to believe they were told of the gps, possibly received a test unit, and are being allowed to do things by apple a normal developer wouldn't be allowed to do

this may also mean apple is allowing your navigation to continue during a call or if any other app starts that would normally interrupt the use of a 3rd party app, basically allowing your gps program to "run in the background" the same way the ipod does now
 
skubish said:
Is this new info? Last I heard was the SDK license specifically forbids making an app with turn-by-turn navigation.
Click to expand...

The part of the SDK which forbids turn-by-turn navigation, and the parts of the SDK before and after this part, are word for word taken from the Google Maps user agreement. These words were not written by Apple, they are purely for legal purposes for google to cover their asses if someone drives themselves off a cliff and blames it on google maps.
There is another thread in which this has already been discussed.

Also, yes, TomTom had their app under development for the iPhone before GPS was announced, suggesting that they were told ahead of time, which would make perfect sense.

Also, as others have said, and has already been discussed many times in many threads in the past 3 weeks, A-GPS is better than GPS it's "Assisted GPS", which simply means that your position is found via Cell Tower triangulation along with Satellite Triangulation. Because of the cell towers helping find you, the GPS can lock your position more quickly because it already has a general idea of where you are.

admanimal said:
When a GPS device is turned on, it has to do some work to determine which satellites are available based on its current location. This is why it usually takes a few minutes for an unassisted GPS device to start up. With A-GPS, the satellite info can be looked up from a database over the cell connection, which it also uses to get a first estimate of its current location. However, the GPS can still work without any of this, just more slowly and sometimes less accurately.
Click to expand...
^from another thread, on the same topic... :rolleyes:
 
There's a LOT of misinformation in this thread. Mostly caused by terrible reporting on blog and so-called news sites.

The part of the SDK which forbids turn-by-turn navigation, and the parts of the SDK before and after this part, are word for word taken from the Google Maps user agreement.
Click to expand...

No they're not. They're very similar, though, so obviously some copying went on.

Apple: "Applications may not be designed or marketed for real time route guidance; automatic or autonomous control of vehicles, aircraft, or other mechanical devices; dispatch or fleet management; or emergency or life-saving purposes."

Google: "You may not use the Service with any products, systems, or applications installed or otherwise connected to or in communication with vehicles for or in connection with: (a) real time route guidance (including without limitation, turn-by-turn route guidance and other routing that is enabled through the use of a sensor); (b) any systems or functions for automatic or autonomous control of vehicle behavior; or (c) dispatch, fleet management or similar applications."

These words were not written by Apple, they are purely for legal purposes for google to cover their asses if someone drives themselves off a cliff and blames it on google maps.
Click to expand...

Partly true. A more pertinent reason for us, is that Google is no doubt restrained from allowing anyone to create turn-by-turn navigation software. Especially since TomTom owns TeleAtlas, where Google gets their mobile map data.

Also, yes, TomTom had their app under development for the iPhone before GPS was announced, suggesting that they were told ahead of time, which would make perfect sense.
Click to expand...

TomTom isn't even an accepted iPhone developer yet.

And no, TomTom doesn't have "an app ready to go" as others have asserted. What they have said is this (translated from French):

"Once the development kit was available, some of our engineers have tried to transpose the Navigator on the iPhone. And the first tests showed that it worked rather well. "

"[As far as marketing an iPhone app], it is still too early to come forward. What is certain is that we have a solution whose tests have proved inconclusive. We must now see to what extent it can be started. It should not be such that finalized a product to be ultimately prohibit access to App Store because Apple has decided to propose its own software or putting forward one by one of their partners."

... "Assisted GPS", which simply means that your position is found via Cell Tower triangulation along with Satellite Triangulation.
Click to expand...

There is no tower triangulation involved in basic A-GPS. It's only used if the GPS doesn't work.

The most important assistance that a carrier server gives the phone, is information on satellite availability and orbits... which would otherwise take the phone up to several minutes to obtain.
 
citron230 said:
I disagree. I used the Google Map directions quite frequently when I am in a car without navigation. I think it works great. Just my opinion though.
Click to expand...


i have to disagree with you im afraid, google maps on the current iphone is unreliable when driving, its distracting and not all that correct, it needs to be more detailed.

if the new phone auto moves to the next step automatically when it realises that youve gone past a certain point, it may be more usefull.

we really need propper satnav software though. i have had google maps send me up one way streets etc, although i think next time im lost using google maps will be easier because i wont have to look up a street name.

we will see.
 
citron230 said:
I disagree. I used the Google Map directions quite frequently when I am in a car without navigation. I think it works great. Just my opinion though.
Click to expand...

my opinions differs, I've used the google maps route on iphone to get somewhere, and it no where near compares to a tomtom. If the iPhone is to truly be a GPS SatNav device, then it must be able to incorporate tomtom, garmin, etc. software. If apple actually enforces the anti-route-guidance clause then they will be making a huge mistake, they'll be rendering the gps useless in my opinione. Location based social networking and geotagging don't mean ***** to me or a lot of people out there, but satellite navigation systems like tomtom are more popular than ever.
 
There is more mis-information in the replies to this post.
Apple states that they DO have Turn by Turn directions. It says 'View'. It doesn't say Audible.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/maps.html

Apple:
Get directions.

Get directions to wherever from wherever. View turn-by-turn directions or watch your progress with live GPS tracking.


Before accusing others of not knowing what they're talking about, be more forgiving and do your homework also. Please.
 
Scooterman1 said:
There is more mis-information in the replies to this post.
Apple states that they DO have Turn by Turn directions. It says 'View'. It doesn't say Audible.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/maps.html

Apple:
Get directions.

Get directions to wherever from wherever. View turn-by-turn directions or watch your progress with live GPS tracking.


Before accusing others of not knowing what they're talking about, be more forgiving and do your homework also. Please.
Click to expand...


Personally if its like it sounds then thats fine, Audiable isnt an important feature for me personally.


although if tomtom were to come along with software in the app store for say £30 then i think i would still get that.
 
Yes, software at a good price would be great. I'm not certain, but I believe I read on TomTom's site that they sell the mobile software for about $149 US. I can't remember for sure though. That seems kind of high to me, but it is about 1/2 of what a TomTom unit would cost.
 
Scooterman1 said:
Yes, software at a good price would be great. I'm not certain, but I believe I read on TomTom's site that they sell the mobile software for about $149 US. I can't remember for sure though. That seems kind of high to me, but it is about 1/2 of what a TomTom unit would cost.
Click to expand...

You remember correctly.

The hardware is now super cheap to make (CPU, touch LCD, GPS, 1-2 GB memory), compared to a few years ago.

Now it's the program and data that costs so much.
 
Scooterman1 said:
Yes, software at a good price would be great. I'm not certain, but I believe I read on TomTom's site that they sell the mobile software for about $149 US. I can't remember for sure though. That seems kind of high to me, but it is about 1/2 of what a TomTom unit would cost.
Click to expand...

Actually you can get a TomTom unit for 149. So the software is the same price as their cheapest unit, which includes the software...
I'd still rather pay and have it on my iPhone though, one device
 
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