Haswell arrives June 4th.

[jafingi]

http://us.hardware.info/news/34689/its-official-intels-4th-generation-core-qhaswellq-processors-arrive-june-4

Yay! Looks like we're soon gonna see a Haswell rMBP

I guess Apple will already have the fixed C2 stepping on their motherboards (remember, it's just an updated chip on the MB). They are lucky that they use their own boards

Guess there is a chance for us to see them at WWDC on June 10th. At least we will see them before September!

 

[justperry]

http://us.hardware.info/news/34689/its-official-intels-4th-generation-core-qhaswellq-processors-arrive-june-4

Yay! Looks like we're soon gonna see a Haswell rMBP

I guess Apple will already have the fixed C2 stepping on their motherboards (remember, it's just an updated chip on the MB). They are lucky that they use their own boards

Guess there is a chance for us to see them at WWDC on June 10th. At least we will see them before September!

All recipients must accept both C1 and C2 packages so if Apple decides to release early they might end up with the USB bug inside the CPU!

http://qdms.intel.com/dm/d.aspx/C79FC2E6-6B75-4063-8687-660F4668FFC8/PCN112101-00.pdf

Date of Samples Availability April 19, 2013
Date of Qualification Data Availability July 1, 2013
Date of First Availability of Post-Conversion Material July 15, 2013
Date Customer Must be Ready to Receive Post-Conversion Material: July 31, 2013

The date of "First Availability of Post-Conversion Material" is the projected date that a customer may expect to receive the new Materials. This date is determined by the projected depletion of inventory at the time of the PCN publication. The depletion of inventory may be impacted by fluctuating supply and demand, therefore, although customers should be prepared to receive the Post-Converted Materials on this date, Intel will continue to ship and customers may continue to receive the pre-converted materials until the inventory has been depleted.

 

[bbishop93]

Is this legit? Is it worth it then waiting to WWDC or should I just buy a rMBP now?

 

[swerve147]

Is this legit? Is it worth it then waiting to WWDC or should I just buy a rMBP now?

The June 3rd/4th Computex date is legit. Is it worth waiting? Yeah, it is at this point, if only to see real benchmarks and performance numbers come out a few days afterward. It's only a little over a month away, that is not a long period at all to wait and see if the gains are worth it.

 

[jbruce2112]

All recipients must accept both C1 and C2 packages so if Apple decides to release early they might end up with the USB bug inside the CPU!

http://qdms.intel.com/dm/d.aspx/C79FC2E6-6B75-4063-8687-660F4668FFC8/PCN112101-00.pdf

I find that wording quite strange. This is a legitimate bug in the Haswell PCH, so OEMs must have some sort of say in whether or not they purchase and integrate this components into their machines, shouldn't they? At the very least, they should have some sort of plan to support the C1 steppings.


OP:
As far as this not being an issue for Apple because they make their own motherboards - I'm not sure that's the case. Like you said, this is an issue in the PCH, which is tightly integrated with the CPU itself. It combines most of the north and south bridge components of the chipset (e.g. the clock, I/O controllers, talking to integrated graphics), so this is pretty much part of the Haswell package. According to the Haswell wikipedia, this is expected to see a reduction from 65 nm to 32 nm. I couldn't quickly find anything about Apple making these parts themselves in their computers.

 

[tmagman]

Haswell is the 'tock' in the intel tick-tock cycle so the performance gains should be quite significant on this new architecture.

 

[e²Studios]

Haswell is the 'tock' in the intel tick-tock cycle so the performance gains should be quite significant on this new architecture.

Keep telling yourself that buddy.. lol Then wait for broadwell and so on.. It's a incremental update, nothing as world peace solving and epic as most your type want to make yourself believe it is.

I'll just be happy when they land so people can shut up about this and stop crowding the forum with useless blabber. Until the next update.. Or until all the new bugs come up.. lol you kids are funny.

 

[Weaselboy]

Keep telling yourself that buddy.. lol Then wait for broadwell and so on.. It's a incremental update, nothing as world peace solving and epic as most your type want to make yourself believe it is.

I'll just be happy when they land so people can shut up about this and stop crowding the forum with useless blabber. Until the next update.. Or until all the new bugs come up.. lol you kids are funny.

It is not like the title was misleading and you got tricked into the thread. If this annoys you so much, just skip the thread.

 

[MoreAwesomeDanU]

Keep telling yourself that buddy.. lol Then wait for broadwell and so on.. It's a incremental update, nothing as world peace solving and epic as most your type want to make yourself believe it is.

I'll just be happy when they land so people can shut up about this and stop crowding the forum with useless blabber. Until the next update.. Or until all the new bugs come up.. lol you kids are funny.

Well at this point there's really gonna be no more "significant" update to CPU chips. I mean how much more speed can you possibly want? A dual core i5 is already MORE than enough to handle all the daily tasks you can possibly throw at it. At this point, its only gonna be a matter of less power consumption and better integrated graphics to drive that retina display

 

[xVeinx]

Um, we already know the performance.... link.

It isn't going to be a huge update, though graphics will improve. Also, Intel required OEMs to accept the C1 variants since there are ways to work around the problem (external USB chip) so they wouldn't have to take a loss like with Sandy Bridge chipsets. OEMs don't have much choice at the moment. Apple actually used some of the broken chipsets last time around since they didn't' need the sata III ports. Who knows what they will do this time around, since adding another chip on a motherboard is a bit more problematic in their case...

 

[jbruce2112]

Um, we already know the performance.... link.

It isn't going to be a huge update, though graphics will improve. Also, Intel required OEMs to accept the C1 variants since there are ways to work around the problem (external USB chip) so they wouldn't have to take a loss like with Sandy Bridge chipsets. OEMs don't have much choice at the moment. Apple actually used some of the broken chipsets last time around since they didn't' need the sata III ports. Who knows what they will do this time around, since adding another chip on a motherboard is a bit more problematic in their case...

Ah, good information. This makes a little more sense now.

I'm guessing Apple will have a little more room on the rMBPs this year due to the integration of thunderbolt in the chipset, along with the PCH shrink. This makes me think that addition of their own USB chip might not be an issue of space, provided they don't add anything else to the motherboard.

It still strikes me as strange that Intel would ship chips to them that they had to provide a workaround themselves to ensure that something basic like USB worked in every case. Oh well. This does give me more hope in the June/July rMBP refresh date.

 

[Pentad]

A dual core i5 is already MORE than enough to handle all the daily tasks you can possibly throw at it.

I'm not sure I would speak for everyone. Your daily tasks and my daily tasks probably vary greatly.

Personally, I would never buy an i5 for the work I'm doing.

-P

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Um, we already know the performance...

No. The Haswell-optimized software does not exist. Only preliminary optimizations exist:
http://de.scribd.com/doc/137419114/Introduction-to-AVX2-optimizations-in-x264

----------

I find that wording quite strange. This is a legitimate bug in the Haswell PCH, so OEMs must have some sort of say in whether or not they purchase and integrate this components into their machines, shouldn't they? At the very least, they should have some sort of plan to support the C1 steppings.

Motherboard manufacturers use C1 in prototypes. C2 is the version for the public.

----------

It still strikes me as strange that Intel would ship chips to them that they had to provide a workaround themselves to ensure that something basic like USB worked in every case.

AFAIK, Haswell-based devices exist already in the secret Apple laboratories. And they contain, yes C1, not C2.

 

[Freyqq]

Haswell is the 'tock' in the intel tick-tock cycle so the performance gains should be quite significant on this new architecture.

however, intel is focusing that improvement this cycle into their integrated gpu

 

[adjeff8]

It is not like the title was misleading and you got tricked into the thread. If this annoys you so much, just skip the thread.

Weaselboy is soooooooo right. People, even the layman...ESPECIALLY the layman, want to discuss these kinds if subjects, and this is the place to do it. I encourage EVERYBODY to feel free to make the threads to discuss whatever you want to know about, as long as it pertains to the forums subject. In this case the MacBook Pro

----------

Well at this point there's really gonna be no more "significant" update to CPU chips. I mean how much more speed can you possibly want? A dual core i5 is already MORE than enough to handle all the daily tasks you can possibly throw at it. At this point, its only gonna be a matter of less power consumption and better integrated graphics to drive that retina display

I want my pages to open in -10 seconds. I want my work to be done before I boot my computer up

 

[thundersteele]

I thought it was june 3...

that one day will make a big difference for me... hmm, what to do?




/sarcasm

 

[UBS28]

Um, we already know the performance.... link.

It isn't going to be a huge update, though graphics will improve. Also, Intel required OEMs to accept the C1 variants since there are ways to work around the problem (external USB chip) so they wouldn't have to take a loss like with Sandy Bridge chipsets. OEMs don't have much choice at the moment. Apple actually used some of the broken chipsets last time around since they didn't' need the sata III ports. Who knows what they will do this time around, since adding another chip on a motherboard is a bit more problematic in their case...

With a test platform that was running with 17 percent less memory bandwidth, it was still 13% faster than a similar clocked Ivy Bridge CPU. So it looks promising.

http://www.techspot.com/news/51986-intels-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu-gets-benchmarked.html

 

[akdj]

Keep telling yourself that buddy.. lol Then wait for broadwell and so on.. It's a incremental update, nothing as world peace solving and epic as most your type want to make yourself believe it is.

I'll just be happy when they land so people can shut up about this and stop crowding the forum with useless blabber. Until the next update.. Or until all the new bugs come up.. lol you kids are funny.

Exactly. Each of these updates are evolutionary, not a massive performance slam ala core 2 duo--->core 'I' series...which the Haswell chipset will be the fourth generation of. It's going to be 'better' but in a 10-15% 'sorta way' if you get where I'm going. Intel's hands are being forced to improve in two key areas. And neither has to do with CPU 'grunt' or horsepower. They're integrated graphics and power consumption. Those are the two areas of biggest concern and where they're placing their focus. No doubt, horsepower will increase as the tri gate transistor process improves and wafers become thinner. However, a massive performance increase or a 'tock' expectation isn't realistic.

Well at this point there's really gonna be no more "significant" update to CPU chips. I mean how much more speed can you possibly want? A dual core i5 is already MORE than enough to handle all the daily tasks you can possibly throw at it. At this point, its only gonna be a matter of less power consumption and better integrated graphics to drive that retina display

You're right if all you're using is yesterday's software. If your gig entails CPU and GPU power and efficiency, updated chips can mean time saved...which in many occupations directly equals dollars saved. Even those of us running our own businesses can vouch for and appreciate differences in updated performance. However...there is still the law of diminishing returns. Upgrading to a fancy new, fast machine is fun...but if you're using any of the core'i' chips at this time, more often than not one can better their performance in other ways...IE an SSD. More RAM...better display, etc.

As always, depending what you rely on your computer to do for you, ymmv. In many cases, an iPad is more than enough for those folks checking email, Facebook, capturing and editing pics and video, surfing the net and reading their books....listening to their music or watching their videos. On the flip side, there HAS to be a platform that allows for the development of all that content being consumed by the iPad users. Hence, the development community...and the need for more and more power.

J

 

[splitpea]

Well at this point there's really gonna be no more "significant" update to CPU chips. I mean how much more speed can you possibly want? A dual core i5 is already MORE than enough to handle all the daily tasks you can possibly throw at it. At this point, its only gonna be a matter of less power consumption and better integrated graphics to drive that retina display

Yup, and 640k should be enough for anyone.

As always, depending what you rely on your computer to do for you, ymmv. In many cases, an iPad is more than enough for those folks checking email, Facebook, capturing and editing pics and video, surfing the net and reading their books....listening to their music or watching their videos. On the flip side, there HAS to be a platform that allows for the development of all that content being consumed by the iPad users. Hence, the development community...and the need for more and more power.

This. Apple is trying to make laptops right now for the mass market, but pretty soon there will be no mass market left for laptops, and it'll just be a professional market that *can't* do their work on an iPad.

Apple seems to forget that they escaped their 90s doldrums by making a platform that was spectacular for professionals -- content and particularly software creators. It was these people, who found that the OS X platform was fun to make software on and for, we're the ones who turned around the perception that you shouldn't buy a Mac because there's no software for it.

Well, apple seems to be going out of their way now to make things hard on developers -- whether it's creating hardware that doesn't meet the expectations of power users, or dumbing down their OS in ways that interfere with the power user's workflow, or even just the pain the the ass process and obnoxious, limiting rules and hoop-jumping to get an application into the app store (at my place of work, you'll hear someone swear at apple for it daily).

Down the line (and I mean in the 7-10 year range), as more consumers discover they can get by with less-expensive tablets instead of laptops, apple is going to have a choice on its hands. It can drop laptops to mass market prices (something that doesn't seem very apple-like). It can tailor them and the OS to the needs of the professionals who still need them. Or it can drop them altogether, and run the risk of its becoming very difficult or even less attractive to develop applications for iOS, causing what will then be their flagship platform to start to fall behind. Personally, I think the second option would be the best... But if not, well, apple will probably lose a consumer for their devices too.

 

[xVeinx]

With a test platform that was running with 17 percent less memory bandwidth, it was still 13% faster than a similar clocked Ivy Bridge CPU. So it looks promising.

http://www.techspot.com/news/51986-intels-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu-gets-benchmarked.html

It will be faster, but the degree to which it will be faster will vary, averaging about 5% on most things. As someone else pointed out, there are new instructions, such as AVX2 that will help boost some software after a recompile. Newer instructions are going to be the predominant speed boost going forward it would seem to me. Unfortunately, it takes a good 6 months to a year to see any amount of software get optimized for newer processor instructions.