HDV to Apple Color workflow... ProRes it?

[ChemiosMurphy]

Hello everyone.

So next week I'll be editing a short narrative film that was shot on HDV (720p24). I plan on round tripping the project into color once i'm done editing the picture and burning to Blu-Ray

So here's where the workflow fun begins...

Option A) Capture as HDV, edit as HDV with ProRes timeline, send to color.

Option B) Capture as HDV, Transcode to ProRes while saving the HDV on another hard disk as backup, edit ProRes timeline, send to color.

Does anyone else have any suggestions? My current rig is in my sig, and I will have the 2 WD 640 AAKS's in a RAID-0 (when they arrive from newegg).

Also, I will be authoring the project onto Blu-Ray with Encore, so how should I export the Master from FCP (It'll be encoded to BD-R using the H.264 format)? Just do it uncompressed?

Thanks!!!!

 

[cpcarrot]

Check out the following tutorial:

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/capture_hdv_prores_fw_balis.html

Which is probably the most efficient method. Basically capture straight to ProRes and do all your editing and color grading in a single codex. ProRes is a lot better for doing work in Color and if your going to have to change codex it is better to do it as the 1st process and stick with it the whole way through.

Otherwise Option B).

 

[LethalWolfe]

If it was me I'd capture and edit everything as HDV then once the edit is locked make a Media Managed copy of the project and transcode everything into ProRes at that point and then use the ProRes version w/Color and any other finishing tweaks. Capturing HDV to ProRes via FW creates new TC different from the master tape TC and not being able to re-capture from the master tapes goes against my editing religion. If a drive dies, a file gets corrupted, or something else forces you to go back to the master tapes you won't be a happy camper. Since you are editing in RAID-0 and especially if you capture HDV to ProRes you must have all of your footage backed up on some external drives. If one drive in your RAID dies all your footage goes bye-bye. If you captured as HDV you'd just have to batch capture from the master tapes. If you captured as ProRes you'd have to recapture and then re-edit the project from scratch.

Capturing as HDV then transcoding all that to ProRes (which you'd want to use the Media Manager to do so you don't lose your TC info, reel #s, etc.,) would be okay if you only have a couple of tapes to work with, but any more than that and I'd start to think I was spending to much time, and space, converting a whole lot of footage that's not going to make it into the final cut.

Also, before you send anything to Color be sure to ready the manual (yes, the entire manual) so you have an idea of how to keep Color happy. Color is very finicky and if don't work around its finicky nature you will not enjoy having Color in your life.

In regards to Blu-Ray, I haven't used Encore but from what I've read you'd use Compressor to create the file, then take that to Encore (which apparently is buggy as hell on the Mac) to author the BR-DVD, then you'd use Toast to actually burn it onto a 3rd party, Mac-compatible BR-burner. Easy as pie.

Check out Walter Biscardi's blog as he has lots of info about the painful road of making BR discs on a Mac.


Lethal

 

[ChemiosMurphy]

If it was me I'd capture and edit everything as HDV then once the edit is locked make a Media Managed copy of the project and transcode everything into ProRes at that point and then use the ProRes version w/Color and any other finishing tweaks. Capturing HDV to ProRes via FW creates new TC different from the master tape TC and not being able to re-capture from the master tapes goes against my editing religion. If a drive dies, a file gets corrupted, or something else forces you to go back to the master tapes you won't be a happy camper. Since you are editing in RAID-0 and especially if you capture HDV to ProRes you must have all of your footage backed up on some external drives. If one drive in your RAID dies all your footage goes bye-bye. If you captured as HDV you'd just have to batch capture from the master tapes. If you captured as ProRes you'd have to recapture and then re-edit the project from scratch.

Capturing as HDV then transcoding all that to ProRes (which you'd want to use the Media Manager to do so you don't lose your TC info, reel #s, etc.,) would be okay if you only have a couple of tapes to work with, but any more than that and I'd start to think I was spending to much time, and space, converting a whole lot of footage that's not going to make it into the final cut.

Also, before you send anything to Color be sure to ready the manual (yes, the entire manual) so you have an idea of how to keep Color happy. Color is very finicky and if don't work around its finicky nature you will not enjoy having Color in your life.

In regards to Blu-Ray, I haven't used Encore but from what I've read you'd use Compressor to create the file, then take that to Encore (which apparently is buggy as hell on the Mac) to author the BR-DVD, then you'd use Toast to actually burn it onto a 3rd party, Mac-compatible BR-burner. Easy as pie.

Check out Walter Biscardi's blog as he has lots of info about the painful road of making BR discs on a Mac.


Lethal

Damn Lethal, you rock. Seriously.

I never knew that you couldn't just capture the HDV files, save the FCP file, go to compressor and convert the HDV to Pro res and just re-connect media in final cut. I thought that all the meta-data was within the FCP file?

Also, I've never edited in HDV before, but with an 8 core MP, will it be sluggish at all?

Otherwise, i'm going to go with your plan. Thank you!!

 

[LethalWolfe]

Damn Lethal, you rock. Seriously.

My advice comes at the price of lots of painful person experience which is a big part of why I try and help out. There have been times sh*t has happened that's felt like someone kicked me in the nuts and if I can help others from feeling that pain, awesome.

I never knew that you couldn't just capture the HDV files, save the FCP file, go to compressor and convert the HDV to Pro res and just re-connect media in final cut. I thought that all the meta-data was within the FCP file?

Most of the meta-data is store inside FCP (like markers, comments, etc,.) but a few pieces of metadata (like TC and reel #) are stored on the QT file itself. Using Media Manager to transcode your footage will keep that metadata in tact where as converting via other means will strip that info out (which is no good if you ever have to go back to the source tape). I'm not sure if Compressor strips it out or not as I haven't used Compressor for much beyond DVDs and web exports.

Also, I've never edited in HDV before, but with an 8 core MP, will it be sluggish at all?

At work I have an old, dual 2ghz G5 and rendering and exporting is s-l-o-w compared to the intel machines, but the timeline and what not doesn't feel sluggish. Although the Media Manager can be funky at times (it's nicknamed the Media Mangler) it's gotten better over the years and we've been using on it all year on a TV show and it hasn't screwed us yet. If you have any Q's about what options to check/uncheck when it comes time to Media Manage the project just let me know and I'll do my best to help.


Lethal

 

[ChemiosMurphy]

My advice comes at the price of lots of painful person experience which is a big part of why I try and help out. There have been times sh*t has happened that's felt like someone kicked me in the nuts and if I can help others from feeling that pain, awesome.

Lethal

Thanks, It is appreciated, and very good way of putting it.

I messed around with a few clips tonight and did a few tests tonight using the "Batch export function." It worked. I filled in a "clip description" and a "reel number" and once i exported it to ProRes and reimported it into a new FCP file, it remembered the Reel number, and reel number only.

I got the info from this site. It was pretty inquisitive.

If you have any Q's about what options to check/uncheck when it comes time to Media Manage the project just let me know and I'll do my best to help.

In order to recompress it to ProRes for Color....
-I just make the drop down "recompress"
-and only check "delete unused media" ....

I have the Apple Pro Training Series book on Color and it has taught me a lot about it, and my boss at my university TV station gave me a quick rundown. I agree with your earlier post that it is finnicky, the no more than 2 video card problem really bothers me since I'm on an MXO...