Help convince IT on MBP and not HP Laptop

[forsey]

Help me justify the Mac for business.

I told my IT group I wanted a 17" MBP for the performance, size and lighter weight for travel. And with Intel Core2 Due, Bootcamp and Windows XP - for all intensive purposes I'd be running a windows PC. (also an issue of theirs...even with all the arguments already answered)

I thought they wouldn't be able to match screen/weight/power so it'd be easy to convince just on those basics.

They came back with a 17" HP no frills machine that is close to the basic request - large screen, core2 duo, with and light weight.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=1286935&cm_sp=Product-_-Overview-_-Main+Tab

I have the budget covered and am looking for holes in their case to get the HP. I'd love the Mac to have more fun while not working and traveling. Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

[CashGap]

Everything you need to know about IT folk can be learned by watching Star Trek.

Kirk (on intercom) : "Engineering!"
Scotty (on intercom) : "We caahn't do it!"
Kirk (on intercom) : "I haven't even said what I want yet"
Scotty (on intercom) : "It doesn't matter, we caahn't do it, the crystals won't take the strain!"

If you are ASKING the IT folks, you're sunk. They wield small power viciously. You either need to TELL them, or go to someone who can TELL them. Your boss, etc.

100% focus on not getting fired for making a decision. Read some of Carr's excellent books on the subject.

So basically... skip the speeds and feeds debate, they'll whimper to death about how you are going to be a support drain or a security risk. If you outrank them, buy it. If you don't, go up YOUR chain of (hopefully) thinkers and get it done.

My $.02. By the way, I abandoned IT as a career after nearly two decades mainly due to the horrible attitudes in the field.

 

[fireoutside]

I'm in the (partially) same boat. I'm the Art Director for Technology at the company I work for and I'm trying to convince my bosses to get Macs for the artists here.

I created a proposal and things are moving smoothly. But I realize it might be a better situation here because We need the performance for the work load we go through. What exactly do you need the Mac for that Windows can't do? I also had to show them (in numbers) how it was going to benefit them (saving time and money).

 

[Sky Blue]

If this is the first Mac in the company, they're probably not going to go for it. The MBP is a lot more expensive then the HP. If you're going to use the Windows side for work stuff, where's the benefit?
is it your budget or theirs?

Luckily, where I work we have Macs + PCs, and I look after the Macs

 

[texas2001]

We We Don't Use Macs in Our Company

It all boils down to hardware support. when the machine's hardware breaks(and it will sooner or later), HP and Dell will come on site to repair Apple wont. Apple sends you a box and several days later you get your repaired machine. On our critical desktops (developers and such) they have four hour warranties meaning Dell or HP will be here in four hours with parts in hand to fix the machine.

Until Apple has enterprise level support, they will find it very hard to make it into the business world.

 

[Squonk]

Here you go, the display on that hp is woefully old:
17" Widescreen TFT 1440 x 900 ( WXGA+ )

And the MBP 17" is
17-inch (viewable) widescreen
1680 x 1050 resolution

Why bother getting a 17" with only 1440x900 res.

Also, the HP is a 2.0 and the MBP would be a 2.4GHz.

Ignoring the screen issue, that HP has a lot going for it at that price.

EDIT: Perhaps consider a refurb to help offset the cost?

 

[topgunn]

It all boils down to hardware support. when the machine's hardware breaks(and it will sooner or later), HP and Dell will come on site to repair Apple wont. Apple sends you a box and several days later you get your repaired machine. On our critical desktops (developers and such) they have four hour warranties meaning Dell or HP will be here in four hours with parts in hand to fix the machine.

Until Apple has enterprise level support, they will find it very hard to make it into the business world.

I am an IT Director and we have 50 or so Dell/Gateway/HP's and 5 Macs. Last year, one of our iMacs stopped reading/writing DVD's so I called Apple. We had Apple Care on the iMac and it was 1.5 years old. Apple sent a technician out (contracted 3rd party) to fix it 3 days later. They never requested that I mail it to them or that I take it into an Apple store of which I have 3 in a 20 mile radius. In the next 5 years, we will likely be running 20 more Macs than we are now.

 

[Domofloge]

Ok. As others have replied, in the business world, apple's support is pretty crummy compared to that of Dell and HP alike. So... that is why IT (even though their suggestion is pretty much useless) is prob. leaning towards the PC. However, i would still say push the MBP just b/c you want it. Push all of its Pro's (no pun intended) and hopefully all goes well... ending with them hooking you up with a sweeeeeeeeet MBP.

Good luck!

 

[Sonicjay]

If you are ASKING the IT folks, you're sunk. They wield small power viciously. You either need to TELL them, or go to someone who can TELL them. Your boss, etc.

That's an amusing generalization..

I'm the senior netadmin here at my company, and folks are excited to find out that I'm a Mac guy, and that I will support them. In fact, my CIO has taken interest in my love of the Macs, and asked me if I'd be interested in heading up a test group of deploying Macbooks for our mobile users. He's interested in the following aspects:

* less support required / stability
* ability to encrypt the whole HDD without add-ons (this is critical for us)
* VNC/Remote Desktop for supporting users remotely, etc, as in Windows
* ease of use
* all of our key remote connection methods are supported (Citrix, Cisco CPN, etc) as they are in Windows
* Office, Acrobat, etc are available (obviously)

As far as the generalizations though, a lot of IT people turn away from Macs simply because they don't know anything about them (and instead just go with the ignorant assumption that they're "just good for graphics and stuff"). Without having a person familiar with MacOS in IT, the perception is higher support costs, due to having to learn/train to support a second platform, or simply the inability to support you if something goes awry. Find a cool person in IT and talk him/her into buying a Mac; once you have Mac guy on the "inside", it's a lot easier

 

[texas2001]

I'm gald they were able to get to you in three days. Glad the machine wasn't down. Anywho, a recent Computerworld article said enterprise support is the biggest obsticle for Apple. They should provide parts and service the next business day at a minimum.

 

[Stampyhead]

...for all intensive purposes I'd be running a windows PC.

I think I see your problem. You said "for all intensive purposes" rather than "for all intents and purposes." IT people are real nazis about correct word usage and won't give in to your requests if you don't speak proper English.
Ok, I'm just kidding. I think CashGap had the right idea, though. Convince whomever makes the decisions and they can force IT to comply with your request.

 

[Sonicjay]

I think I see your problem. You said "for all intensive purposes" rather than "for all intents and purposes." IT people are real nazis about correct word usage and won't give in to your requests if you don't speak proper English.

lol

 

[forsey]

All good points

Star Trek - now that's funny. My previous IT guys were more South Park - but that was a start up. I'm guessing these guys are split between Guitar Hero and World of Warcraft.

"Asking" is an issue but somewhat fun to watch play out...even if it means no MBP. What scares me is that my IT group appears to lack the understanding.

They brought up the support issue - I told them that will become moot if we ever hire graphics in-house and without trying to sound too condescending - told them that it's okay to learn new things in IT.

Seems as though it's about changing the way the group sees Macs. Here's the part you'll all love - IT Director has a MBP at home but apparently doesn't want his team to have to do anything new.

Thanks for the advice though. This is an old debate but the replies are helpful.

 

[tcoleman]

I am an IT Director and we have 50 or so Dell/Gateway/HP's and 5 Macs. Last year, one of our iMacs stopped reading/writing DVD's so I called Apple. We had Apple Care on the iMac and it was 1.5 years old. Apple sent a technician out (contracted 3rd party) to fix it 3 days later. They never requested that I mail it to them or that I take it into an Apple store of which I have 3 in a 20 mile radius. In the next 5 years, we will likely be running 20 more Macs than we are now.

Are you kidding? Three days? That's never going to cut it in the enterprise support world. When I have an issue with my laptop at work, we have a Dell technician here the next day (sometimes the same day).

 

[Squonk]

Are you kidding? Three days? That's never going to cut it in the enterprise support world. When I have an issue with my laptop at work, we have a Dell technician here the next day (sometimes the same day).

And for that support you pay extra, right? I think that is great to offer that and Apple needs to do that! I remember buying 4 hour response time from Digital for our file servers. Apple needs to offer enterprise friendly support options. That is a huge barrier for many environments. And it is a PROFIT making venture!

They can call it The Jobs Squad. They all wear Steve-wear and drive Mini Coopers!

 

[yellow]

Can they support it if it goes belly up?

Probably not.

 

[BanjoBanker]

Company size

In an earlier incarnation I worked for a top 10 National Bank. They handled all of their own IT repairs in house. Had the staff and kept some comman problems parts around. Current employer uses Dell's next day turnaround support and it is pricey. My desk top has had all sorts of parts replaced trying to make it work consistently. I have Apple Pro Care for my personal MB and the wife's MBP. I have called with a problem, trotted off to the Apple store and returned home with all fixed. The same/next day support might not be an issue if you have an Apple store nearby.

 

[Gelfin]

It's not really a great solution, but if you're really adamant about having a MBP, there's always the option to buy it on your own dime. That's what I've always done rather than have the argument, and then it's my laptop, which I happen to bring into the office and do work on. I might prefer to own my own laptop even if work offered, actually. You might need to prod somebody in IT to add its Windows installation to your domain, but that's a much easier sell because there isn't a dollar sign associated with it.

 

[kdawg]

You need a valid point

Is there any part of OS X, or the software that runs on os x that would make you more productive or life easier? I’d use that as your arguments… Otherwise there is no valid argument for why you need a 17” MPB other than you want it… That never works… Trust me. I am the IT Administrator. Don’t hate me as I usually get my people things they want as it makes them happy…. It’s the damn bean counters who always get in my way.

Usually if you can get things approved through accounting then IT will have less of an issue… Unless they refuse to support it… But I always like new gadgets to play with. Of course I’d probably request one myself… To “learn” with.

 

[forsey]

Is there any part of OS X, or the software that runs on os x that would make you more productive or life easier? I’d use that as your arguments… Otherwise there is no valid argument for why you need a 17” MPB other than you want it… That never works… Trust me. I am the IT Administrator. Don’t hate me as I usually get my people things they want as it makes them happy…. It’s the damn bean counters who always get in my way.

Usually if you can get things approved through accounting then IT will have less of an issue… Unless they refuse to support it… But I always like new gadgets to play with. Of course I’d probably request one myself… To “learn” with.

Good point.

I'm also the only one with Office 2007. I got it for analysis and reporting features to create client-pretty scorecards, etc. and to handle more rows columns to quickly deal with excel files we get from our clients that send 120K records in 2 excel tabs. They let me be the business-end tester for that.

That's a good road to go down - business testing.

 

[kaltsasa]

• 17" Widescreen TFT 1440 x 900

Garbage monitor on that HP.

 

[pr5owner]

you realize that HP is like half the price of a 17" MBP right?
actaully its LESS than half the price.

also HP has a longer warranty and better support. HP support is global, there are HP repair centers EVERYWHERE in the world, they also have onsite support EVERYWHERE in the world. does apple have that?

Looks isnt everything... sure your mac looks better, but it aint cost effective nor is it fully compatible with exsisting infrastructures in most companies.

 

[Bambeezer]

Like the some of the others have said, it's all about support. I support over 10,000 desktops and I've been burned before by making exceptions to please a customer. We have very strict support rules to make our environment manageable. Our designers use Macs, but they are the only ones approved to use them now. My goal is to eventually get to a point where we don't care who orders a Mac, but that day is a long ways off.

I'm looking forward to learning more about mac support in the enterprise at Macworld. Hopefully I'll be able to say yes to more customers like yourself in the future.