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Help with configuring home network

ervus

ervus

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 3, 2020
439
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I have 3 computers that I would like to network together at home to share files, VNC, etc. The 3 computers all have Mac OS X 10.4.11 and are as follows: G4 desktop with ethernet, G4 Mac Mini with ethernet and Airport, and a G4 PowerBook with Airport.

So I can connect the desktop and Mini with an ethernet cable, and get them talking by using DHCP and "Internet Sharing." I can also get the Mini and PowerBook talking by Airport using similar settings. But when I try to get all 3 talking at the same time I can't find the right settings. The ping command just sits forever, like it's trying to look up a name or something. Is is possible to have Airport and ethernet active at the same time in this scenario?

What would be the manual TCP/IP settings for this home network? Do the ethernet and Airport need to have the same or different subnet masks?
 
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ervus said:
But when I try to get all 3 talking at the same time I can't find the right settings.
Click to expand...
If your computers talked via Airport and also via cable network, but not together, you have probably on your router settings different VLANs ( i.e. cable lan and wifi are in different networks with insulated traffic ).
I am suspicious that your problems are connested with home router configuration.

How is looking your home network topology? Or, what is your home router network settings? Can you share it?
And if you cannot share it, try o connect all three Macs to Ethernet cable.
 
Thanks for the replies. So I guess I'm asking the Mini to be a router? Do I need to install the Server version of Mac OS X to get this working?

So the network topology is: 3 computers, 1 ethernet cable, and WiFI (airport cards). As I mentioned, I can get one connection at a time to work, but not both at the same time. I've tried the "Internet Sharing" option as well as creating a computer-to-computer network.

With "manual" TCP/IP settings I should not need a router or DNS, right?
 
Maybe a simple diagram would show what I'm trying:

Desktop ethernet: Mini ethernet: 192.168.0.1 <----wire---> 192.168.0.2 Mini AirPort: PowerBook AirPort: 192.168.0.3 <-- WiFi --> 192.168.0.4

On the WiFi end, there are two ways I can get that link to work. One is "Internet Sharing" and the other is computer-to-computer:

MakeNet.png
 
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And all devices are configured with the same network mask (255.255.255.0)?

I know in later versions of macOS, you can set a Service Order on the network ports. In Tiger, I think it is Network Port Configurations. On the mini, did you try System Preferences > Network, and in the Show drop-down, select Network Port Configurations. Are both Built-in Ethernet and WiFi selected? In what order do they appear?
 
I was searching and I think the problem is similar to other cases where a computer has more than one network interface. So in my case the Mini has ethernet and AirPort devices, en0 and en1. I read that each device should have a separate subnet, so I tried setting them to 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.1.1, with masks of 255.255.0.0. Now, as you say, whichever is set as the preferred port by the order of the list in System Preferences, that is the one which works. If I change the order, then the other one works. Just not both at the same time.

I'm thinking I need to add a simple route command that will direct the traffic for each subnet to the correct device. Here is a linux example I found:

Code: 
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
10.10.19.0      *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
192.168.1.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth1
default         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth1
 
At the risk of being sassy, you could just buy the $40 travel router and simplify the whole set up.
 
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Bigwaff said:
At the risk of being sassy, you could just buy the $40 travel router and simplify the whole set up.
Click to expand...
I'd also suggest a hub or a switch. These can literally be found at the Goodwill for $10 or so. That way, router ports are freed up and the hub or switch takes care of packet transfer.

Trying to 'manual IP/subnet' all this is just a lot of hassle. Routers are cheap.
 
ervus said:
Desktop ethernet: Mini ethernet: 192.168.0.1 <----wire---> 192.168.0.2 Mini AirPort: PowerBook AirPort: 192.168.0.3 <-- WiFi --> 192.168.0.4

On the WiFi end, there are two ways I can get that link to work. One is "Internet Sharing" and the other is computer-to-computer:
Click to expand...
In this diagram I am missing how this all connected to internet.
I am not sure how MacOS X network sharing works internally. But probably setting "Internet Sharing" means that Mini routing the traffic, i.e. acts like router.

In such case, there should be different networks, like:
192.168.0.1 <----wire---> 192.168.0.2
192.168.2.3 <-- WiFi --> 192.168.2.4

Where in schema is your internet connection? Home router? Are you connected by cable with 192.168.0.x address? What is IP of your home router ( i.e. default gateway ).
Or maybe I am not understand well, and you want to connect only these three computers without internet?

If you have this hypotethical topology:
Internet router ( 192.168.0.1 ) ---
--- cable ---- Mini ( 192.168.0.2 )
--- cable ---- G4 desktop ( 192.168.0.2 )
it is one network, with address 192.168.0.x

Mini --- wifi ---- Powerbook on Mini Wifi ( Mini wifi is different network than Home router wifi )
It is second network with different address 192.168.2.x
I.e. Mini wifi = 192.168.2.1, Powerbook = 192.168.2.2
Mini must have default gateway setting = 192.168.1.1 ( router address )
Powerbook must have default gateway 192.168.2.1 ( mini address )

you can send me your home network schema via PM, and I will check howto do it.

 
Thank you for the detailed post! Sorry for not explaining the setup properly. I simply want to connect 3 computers--no internet, no hubs, base stations, etc. So imagine a clean slate, and here is the question:

Hardware: 3 computers, 1 ethernet cable
Mission: connect them together

I was able read enough about networking to get it working. It was fun to learn new stuff and put existing hardware to work. Now I can ping any of the 3 computers from each other. I can VNC between them, and importantly I can watch movies from the desktop RAID without wires, while on the couch.

This piece of an article was helpful, as it explained how to get subnets talking and how a gateway works:

gateway.png
 
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U making a lot of work for yourself. These days ISPs bundle a mini ethernet switch, wifi router and modem in one box, oftenly called the GATEWAY. Nobody use static IP unless for special purposes. The Gateway provides DHCP and DNS functions to a standard network.
 
ervus said:
Thank you for the detailed post! Sorry for not explaining the setup properly. I simply want to connect 3 computers--no internet, no hubs, base stations, etc. So imagine a clean slate, and here is the question:

Hardware: 3 computers, 1 ethernet cable
Mission: connect them together

I was able read enough about networking to get it working. It was fun to learn new stuff and put existing hardware to work. Now I can ping any of the 3 computers from each other. I can VNC between them, and importantly I can watch movies from the desktop RAID without wires, while on the couch.

This piece of an article was helpful, as it explained how to get subnets talking and how a gateway works:
Click to expand...
Ok, I understand now. Only three computers without internet access.
Of course, simplest ( from configuration point of view ) solution is connect all three to small ethernet switch and use one network: address 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3. Default gateway is not needed, as there is no other network.

If you can use only this three computers without switch, it is also possible with two networks.
In you configuration from post #5 I changed IP adresses and you should have:
on G4 desktop:
IP address: 192.168.0.2
ip route add 192.168.1.0/24 via 192.168.0.1
... it says that other network with address 192.168.1.0 is somewhere behind Mac Mini (192.168.0.1) and send all it's traffic here

Mac mini:
cable ethernet IP address: 192.168.0.1
wifi IP address: 192.168.1.1
Mac Mini should act as router. Both networks 192.168.0.0 and 192.168.1.0 are directy visible from Mini, so there is no need for ip route add. But we must enable packet forwarding between interfaces. In linux we can do it with setting /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward value to 1.
In MacOS X I am not sure, you have to use google, but you can try both settings "Internet Sharing" and "computer-to-computer". In any case, there will be shell analogue to linux command.
I found on web for MacOS X sysctl -w net.inet.ip.forwarding=1, but you should try if it is works.
You also take a look to your firewall rules, but if you not touch it, default state should work.

Powerbook:
wifi IP address: 192.168.1.2
ip route add 192.168.0.0/24 via 192.168.1.1

I hope it will work. Sorry I cannot test it myselves as only MacOS X I have is on Powermac Quad, on all other powermacs there are linux and MorphOS.
 
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