Horrendous experience upgrading the PowerMac G5

[netsrot39]

Hi guys, about 3 months ago I bought my first PowerMac G5 (Late 05 model, DC 2.0 GHz) and I really liked it since day one. In the course of the last 2 months I upgraded it to 16 GB RAM, a 256 MB Nvidia Geforce 6600 and a 256 GB SSD as well as a 3 TB HD for data. Bluetooth and WiFi dongles can be had for little money so I purchased a Belkin bluetooth dongle and an Edimax wireless dongle. So far so good. I'm pleased with the performance and all but I really wanted to max the thing out even more.

On Ebay I acquired a 2.5 GHz processor card (originally from the Quad Core G5) which I wanted to put into the machine. 4 hours of pulling my hair out and screwing in and out the CPU back and forth (all according to the Apple Service Manual) and the LB would only give me a red CPU checkstop light. I really thought I killed my Mac :-( The next day I put back in the original CPU and I was so happy to hear that start up chime again. It lives to die another day. Perhaps I had bad luck with that Ebay seller and he sent me a faulty CPU but what are your experiences with swapping the CPUs in the PowerMac G5?

So the story doesn't end here. As I've written, I was really happy that my G5 still works since I honestly invested almost 200€ in it. Another part that I ordered from Ebay was a PCIe 4 port USB hub (I put that in the same day when I was performing the CPU swap). It took me quite some time to find a card that is Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5 compatible but in the end I was able to find one. So I had my G5 up and running again only to have it kernel panicking every 10 to 15 minutes. I initially was thinking that I messed up the original 2 GHz processor even though I really handled it carefully. I was mad and afraid to possibly only have a 20 kilo pile of metal junk sitting on my table instead of my beloved G5. Luckily as soon as I pulled the PCIe card out the G5 was working again flawlessly but the 30€ card I bought on Ebay can be considered as burnt money. I would really like to know about your experiences with PCIe upgrades in the G5. IMO the selection isn't wide at all (due to the fact that PPC support ends with Leopard) and many are prone to produce errors from what I've experienced and read.

Now the kernel panic report always stated the same:

panic(cpu 0 caller 0x00CDF288): "AppleDART::mapAddr(0x00070004) not mapped for I/O\n"@AppleDART.cpp:603
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
      Backtrace:
         0x0009CC88 0x0009D63C 0x00029DA0 0x00CDF288 0x00365AA4 0x006A3EFC 0x0069E550 0x0069E918
         0x0035FB9C 0x0037A074 0x0065C928 0x0037564C 0x000B63F4 0x000B48B8
      Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
         com.apple.driver.AppleMPIC(1.5.3)@0x65a000->0x65dfff
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.6)@0x646000
         com.apple.driver.AppleUSBOHCI(3.4.6)@0x69a000->0x6a7fff
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.6)@0x646000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(3.5.2)@0x512000
         com.apple.driver.AppleMacRiscPCI(3.4.0)@0xcd9000->0xce2fff
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.6)@0x646000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
   Exception state (sv=0x6e90c780)
      PC=0x948DC86C; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x5CFDD000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9495BBEC; R1=0xBFFFF910; XCP=0x00000014 (0x500 - Ext int)

I had only 2 dongles (WiFi & Bluetooth) attached to it but even without anything attached it would crash eventually. Does anybody know what could be causing this. I haven't hooked up the PCIe to any additional power source id est it is only powered by the slot.

Maybe someone could point me in the right direction regarding my PCIe card issue. I would really like to attempt another CPU swap since I'm certain that I'm not the one at fault here (I've done many Mac repairs sucessfully) but my upgrade experience so far has been mixed. What sucks the most was the wasted time for troubleshooting parts that have been defect or incompatible in the first place although advertised otherwise ... I'd appreciate suggestions and your opinions.

 

[eyoungren]

I think you are trying to put things in that the Mac is not equipped to handle.

I may be off base, but the 2.5 processor from the Quad comes from a liquid cooled Mac. The Dual Cores were 2.0 and 2.3 (I have the 2.3DC in addition to my Quad). I don't believe the board is going to support 2.5 and on top of that, your Mac is not liquid cooled.

As to the PCI card, it may be down to a driver but I am wondering…why?

The G5s are USB 2.0. Get an external USB 2.0 hub. Or is this card USB 3.0? If it is, that may be the problem. I don't believe 3.0 is supported, even if the card physically fits.

Finally, was cost the reason you got a BT dongle? I use on on my Quad even though I have the internal Airport/BT card (and the ramp). It works much smoother than the internal card for some reason.

But I use the internal on my 2.3DC. I know the ramp alone is expensive. Perhaps that's why you got the dongle?

 

[Jubadub]

It took me quite some time to find a card that is Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5 compatible but in the end I was able to find one.

What was the name of the card?

My PCIe upgrades never game me issues. Also beware what you read out there online (the irony, I know ), there's a lot of completely unfounded and false rumors out there, for these machines and beyond.

My PCIe upgrades so far were GPUs (OEM and flashed) and 4-port internal SATA II expansions (Sonnet Tempo E4i), they all worked flawlessly since day 1, though the Sonnet one needs drivers to recognize drives bigger than 2TB on both 10.4/5 (required at least for ADB-formatted drives instead of GPT), and my flashed X1950XT needed the official ATI X1900 drivers only under Tiger. I also got the stock GeForce 6600 (non-LE version), and Quadro FX 4500. All working fine and dandy. The GeForce 6600 is plugged in on slot 3 for now for more monitors (up to 8 monitors are possible in this machine, technically).

I know there's supposed to be working SATA III and USB 3.0 cards out there, but they are very specific. I think threads for those exist out there in the internet. I think I had found something in German about it. I only plan to dive into that years later, after I get other things moving along. Certainly not a priority.

Also, like was said, I really don't think that's a good move at all, to use the 2.5GHz processor on that machine. It's really asking for trouble. What you should do is to find the G5 Quad itself, and move all the expansions and upgrades you bought to it. They are 100% compatible.

 

[redheeler]

I think you are trying to put things in that the Mac is not equipped to handle.

I may be off base, but the 2.5 processor from the Quad comes from a liquid cooled Mac. The Dual Cores were 2.0 and 2.3 (I have the 2.3DC in addition to my Quad). I don't believe the board is going to support 2.5 and on top of that, your Mac is not liquid cooled.

A Late 2005 which shipped with a dual-core 2.0 GHz can be upgraded to a dual-core 2.3 GHz without issue. The logic board is not tied to a specific clock speed, so theoretically it should work even with a single dual-core 2.5 GHz pulled from a Quad.

Also, the Quad requires liquid cooling because it has two processors. Just one shouldn't run hot enough to necessitate it.

 

[eyoungren]

A Late 2005 which shipped with a dual-core 2.0 GHz can be upgraded to a dual-core 2.3 GHz without issue. The logic board is not tied to a specific clock speed, so theoretically it should work even with a single dual-core 2.5 GHz pulled from a Quad.

Also, the Quad requires liquid cooling because it has two processors. Just one shouldn't run hot enough to necessitate it.

Thank you for the clarification. I tried to qualify my statements because I wasn't sure. Now I know.

 

[Jubadub]

I'd expect firmware issues or, if that's not applicable, cooling issues, because although a Quad has liquid cooling because of there being 2 processors, that single 2.5GHz processor will still get "Quad-hot", but by itself alone. By that, what I mean is that the peak temperature may still be too high without liquid cooling, even if there's only 1 processor instead of 2.

I dunno. I'd be very wary of doing that. But you're right @redheeler in that it still should work in theory... But I'd be very concerned about doing that, personally.

 

[davisdelo]

I think you would be doing yourself a favor by looking for era specific pci-e cards. It will take a bit of research but it's better than wasting even more time and money. I find a good place to look for upgrades is the old macworld.com site on the internet archive.

 

[AphoticD]

I can confirm an upgrade of 2.0 DC to 2.3 DC works fine and is a simple drop in replacement - I replaced the whole CPU module, heatsink and all. The system bus then clocked up automatically to 1.15GHz. On my G5, there wasn’t even a need to run CPU calibration, but I did so anyway.

In theory, a single 2.5 DC CPU card should work on the 2.0 DC or 2.3 DC logic board. Though it’s not something I have tried (yet).

 

[netsrot39]

I think you are trying to put things in that the Mac is not equipped to handle.

As to the PCI card, it may be down to a driver but I am wondering…why?

The G5s are USB 2.0. Get an external USB 2.0 hub. Or is this card USB 3.0? If it is, that may be the problem. I don't believe 3.0 is supported, even if the card physically fits.

The PCIe card I was using doesn't require drivers (according to the manufacturer). They stated that it is natively supported from 10.4.8 onwards. The card itself is USB 2.0.

Finally, was cost the reason you got a BT dongle? I use on on my Quad even though I have the internal Airport/BT card (and the ramp). It works much smoother than the internal card for some reason.

But I use the internal on my 2.3DC. I know the ramp alone is expensive. Perhaps that's why you got the dongle?

The reason I'm using USB rather than the internal AirPort option are costs. I'm quite happy with the USB option it does everything I want it to do and most of the time I hook the machine up by Ethernet anyway.

What was the name of the card?

It is this one that I got on Ebay: https://www.ebay.de/itm/4-Port-Hi-S...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I can confirm an upgrade of 2.0 DC to 2.3 DC works fine and is a simple drop in replacement - I replaced the whole CPU module, heatsink and all. The system bus then clocked up automatically to 1.15GHz. On my G5, there wasn’t even a need to run CPU calibration, but I did so anyway.

In theory, a single 2.5 DC CPU card should work on the 2.0 DC or 2.3 DC logic board. Though it’s not something I have tried (yet).

I ordered another 2.5 GHz processor card for around 30 bucks. Even cheaper than the one of the first seller (I'm returning his card BTW). Just in case so I don't go mad again I'm getting the 2.3 GHz processor card as well if the 2.5 GHz one decides to strike.

I think you would be doing yourself a favor by looking for era specific pci-e cards. It will take a bit of research but it's better than wasting even more time and money. I find a good place to look for upgrades is the old macworld.com site on the internet archive.

Could you suggest me any? Or where am I ought to look exactly?

Anways, I'm just happy my 2.0 GHz PMG5 works without any issues again after the attempted upgrade(s). I'll try another CPU swap as stated before but I think I can live without any PCIe upgrades (it would be nice however to have more USB ports). I just really like the PowerMac G5, it is really esthetic and feels as fast as a modern Mac if you tweak the system. I just enjoy getting work done on it and use it for multimedia purposes so naturally I want to squeeze out its potential

 

[bunnspecial]

Admittedly I've not ever attempted what you're saying, and I've also never had the CPU out of my 2.0ghz DC.

With that said, several of the screws that hold down the 2.5ghz card are actually power rails, as it's a fairly "hungry" card. I wonder if the issue is that the 2.0 and 2.3 just aren't set up to properly power a 2.5 card.

I've found the 2.5s to be a bit touchier than any others I've worked with. I actually managed to kill a set in repasting, and ended up just buying a complete quad CPU module(2x 2.5 cards still attached to the LCS) to replace it.

 

[davisdelo]

Could you suggest me any? Or where am I ought to look exactly?

The Sonnet cards are a good bet. I have their USB 2.0 in my G5. It works flawlessly. You can find them on eBay for about 30 bucks.

 

[philgxxd]

Just saw that video on a Youtube channel i follow so the late 2005 dual core models can be upgraded with even the 2.5Ghz processor from the quad.

 

[desantii]

Admittedly I've not ever attempted what you're saying, and I've also never had the CPU out of my 2.0ghz DC.

With that said, several of the screws that hold down the 2.5ghz card are actually power rails, as it's a fairly "hungry" card. I wonder if the issue is that the 2.0 and 2.3 just aren't set up to properly power a 2.5 card.

I've found the 2.5s to be a bit touchier than any others I've worked with. I actually managed to kill a set in repasting, and ended up just buying a complete quad CPU module(2x 2.5 cards still attached to the LCS) to replace it.

Can confirm it works fine with 2.5ghz cards... just upgraded from 2,0 DC to 2.5DC

 

[netsrot39]

The post I wrote in 2019 didn't age well and I have to change my mind about upgrading a G5, it actually is quite pleasant and fun. I haven't replied to my thread in over 2 years but what happened later that year was that I completely disassembled my G5 since it was so damn dirty inside, like that dirty when you fumble around in the hood of a car. I came across another A1177 G5 that year for a very good price so I bought it. It was a 2.3 GHz Dual Core model and unfortunately as dirty inside as my first 2.0 GHz Dual Core. So guess what I did? I disassembled it as well. In 2020 I wanted to rebuild my two G5s but didn't quite remember where everything goes so I bought a third A1177 G5 for reference and spare parts ? (another 2.3 GHz Dual Core). Eventually I didn't have time in 2020 to rebuild my G5s, neither did I have the time for them in 2021. I recently had 2 weeks off university (Easter vacation) which I partly used to clean all the parts again and finally reassemble my G5s and I have to admit it was quite fun and a learning experience. I now have two very clean G5 A1177 (2.3 GHz & 2.0 GHz) with fresh thermal paste and some nice PCIe card upgrades that are fully working. I even put 2 SSDs and shoe-horned a hard disk (hence third drive) into my G5s by using a regular PATA cable (unlike Apples IDE cable this one has connectors for master and slave). I'll post some pictures and details in a separate thread but the reason I'm replying to my thread is to ask if we already have a G5 club in this forum (like Club 17, Club 12, etc.) ?

If yes I'll gladly join, if not I'll probably open one ?

 

[sos_nz]

That's a lot of G5 Powermacs! My wife looks askance with just one A1177 sitting under the desk, along with the SE/30 on the desk.

Great to read you've got a good, solid machine up and running. I enjoyed cleaning up my A1177 and upgrading it to a flashed x1900XT, 128GB SSD, 16GB of RAM (that was a pain - they're very picky about the right modules in the right slots), running both 10.4.8 and 10.5.9 (Sorbet Leopard). I had to buy a new CPU fan unit, since it was missing from the unit I bought.

 

[weckart]

Rather than just acquiring more G5s because you couldn't remember where bits went, why not just look at iFixit's various disassembly guides and supplement that with Apple's Hardware Manual for your particular model? Those would have cost you $0 and would have taken up no space whatsoever. It does seem a bizarre route to take.

 

[netsrot39]

Rather than just acquiring more G5s because you couldn't remember where bits went, why not just look at iFixit's various disassembly guides and supplement that with Apple's Hardware Manual for your particular model? Those would have cost you $0 and would have taken up no space whatsoever. It does seem a bizarre route to take.

It does seem a bizarre route yeah but I was thinking a third one for spare parts wouldn't be that bad. Also it wasn't expensive and I like to keep some spare parts around of the machines I have (it has come in handy in the past). The parts of my third G5 (which would also fully work if reassembled) are now in a box since 2x Power Mac G5s are enough for my needs. I hope I am allowed to say this in here but in order to honour my third G5 its case will be converted to an ATX case using the Laser Hive Kit. The original parts remain as a spare so nothing gets destroyed really. Fun fact: While I got the first two G5s locally, I bought the third one from a British guy off Shpock. I still can't believe that the G5 survived shipping from the UK to Austria. No damage to the case and the interior, well almost ... the only thing that broke are the plastic clips of the front heatsink but they can easily be replaced. In comparison to what I'm reading on this forum regarding shipped G5s I guess I got really lucky and that it was a big gamble (which I won't take anymore)

That's a lot of G5 Powermacs! My wife looks askance with just one A1177 sitting under the desk, along with the SE/30 on the desk.

Great to read you've got a good, solid machine up and running. I enjoyed cleaning up my A1177 and upgrading it to a flashed x1900XT, 128GB SSD, 16GB of RAM (that was a pain - they're very picky about the right modules in the right slots), running both 10.4.8 and 10.5.9 (Sorbet Leopard). I had to buy a new CPU fan unit, since it was missing from the unit I bought.

That is a nice config you have there. I also have 16 GB of RAM in each and the stock Nvidia GeForce 6600 (256 MB) which will soon be upgraded to flashed FX 4500s (I already got 2 with the heatsink on the back, I just have to get and prep my old PC to flash them). Regarding the memory upgrade – I've made a different experience since I used various 2 GB DDR2 sticks that I had lying around (different clock rates and different brands). Both G5s took whatever DIMMs I threw at them and passed the memory test in ASD.

 

[weckart]

I bought the third one from a British guy off Shpock. I still can't believe that the G5 survived shipping from the UK to Austria. No damage to the case and the interior, well almost ...

I'm extremely impressed. Mine didn't even survive shipping 60 miles from Leicester to me without the lower handles buckling in and part of the side panelling shearing out leaving a dangerously sharp surface to catch your hands on. The shipper used a ton of old IDE optical drives to plug in the gaps in the shipping box but to no avail.

 

[Amethyst1]

The shipper used a ton of old IDE optical drives to plug in the gaps in the shipping box but to no avail.

That's the first time I've heard of using these as packaging material. Did they survive at least? ( )

 

[eyoungren]

My wife looks askance with just one A1177 sitting under the desk, along with the SE/30 on the desk.

My wife surrendered over a decade ago.

I do not know why, but at some point we were talking about something else and she says to me "Your computers are like my purses, then, right?" Yes, I said. And that was the end of me having to justify any new Mac. Although she still rolls her eyes when she spots a new one she hasn't seen yet.

For the record, our bedroom closet is full of her purses. Each one suits a mood. Each of my Macs/PCs suits a purpose. It equates.

 

[weckart]

That's the first time I've heard of using these as packaging material. Did they survive at least? ( )

Yes. I was quite taken aback, especially as they added somewhat to the overall weight. There must have been 16-20 of the damn things.

I can't recall for sure how many were still ok. I have a collection of IDE drives in a crate. No idea what exactly their provenance was. I vaguely remember trying a couple from the G5 packaging and finding issues with them, so they may have used dead drives. They had plenty of corpses at their premises when I turned up. A sky high pile of G5s damaged in transit and now good for scrap among other things.

 

[barracuda156]

A Late 2005 which shipped with a dual-core 2.0 GHz can be upgraded to a dual-core 2.3 GHz without issue. The logic board is not tied to a specific clock speed, so theoretically it should work even with a single dual-core 2.5 GHz pulled from a Quad.

Also, the Quad requires liquid cooling because it has two processors. Just one shouldn't run hot enough to necessitate it.

There are even people who managed to engineer air-cooled Quad.