How competitive will Apple TV be to Next Gen Consoles?

[TallManNY]

So how competitive do you think the Apple TV will be to PS4 and XBone? The A8x chip overclocked to take advantage of the continuous power access and better thermal profile of a standalone set-top box should be pretty powerful. The CPU in and XBone runs at 1.75 ghz which doesn't seem too fast. But then there are eight cores and I assume all games are optimized to use the multi-cores. Then we've got the GPU. But that is a GPU from 2013 and it doesn't seem like the fastest one out there. Seems more like a budget GPU that is optimized again. Even at launch a good PC GPU was going to beat the performance of a console. Now that it has been almost two years since launch, can Apple put out something cheap and comparable? Will Apple even bother?

I've had plenty of fun with games with much lower resolutions than the current AAA titles. So pure graphic power is hardly key for enjoyment. But if I'm going to devote time to something, it might as well be on a good device. So will I be buying my games for my XBone or for my Apple TV?

 

[gkarris]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-George Santayana

Pippin anyone?

Something tells me you WON'T be seeing Halo, Titanfall, or Gears of War on AppleTV, or Killzone, Legend Of Zelda, Starfox, or Mario World 3D for that matter...

Disney Infinity and Skylanders, most definitely - will sell more figures...

 

[Taustin Powers]

Well yeah, of course you won't see any of the console exclusive IP's on the Apple TV.

I can see the new Apple TV bringing casual gaming to a wider audience, especially at that price point and with the other features. AAA gaming I don't see on an Apple TV...

 

[0098386]

Apple trying to get mobile games on the big screen just reminds me of that bit in Futurama.

 

[gkarris]

Well yeah, of course you won't see any of the console exclusive IP's on the Apple TV.

I can see the new Apple TV bringing casual gaming to a wider audience, especially at that price point and with the other features. AAA gaming I don't see on an Apple TV...

A $149 or $199 pricepoint for a wider audience?

At $200 you can get a used Wii AND a used PS3 or XB360 plus Gamestop is giving 5 FREE used games under $10 with the purchase of one.

The only thing these systems don't offer is access to the Apple Ecosystem if you purchased iTunes/iOS content.

I highly doubt that developers will give you for a previous purchase the AppleTV version of a game/app at this point in time. Plus, I would imagine an Apple "gaming controller" will yet add even more to the price.

The big 3 Console Gaming companies would be foolish to put their IP's or even their older games on the system.

Apple would be very foolish to charge more than $129. (Hope it will be at this price point).

At $199 it is relegated to a "trendy status" box that a trendy couple (man with beard and both with tattoo's who have Apple Watches) come home to after their long drive in their Hybrid...

 

[Taustin Powers]

A $149 or $199 pricepoint for a wider audience?

At $200 you can get a used Wii AND a used PS3 or XB360 plus Gamestop is giving 5 FREE used games under $10 with the purchase of one.

The only thing these systems don't offer is access to the Apple Ecosystem if you purchased iTunes/iOS content.

OP asked about competing with the current gen of consoles, not PS360.

 

[TallManNY]

A $149 or $199 pricepoint for a wider audience?

At $200 you can get a used Wii AND a used PS3 or XB360 plus Gamestop is giving 5 FREE used games under $10 with the purchase of one.

The only thing these systems don't offer is access to the Apple Ecosystem if you purchased iTunes/iOS content.

I highly doubt that developers will give you for a previous purchase the AppleTV version of a game/app at this point in time. Plus, I would imagine an Apple "gaming controller" will yet add even more to the price.

The big 3 Console Gaming companies would be foolish to put their IP's or even their older games on the system.

Apple would be very foolish to charge more than $129. (Hope it will be at this price point).

At $199 it is relegated to a "trendy status" box that a trendy couple (man with beard and both with tattoo's who have Apple Watches) come home to after their long drive in their Hybrid...

None of those devices will stream movies and TV shows as well as Apple's next generation device. I'm really doubting anyone is going to buy the Apple TV primarily as a gaming device. I'm curious though what the gaming traction will be once it is in the home and the app store is so easily accessible. It is quite possible that Apple TVs will outsell in the U.S. one of the major consoles (not both) during the year after launch. Will that be enough traction for developers to focus high quality games on that device? Maybe not if the Apple customers will only pay $10 for a game as compared to the hardcore games paying $50.

But I know I'm buying at least one of these for the living room. I guess I'm the target market. Your trendy comment hit a little too close to home. I've got a beard and an Apple Watch and my lady has a tattoo. But my car gets 23 miles per gallon on the highway and goes much faster than a hybrid. So at least I'm not entirely in line with your cliche.

 

[mandoman]

I doubt this box will be marketed/positioned as a direct competitor to PS4/XB1. More of a way to play your existing iOS games on the big screen, targeted at the casual gamer.

 

[MRU]

Basically I see it as proof they couldn't get rid of the delay lag making gaming on existing Apple TV from your iPhone or iPad near impossible.

Will there be an audience for a $200 appleTV ? Possibly...

Same as the audience for a $200 Nvidia shield.

I'm not convinced that's anything more than a niche audience - especially as most TV's have smart services built in.

Likewise Apple's choice of content delivery is still pretty meak outside of USA. We still don't have TV shows here years and years later for example ...

 

[z31fanatic]

As competitive as the Fire TV was to consoles which was lets just say close to zero.

 

[TallManNY]

Basically I see it as proof they couldn't get rid of the delay lag making gaming on existing Apple TV from your iPhone or iPad near impossible.

Will there be an audience for a $200 appleTV ? Possibly...

Same as the audience for a $200 Nvidia shield.

I'm not convinced that's anything more than a niche audience - especially as most TV's have smart services built in.

Likewise Apple's choice of content delivery is still pretty meak outside of USA. We still don't have TV shows here years and years later for example ...

Well in the U.S., iTunes has a huge selection. I rent shows from it all the time. I watched Fear the Walking Dead today, for example. $3 well spent in my opinion. Watching the shows on AMC with the commercials is almost insufferable. Though for a show as intense as the Walking Dead, I actually need an intermission.

Anyway, if the Siri works well as a channel changer, then it is worth the $200 just for that and the ability to search the various available channels. The gaming will be an extra for me. I suspect most of my gaming time will be spent on my XBone. But I fear those consoles are going to suffer. They need to sell a lot more units over the next two to three years to be even close to the success of the last generation. I was playing Witcher III today and the graphics on the XBone were not very impressive. Game seems very good though. Developers seem to have done a great job. But the XBone really isn't pushing the pixels in an impressive fashion.

 

[0098386]

None of those devices will stream movies and TV shows as well as Apple's next generation device. I'm really doubting anyone is going to buy the Apple TV primarily as a gaming device. I'm curious though what the gaming traction will be once it is in the home and the app store is so easily accessible. It is quite possible that Apple TVs will outsell in the U.S. one of the major consoles (not both) during the year after launch. Will that be enough traction for developers to focus high quality games on that device? Maybe not if the Apple customers will only pay $10 for a game as compared to the hardcore games paying $50.

But I know I'm buying at least one of these for the living room. I guess I'm the target market. Your trendy comment hit a little too close to home. I've got a beard and an Apple Watch and my lady has a tattoo. But my car gets 23 miles per gallon on the highway and goes much faster than a hybrid. So at least I'm not entirely in line with your cliche.

I don't have an Apple TV, but I do use a PS3 for all my media stuff. With it I can stream videos from any computer in my house, I can play videos off a USB drive, watch DVDs and blurays, watch videos stored on its 1tb internal drive. There's access to the Playstation video store which is okay (but I don't use it). As well as streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, 4oD. I haven't tried this yet but I imagine it'll stream iTunes video purchases too.

The media capabilities of a PS3 are pretty amazing. But it's not marketed as such.

Personally I can't imagine an Apple TV being marketed as a games console just yet, I can foresee them releasing a really neato streaming device that they'll later allow a Wii U style phone+TV combo for some games. And that they'll allow and sell native apps for the Apple TV (ie. a VLC streaming app, that kind of thing).

 

[Suture]

I don't consider an Apple TV and consoles to be in the same category of discussion really. While the iOS (and Android, for that matter) games have gotten much better and more advanced, there's still a noticeable gap in my opinion.

 

[TallManNY]

I don't have an Apple TV, but I do use a PS3 for all my media stuff. With it I can stream videos from any computer in my house, I can play videos off a USB drive, watch DVDs and blurays, watch videos stored on its 1tb internal drive. There's access to the Playstation video store which is okay (but I don't use it). As well as streaming services like Netflix, Amazon, BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, 4oD. I haven't tried this yet but I imagine it'll stream iTunes video purchases too.

The media capabilities of a PS3 are pretty amazing. But it's not marketed as such.

Personally I can't imagine an Apple TV being marketed as a games console just yet, I can foresee them releasing a really neato streaming device that they'll later allow a Wii U style phone+TV combo for some games. And that they'll allow and sell native apps for the Apple TV (ie. a VLC streaming app, that kind of thing).

With the rumors of only 16gb on board storage and almost certainly no USB connection port, it seems gaming is not going to get any focus. There really won't even be much room for casual games on 16gb along with other Apps. Storage will constrain the box from being the mini computer that its CPU would otherwise allow it to be.

I haven't had a PS for a awhile, but I know it does work as a streaming device. Audio control though on the Apple TV should make the experience of streaming much easier. Add in just a simple amount of AI assistance keeping track (on your Apple TV only) of the shows you consistently watch, and the experience will get even better. With many people bing watching shows, I'd say even the simplest AI should be able to figure out that there is a good chance you want to watch the next episode in the show you watched the day before. It is almost shocking that the user interfaces don't tee that up for you when you turn on your TV. Even in a family of four, if the U.I. launched with ten shows teed up, you have to figure that would be right 90% of the time. Apple TV does that already with recently watched and this is very helpful, but you still have to go to TV shows and even then it only tees up about three or four shows.

 

[AFEPPL]

apple tv and next gen consoles shouldn't be uttered in the same sentence.
Its not a games platform and i dont see it becoming such either.

 

[petvas]

The new AppleTV will be something to consider if you are a casual gamer and prefer playing on an iPad instead using a console. Everybody else will not even think about considering the AppleTV for serious gaming.
My PS4 will not be replaced by a new AppleTV.
My current AppleTV though might, if there are enough features to make me upgrade. Not having 4K is a serious omission for me and I am not really excited by what's coming.

 

[gkarris]

I was talking about consoles with likewise features - of course in no way can it compete with the PS4 and XBox One.

Now the rumor is that it will be coming in at $149. This to me means it is competing with the XB360 and PS3 ($179 and $199 when not on sale).

Easier to swallow especially if it comes in at 16 Gig and a nice touch remote. An Apple branded gaming remote for $49 will be a nice also - unless Apple is willing to make their box Nintendo/MS/Sony gaming remote compatible.

 

[Suture]

I don't mind an occasional casual game, but I wouldn't buy an Apple TV just to play games. Personally, I am only interested in movies and streaming media from my iMac.

If I was looking at things from a price standpoint, even then I don't think it works (last gen console vs new ATV); different markets, depths of games. Some probably wouldn't mind playing something like Bioshock on an iOS device, but me, I prefer physical controls still

I could see where the younger kids demographic may be targeted, especially with cross-device usage. But I don't think it will ever get that market penetration that a traditional console could.

I do notice a lot of commercials for online mobile games like Clash of Clans and Game of War. They must be making some serious money. I think these are still considered "casual" games by the masses, but there's certainly a market there, and nothing wrong with more choices.

 

[TallManNY]

I was talking about consoles with likewise features - of course in no way can it compete with the PS4 and XBox One.

Now the rumor is that it will be coming in at $149. This to me means it is competing with the XB360 and PS3 ($179 and $199 when not on sale).

Easier to swallow especially if it comes in at 16 Gig and a nice touch remote. An Apple branded gaming remote for $49 will be a nice also - unless Apple is willing to make their box Nintendo/MS/Sony gaming remote compatible.

I don't think it will compete out of the gate directly with the next gen consoles. But you and others are forgetting that the next gen consoles don't exactly have cutting edge tech in them. They were released in 2013 and the GPUs they put in them then were basically modest models even for 2013. That was how they got the consoles to sell for $400. These were not the best GPUs for 2013 by any means. Now it is 2015 and tech has moved on. Also we don't know how far Apple's tech has moved one. Remember that the 64bit mobile processor for the iPhone caught the entire industry by surprise. It was at least a year ahead of what anyone thought was technically feasible at the mobile level. And it took a full year for Samsung to produce 64bit competitor.

I'm pretty sure that the CPU in the A8x will be comparable to what is in Next Gen consoles. So it is going to be the difference between the GPU in the consoles versus the integrated graphics of the A8x that is going to be the consoles huge advantage. But I'm curious to see how big an advantage it will be.

man I would love it if Apple took the position that control pads are similar to a mouse or a keyboard and that universal standards should apply. But I'm not holding my breadth.

 

[foobarbazqux]

How competitive will it be? Not at all. As far as gaming is concerned, it's just going to be the non-portable equivalent of smartphone gaming. You'd have to have GTA/CoD/AC/FIFA/Madden/etc running on it and at a quality level that's at least as good as an XB1/PS4 for it to have a shot at being competitive in the gaming console market. That's not going to happen. Even Apple must succumb to the laws of physics. There's a reason why gaming consoles are so much bigger than streaming boxes.

I am, however, looking forward to seeing the new AppleTV and what kind of apps/games people make for it but it's not going to be a gaming console. I do think it has a chance at becoming popular with casual/family games however.

They were released in 2013

And the chip that's rumored to be in the next AppleTV, the A8, was only released a year later.

 

[0098386]

I'm pretty sure that the CPU in the A8x will be comparable to what is in Next Gen consoles. So it is going to be the difference between the GPU in the consoles versus the integrated graphics of the A8x that is going to be the consoles huge advantage. But I'm curious to see how big an advantage it will be.

This is a bit silly. If you're going for parity with modern consoles (PS4, Xbox One) then it's going to cost more than the rumoured price. It's going to be a similar size+cost of those systems. Even without a standard HDD and optical drive it'll be huge.

 

[gkarris]

I don't think it will compete out of the gate directly with the next gen consoles. But you and others are forgetting that the next gen consoles don't exactly have cutting edge tech in them. They were released in 2013 and the GPUs they put in them then were basically modest models even for 2013. That was how they got the consoles to sell for $400. These were not the best GPUs for 2013 by any means. Now it is 2015 and tech has moved on. Also we don't know how far Apple's tech has moved one. Remember that the 64bit mobile processor for the iPhone caught the entire industry by surprise. It was at least a year ahead of what anyone thought was technically feasible at the mobile level. And it took a full year for Samsung to produce 64bit competitor.

I'm pretty sure that the CPU in the A8x will be comparable to what is in Next Gen consoles. So it is going to be the difference between the GPU in the consoles versus the integrated graphics of the A8x that is going to be the consoles huge advantage. But I'm curious to see how big an advantage it will be.

man I would love it if Apple took the position that control pads are similar to a mouse or a keyboard and that universal standards should apply. But I'm not holding my breadth.

Hardware ultimately doesn't matter - it is all about the games.

 

[Richdmoore]

I see a bunch of "Dead Trigger/Modern Combat" type games if we get a new Apple TV with an App Store.

In other words, free to play games with timers and other gimmicks to extract money after the fact. Ok graphics, but not as good as the modern consoles.

A couple of factors prevent getting console type games on an Apple TV platform.

First of all, assuming that a new Apple TV would use the current extended MFI controller spec, Xbox 360/PS3 controls will not map perfectly on the Apple TV. (MFI spec does NOT have clickable button on the sticks, this will force makers to remap controls for the Apple TV.) On another forum post, it was the reason given by one of the companies that ports games to the mac for not supporting mfi controls on OS X.

Most importantly, iOS users will not pay $60 for new game, the usual current price paid by Xbox/PS gamers. $10 is considered a premium game in the iOS world, and a bargain game in the console world. That price pressure will limit the investment needed to make Apple TV games the same quality as console games.

I do hope I am wrong, and Apple TV gaming takes off to being a first release platform next to the Xbox/ps consoles. I just don't see how that will happen in the current marketplace.

 

[0098386]

<snip>

I see that too. But the big thing for me is support. Why would I buy a game when a future OS update might break it? (I bought my first iDevice about 4 years ago, on day 1 I purchases a load of games. Most of which don't work on my iPhone 6)
And you could say "computers get lots of updates that sometimes break software/games", except with those there are workarounds because access to the OS isn't limited.

Just a personal reason why I don't buy mobile games. And why I'm happy spending £50 on a game so I can retain access to it long after the system has died.

 

[TallManNY]

How competitive will it be? Not at all. As far as gaming is concerned, it's just going to be the non-portable equivalent of smartphone gaming. You'd have to have GTA/CoD/AC/FIFA/Madden/etc running on it and at a quality level that's at least as good as an XB1/PS4 for it to have a shot at being competitive in the gaming console market. That's not going to happen. Even Apple must succumb to the laws of physics. There's a reason why gaming consoles are so much bigger than streaming boxes.

I am, however, looking forward to seeing the new AppleTV and what kind of apps/games people make for it but it's not going to be a gaming console. I do think it has a chance at becoming popular with casual/family games however.



And the chip that's rumored to be in the next AppleTV, the A8, was only released a year later.

I'm not suggesting they will actually be as good as next gen consoles. Heck the games won't even fit onto 16gb of storage space that Apple is rumored to be providing. But let's not belittle Apple's tech ability for power and minimization. Apple has been able to make some amazing devices much smaller than previously. Apple was able to design an impressive mobile CPU. They've also done impressive and innovative things with thermal control in the Mac Pro. So the pixel pushing power of this thing might surprise you.

Also I don't think the Apple TV has to push as many pixels to be competitive. It just has to push enough pixels so that it provides a good enough gaming experience. Then it will take a bit of market share.

All that said, the rumor that the box is only coming with 16gb of storage really tells me that this thing is really not going to be about gaming. Heck it really isn't going to be that much about apps either with that little storage.