How do people track victims with airtags?

[dorlow]

Ok, I don't understand how people use airtags to track unknowingly victims. For starters, I'm an android guy and don't own anything apple. But, you hear about airtag tracking semi often.

With android, I use Tiles to track my devices. I was seeing on the news today too that Tiles are the same issue. But, it doesn't make sense to me how anyone tracks someone unknowingly with them. The tags don't have a cellular card or GPS in them. They're only Bluetooth. You pair them with your phone. It knows your location because the last place you were connected via Bluetooth, it marks the GPS waypoint using the phone's GPS. If it's not connected to your phone, the airtag or tile has no clue where it's at. Even if it did, it wouldn't have any 4G data to upload the information to a server so someone else would know.

If someone else wanted to put a tile or an airtag to track me, they'd have to plant the tile or airtag in my car or backpack or something and then somehow get my phone, unlock it using my passcode, install the tile or airtag app, pair the tile or airtag to the phone and now they can track me. But, they don't make it sound like that. They make it sound like they just drop the airtag in a victim's car and that's it.

Only thing I could think is airtags just auto connect to all apple phones without asking permission. Then I could see the tracking of unwilling victims possible.

 

[mckinney3]

AirTags have a community find feature After pairing with your phone, and the device is separated (lost), the owner can then place in lost mode. Then EVERY iPhone that pings the device will report the location that the phone was located when pinging the tag.

If the tag “follows” (stays with same iPhone) for two hours then the tag beeps and notifies that iPhone that they have picked up a tag.

So stalking requires that the stalked person has an iPhone and there is a 2 hour window before they are alerted.

 

[dorlow]

AirTags have a community find feature After pairing with your phone, and the device is separated (lost), the owner can then place in lost mode. Then EVERY iPhone that pings the device will report the location that the phone was located when pinging the tag.

If the tag “follows” (stays with same iPhone) for two hours then the tag beeps and notifies that iPhone that they have picked up a tag.

So stalking requires that the stalked person has an iPhone and there is a 2 hour window before they are alerted.

That seems like a very obvious security flaw then. Why isn't apple doing anything to fix it? Seems like they could easily update their code to give an immediate notification and a very noticeable notification. Isn't apple supposed to be the pinnacle of mobile security? With all of their engineering wisdom, no one thought of that?

 

[mckinney3]

dorlow, I use TILE and AirTags. At least Apple has implemented something to warn a person a being tracked. If I wanted to stalk someone, TILE would be the device of choice. There is NO alert to the person who is carrying a TILE. A premium TILE owner can also get a continuous update every time a TILE is pinged and a map.

I mailed an envelope containing a TILE and an AirTag in order to follow the journey. The AirTag offers no history of the device just the location of the phone that last pinged it. The TILE gives the complete history of the journey. Now, since there is such a low user base of TILE, the pings from devices running their app are infrequent wheras the reports on the AirTag location changes are frequent.

I notice that both devices can err significantly as to the location of the Tag/Tile since, as you pointed out, the report is where the phone is when it reports and not the location of the Tag/Tile. In fact, phones in moving cars and with varying connection times can report locations easily a mile away from the actual Tag/Tile location.

 

[dorlow]

That seems like a very obvious security flaw then. Why isn't apple doing anything to fix it? Seems like they could easily update their code to give an immediate notification and a very noticeable notification. Isn't apple supposed to be the pinnacle of mobile security? With all of their engineering wisdom, no one thought of that?

Maybe also, to even improve security more would be, if it's lost, the phone that is now tracking it would have a 2 minute delay before it starts tracking it.

 

[chabig]

Maybe also, to even improve security more would be, if it's lost, the phone that is now tracking it would have a 2 minute delay before it starts tracking it.

If they worked that way, we would all get nuisance notifications of every AirTag situated around us for more than two minutes–at a restaurant, at a red light, at the airport, on the street, at work, and so on.

For full information, I suggest a web search of how the Find My network works. You'll find answers to all of your questions. Here are a few starters.

What Is Apple's Find My Network?

Surprise! A network of a billion Apple devices sniffing Bluetooth signals can actually be a good thing.

www.howtogeek.com

How Apple's AirTags Prevent Stalkers from Tracking You

AirTags can help you find virtually anything, so how is Apple fighting stalkers?

www.howtogeek.com

 

[dorlow]

dorlow, I use TILE and AirTags. At least Apple has implemented something to warn a person a being tracked. If I wanted to stalk someone, TILE would be the device of choice. There is NO alert to the person who is carrying a TILE. A premium TILE owner can also get a continuous update every time a TILE is pinged and a map.

I mailed an envelope containing a TILE and an AirTag in order to follow the journey. The AirTag offers no history of the device just the location of the phone that last pinged it. The TILE gives the complete history of the journey. Now, since there is such a low user base of TILE, the pings from devices running their app are infrequent wheras the reports on the AirTag location changes are frequent.

I notice that both devices can err significantly as to the location of the Tag/Tile since, as you pointed out, the report is where the phone is when it reports and not the location of the Tag/Tile. In fact, phones in moving cars and with varying connection times can report locations easily a mile away from the actual Tag/Tile location.

Seems to me that airtag would still be the device of choice. Tile might do a better job of tracking. But, you need to install the Tile app. A victim most likely won't have it already. I'm guessing an iPhone it's just built in and that's the problem. With around 50% of the world having iphones, I'm sure they would get connected pretty quickly if it happens automatically.

 

[dorlow]

How many apple users use airtags? Does the majority of apple users use them? I have tile, but I don't think a majority of android users use tile. I'm just a geek and loose my stuff all the time. I'm guessing most people don't spend that much money to just make sure they don't loose the remote.

 

[iStorm]

The media just likes to talk about Apple and blow things out of proportion. There were ways to track people before AirTags came along. There are some pretty cheap GPS trackers on Amazon, which would do a better job than AirTags.

Like someone else said, Apple has taken care to attempt to notify a user that may be tracked/stalked. Samsung has Galaxy SmartTags that basically work the same as AirTags, but with Samsung phones. Samsung added anti-stalking features later, but the user still needs to initiate it themselves, unlike AirTags.

 

[waw74]

AirTags have a community find feature After pairing with your phone, and the device is separated (lost), the owner can then place in lost mode. Then EVERY iPhone that pings the device will report the location that the phone was located when pinging the tag.

If the tag “follows” (stays with same iPhone) for two hours then the tag beeps and notifies that iPhone that they have picked up a tag.

So stalking requires that the stalked person has an iPhone and there is a 2 hour window before they are alerted.

you don't have to put it in lost mode for that to happen.

in normal operation, the tag sends out pings periodically, and any iPhone, iPad or Mac will pick that up, and report back to apple with the receiving devices location (the tags have no GPS on their own). The device receiving the ping can belong to anyone, and on the receiving device the reporting back to apple all happens in the background. the pings from the tag, and the location information is encrypted. so in theory, no one can track you by monitoring for pings from a certain serial number, and only the owner of the tag can see it's location (not even apple can see it).

to get the "unknown tag following you" notification on your phone, the tag must have not been in contact with it's owner's device for a while, and your phone needs to have "heard" several pings from the same tag. and it's not necessarily 2 hours, I've seen various times. but

Lost mode does 2 things.
-normally when you hold the tag against your phone (or any device with a NFC reader) it will send you to a "found tag" web page at apple, that has the serial number of the tag, and the last 4 digits of your phone number (enough for a friend to figure out it's yours, but not enough for a stranger to be able to contact you). In lost mode, you are able to enter a short message that will also appear on that page to help someone get it back to you.
-Lost mode also will send an alert to the owner when the tag's location is updated. Normally it just happens in the background, and you only see it when you open the app.

 

[indychris]

The media just likes to talk about Apple and blow things out of proportion. There were ways to track people before AirTags came along. There are some pretty cheap GPS trackers on Amazon, which would do a better job than AirTags.

Like someone else said, Apple has taken care to attempt to notify a user that may be tracked/stalked. Samsung has Galaxy SmartTags that basically work the same as AirTags, but with Samsung phones. Samsung added anti-stalking features later, but the user still needs to initiate it themselves, unlike AirTags.

You're unquestionably right about the media's fixation on Apple!

The problem with all of this, it seems to me, is that the feature that makes it troubling to some regarding tracking victims is also the very feature that makes it useful for tracking thieves who would steal something of yours. The thing I liked about AirTags was the option to hide it in a compartment of luggage, computer bag, etc where people would have to diligently look to find it. If it's stolen, then there's still a chance of tracking it down before the criminal discovers it. Now if people are alerted, it's a bit of a moot point. Other than losing keys, I'm not sure I see much point in having AirTags.

 

[dmccloud]

You're unquestionably right about the media's fixation on Apple!

The problem with all of this, it seems to me, is that the feature that makes it troubling to some regarding tracking victims is also the very feature that makes it useful for tracking thieves who would steal something of yours. The thing I liked about AirTags was the option to hide it in a compartment of luggage, computer bag, etc where people would have to diligently look to find it. If it's stolen, then there's still a chance of tracking it down before the criminal discovers it. Now if people are alerted, it's a bit of a moot point. Other than losing keys, I'm not sure I see much point in having AirTags.

I have one Air Tag on my keys, but I have two others I will be activating just before I fly to the Lower 48 on business next month, which will be hidden in my checked bags. Since they use a regular button-cell battery and not lithium-ion, there's no issue with having those devices in checked baggage. In theory, I should get a more accurate reading on where my bags are then the airlines' own systems.

 

[waw74]

In theory, I should get a more accurate reading on where my bags are then the airlines' own systems.

if you scroll back in this forum, you'll find someone's account of doing just that.
and you're correct.

 

[danny842003]

I have one Air Tag on my keys, but I have two others I will be activating just before I fly to the Lower 48 on business next month, which will be hidden in my checked bags. Since they use a regular button-cell battery and not lithium-ion, there's no issue with having those devices in checked baggage. In theory, I should get a more accurate reading on where my bags are then the airlines' own systems.

Won’t your bags be on the same flight as you?
Also what benefit is there to doing this?

 

[waw74]

Won’t your bags be on the same flight as you?
Also what benefit is there to doing this?

in a perfect world, yes they will be.
but, things happen....

bags go on wrong planes.​

bags don't make it to the plane you're on.​

people accicidently (or not so accidentally) pick up bags that aren't theirs at baggage claim.​

​

it gives you the peace of mind that your bags are actually on your plane, and helps you find your bag if they don't make it to your destination with you.

 

[chenks]

to get the "unknown tag following you" notification on your phone, the tag must have not been in contact with it's owner's device for a while, and your phone needs to have "heard" several pings from the same tag. and it's not necessarily 2 hours, I've seen various times. but

i've always been curious about this, and how it works for a household where 1 person has an airtag, and each person has an iphone.

if the person with the airtag goes out for a considerable time, leaves the aitrag at home, do the other iphone users in the house keep getting notified about an "unknown" airtag in their presence?

reason i ask is that my partner (who has the airtag) went away for 3 days, left the airtag at home and i was never alerted about an airtag not belonging to me being "near me".

 

[iDaniel88]

i've always been curious about this, and how it works for a household where 1 person has an airtag, and each person has an iphone.

if the person with the airtag goes out for a considerable time, leaves the aitrag at home, do the other iphone users in the house keep getting notified about an "unknown" airtag in their presence?

reason i ask is that my partner (who has the airtag) went away for 3 days, left the airtag at home and i was never alerted about an airtag not belonging to me being "near me".

Maybe because the AirTag was located at its home, and thus is not following anyone?

 

[chenks]

Maybe because the AirTag was located at its home, and thus is not following anyone?

yeah but i'm also at the same location as the airtag, whereas the owner of the airtag isn't.
also, how does the airtag know what is "home"?

 

[iDaniel88]

yeah but i'm also at the same location as the airtag, whereas the owner of the airtag isn't.
also, how does the airtag know what is "home"?

Depends on the settings of the owner, I guess. I have enabled the "alert me if my AirTag is left behind EXCEPT for these locations" and added the location of my home there. So if someone else is at home and I don't need my keys I can leave them behind when I'm going outside for a walk without being bothered by notifications that I've left them behind.

 

[wonderings]

You are purposely wearing a tracking device, I would think hackers or anyone who wants to find a way will find a way to track you with them. Personally I do not get the need for the device, I can't remember the last device or anything I have lost besides a single sock in the last 10 years. Yes my phone tracks me, but it seems I have the option to tell apps not to track me and I believe that it does indeed work and stop them from tracking.

 

[NYCValkyrie]

yeah but i'm also at the same location as the airtag, whereas the owner of the airtag isn't.
also, how does the airtag know what is "home"?

If the owner has their address in their contact card or they have a home address in their iCloud profile, it automatically marks "home" as the address listed unless otherwise noted. And since AirTags use other Apple products as beacons, if YOUR iPhone is at home then the AirTag knows is at home because location services/gps is a thing. I'm not sure I'm explaining it right but hopefully that makes sense.

If you take the airtag to say, the park, and leave it someplace, you'd be able to test it better.

 

[babyexercise]

Ok, I don't understand how people use airtags to track unknowingly victims. For starters, I'm an android guy and don't own anything apple. But, you hear about airtag tracking semi often.

With android, I use Tiles to track my devices. I was seeing on the news today too that Tiles are the same issue. But, it doesn't make sense to me how anyone tracks someone unknowingly with them. The tags don't have a cellular card or GPS in them. They're only Bluetooth. You pair them with your phone. It knows your location because the last place you were connected via Bluetooth, it marks the GPS waypoint using the phone's GPS. If it's not connected to your phone, the airtag or tile has no clue where it's at. Even if it did, it wouldn't have any 4G data to upload the information to a server so someone else would know.

If someone else wanted to put a tile or an airtag to track me, they'd have to plant the tile or airtag in my car or backpack or something and then somehow get my phone, unlock it using my passcode, install the tile or airtag app, pair the tile or airtag to the phone and now they can track me. But, they don't make it sound like that. They make it sound like they just drop the airtag in a victim's car and that's it.

Only thing I could think is airtags just auto connect to all apple phones without asking permission. Then I could see the tracking of unwilling victims possible.

Honestly I believe more than 50% people buying these is to track people

 

[1rottenapple]

I have AirTags and they are surprisingly accurate in the USA when there are many iPhone users. air tag on my car keys and dogs.

That seems like a very obvious security flaw then. Why isn't apple doing anything to fix it? Seems like they could easily update their code to give an immediate notification and a very noticeable notification. Isn't apple supposed to be the pinnacle of mobile security? With all of their engineering wisdom, no one thought of that?