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How hard is it to have a civil discussion?

beebarb

beebarb

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 10, 2015
288
258
Why is it that so many are quick to dismiss someone as a 'troll', ignore opinions, or try and force onto others a 'solution' they don't like?

I state an opinion on the iOS 9 forums, hoping for a civil discussion that might change my mind, while I did get some of that, I got a certain degree of immaturity as well.

I wish just once, I could have a civil discussion that doesn't devolve into immaturity.
 
beebarb said:
Why is it that so many are quick to dismiss someone as a 'troll', ignore opinions, or try and force onto others a 'solution' they don't like?

I state an opinion on the iOS 9 forums, hoping for a civil discussion that might change my mind, while I did get some of that, I got a certain degree of immaturity as well.

I wish just once, I could have a civil discussion that doesn't devolve into immaturity.
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I imagine you are at the very least making reference to this thread: Unable to remove or disable 'selfies' folder, why? Sorry to hear you are discontent with your experience here.

Personally, the way I read through the thread none of the respondents are being immature or childish. The replies have merely suggested that the primary function/purpose of the frontward facing camera is to take Selfies and other uses of that camera would be niche reasons. I also believe people gave you good, valid options of alternatively storing your photos to accommodate large photo libraries.

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion and what is a problem for you may not be a problem for others. I completely respect that. In this thread you asked "why" Apple did what they did, and I believe you got reasonable answers. Keep in mind you asked "why", which is why you got the responses you did. The fact is, no one here can change this Selfie folder problem for you. I would suggest writing Apple and sharing your concerns if you see this as a significant problem. I might also see that people took the word "unacceptable" to describe a folder name as dramatic, but that is just my interpretation.

To the point of this specific thread, this is the internet which has a couple universal problems. #1 People communicate in text which does not necessarily illustrate the tone of speech, and therefore meaning can be misinterpreted. #2 People can and will state their opinions with little restriction. You won't always agree with others, and others won't always agree with you. Other people won't appreciate your thoughts and you might not appreciate theirs. People might joke around as well whether you enjoy it or not. This is the reality of the internet and expectations you should have in using it. I will suggest not making threads with somewhat rhetorical-seeming questions as the title, so you better tailor the discussion you're looking to have.

Again, I'm sorry to hear you're discontent with this website. I have actually found MR to be an extremely helpful and informative website. There are a lot of very nice and brilliantly intelligent people here. The iOS section has the reputation of being a little more immature and volatile. I'm sure if you stick around long enough you will begin to appreciate other members, the community, and the culture. No one is requiring you to be here, but I assure you MR is one of the best online communities out there.

Best of Luck :)

-----

P.S. My statement about not asking rhetorical questions- looking at the title of this thread "How hard is it to have a civil discussion" opens you right up for the "immature" and "childish" responses you wish to avoid.
 
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@A.Goldberg I suppose this particular thread was just my way of venting.
Looking over the 'selfies' thread again, I can see their points, but I suppose in the moment I allowed emotion to sway my perception of the conversation.
 
ddkkpp said:
uhh... welcome to the internet.


1226104401_4d38f19fe4.jpg
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Careful, the mods censored my avatar, which was a reference to that.
 
beebarb said:
Maybe it's just me, but the 'censored' word is still perfectly legible.
Click to expand...

It's a long story. It was a different avatar, this new one is just a tame tongue in cheek reference to it.
In reality the pixelated word is "DICEWAO" which of course doesn't mean anything.
 
beebarb said:
Why is it that so many are quick to dismiss someone as a 'troll', ignore opinions, or try and force onto others a 'solution' they don't like?

I state an opinion on the iOS 9 forums, hoping for a civil discussion that might change my mind, while I did get some of that, I got a certain degree of immaturity as well.

I wish just once, I could have a civil discussion that doesn't devolve into immaturity.
Click to expand...
You and me, and many others think the same. And those are the people you're having the discussion with. I just ignore the immature responses and value the ones that stand out and participate on-topic and have constructive feedback.

Posting something, opinion, fact, details, .. and being wrong, or misunderstanding it, or whatever - shouldn't make you liable to ridicule, trolling, or be called one. So just stand above that and recognise the better content.

I find it a shame when someone says "in my experience, product x or software y doesn't do it for me anymore, because of these reasons.. " that the first couple responses are "you are just a troll" or alike. I think there's a clear difference between a troll trying to stir up trouble in a community to get a reaction from others, and someone who shares their experience (good or bad) with a product, software or service.

Meanwhile on the Internet:
 
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Floris said:
You and me, and many others think the same. And those are the people you're having the discussion with. I just ignore the immature responses and value the ones that stand out and participate on-topic and have constructive feedback.

Posting something, opinion, fact, details, .. and being wrong, or misunderstanding it, or whatever - shouldn't make you liable to ridicule, trolling, or be called one. So just stand above that and recognise the better content.

I find it a shame when someone says "in my experience, product x or software y doesn't do it for me anymore, because of these reasons.. " that the first couple responses are "you are just a troll" or alike. I think there's a clear difference between a troll trying to stir up trouble in a community to get a reaction from others, and someone who shares their experience (good or bad) with a product, software or service.

Meanwhile on the Internet:
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I find it much easier to either completely ignore a person or speak to them in a very removed fashion. It seems that getting upset or showing too much of your soul in a post, it can open the whole thread up to wasteland. I prefer to try to stay out of there, when possible.

On that note, I find this forum to be one of the least censored in comparison to many of my other tech hangouts online. It's not a bad thing it just means you'll have a lot more of what people will sling around as "Freedom of speech". Sometimes, it's hilarious.

In conclusion OP, you'll get a mass mixture of people from all kinds. Their responses show the same. It's how you deal with them that makes all the difference. =) Hang in there.
 
It's going to be down right hard to have a civil discussion. Just like your problem with the camera issue, you can't appease everyone. One group will automatically call you a troll, that's just what they do. " troll ", if you even smell of " fishy " as they call it.

Another group will agree with you, and their will be some who are generally not biased and just say whatever pops up.
I'd take it with a grain of salt, the ones who immediately jump to troll are the hardcore guys who generally don't leave the computer very often, and when they do, it's to get a pizza, or some other randomly, not so good enough food for them to eat.

I love reading conversations, then almost like clock work, 5 - 6 posts down, the troll word comes up. I close the thread , and move on.
 
Freedom of speech is for politics, basically. It's there to help you to speak freely against oppressing government.

Yes, one can say what they wish on a forum such as this one, but it is privately owned space. Meaning your speech is not protected beyond the terms of service. Which those who can post agreed to during their registration. It's a void argument when trolls use it.

The staff is also quite clear as to what is welcome or not.
https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201327723-MacRumors-Rules-for-Appropriate-Debate

Using crowdsourcing of content, making the moderators aware of content that's not within the spirit of the community will improve the community. Good content gets supported with a thumbsup, unwelcomed content will quietly be reported and dealt with if appropriate.

[edited for clarity]
 
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Floris said:
Freedom of speech is for politics, basically. Plus, while this is a public forum - upon registration one agrees to the terms here, voiding freedom of speech. It's a void argument when trolls use it.
https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201327723-MacRumors-Rules-for-Appropriate-Debate
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Is that a joke? Freedom of speech, so you find the rules? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, or asks a question that you feel to be " odd " , or " fishy " doesnt' make them a " troll " . Almost every thread i've read with more than one page of replies comes with a troll tag somewhere. If it were just radom people being " trolls " , then why are their thousands of them being called a " troll " ? it's a " online society " thing, the ones who say troll feel like they are special, because they got to call someone a troll that meets the standards of " they don't agree with me , they don't make sense , i think others will like me if i say troll " , and the one called the troll just gets to be annoyed, and rage about it.

It's all day every day, and that's how it happens, the rules don't determine a troll, you think anyone reads that crap when they sign up, im sure some do, but few, few , few read it.
 
yillbs said:
Is that a joke? Freedom of speech, so you find the rules? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, or asks a question that you feel to be " odd " , or " fishy " doesnt' make them a " troll " . Almost every thread i've read with more than one page of replies comes with a troll tag somewhere. If it were just radom people being " trolls " , then why are their thousands of them being called a " troll " ? it's a " online society " thing, the ones who say troll feel like they are special, because they got to call someone a troll that meets the standards of " they don't agree with me , they don't make sense , i think others will like me if i say troll " , and the one called the troll just gets to be annoyed, and rage about it.

It's all day every day, and that's how it happens, the rules don't determine a troll, you think anyone reads that crap when they sign up, im sure some do, but few, few , few read it.
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While you were replying to me I've edited my post. I think you might have misunderstood my intention or maybe I was unable to properly express it. Sorry.

That said, isn't it somewhat logical that common sense and human courtesy applies, even if a community has no rules, or nobody reads them?

Also, I do agree that if someone disagrees with another person that it doesn't make them a troll. My objection with what I read a lot in threads on here and other forums, is that if someone posts something another person doesn't like, even if the thread starter has valid points and good arguments, or speaks out of personal experience, that there are comments added by others saying "OP is just a troll", which ruins the thread, it makes simply a discussion less civil, and ruins the experience to some.
 
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