I'm attempting to convert a few of my friends (current wintel users) and they are somewhat skeptical of the software situation w/a mac. I continually insist that all of the cutting edge programs are available, (games excluded) and, I guess they don't believe me. We agree that Apple computers are a lot "cooler" looking, but the're still not sold... what sould i tell them? or should i care?
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how to convert a wintel user
- Thread starter mr.w
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Get them to make a list of all the apps they use, then go into an Apple Store, or find them on the Internet. That should do it for the app situation.
Oh, also point out the extra features a lot of Mac versions of software have, like Office v.X for example.
Oh, also point out the extra features a lot of Mac versions of software have, like Office v.X for example.
Not enough?
I always argue that everything is available for a Mac, since Ive never found an OS it cant run. If they need a M$ Windows-based program, get Virtual PC (or better yet, XWindows). If they need Linux programs, get Linux. If they need Amiga or Atari or Palm OS or whatever, theres plenty of programs out there that will let you run these. All you have to do is look!
I always argue that everything is available for a Mac, since Ive never found an OS it cant run. If they need a M$ Windows-based program, get Virtual PC (or better yet, XWindows). If they need Linux programs, get Linux. If they need Amiga or Atari or Palm OS or whatever, theres plenty of programs out there that will let you run these. All you have to do is look!
Make a laundry list of all the small things that work so much better in Mac OS X, like Sherlock vs. Window's lame Find feature. Show them the dock, and how you can use folders for dock submenus; play a quicktime movie, then minimize it, then show them it playing in the dock. Show them iTunes, and burn a few CDs for them; show them the search function in iTunes, and note it will be in the Finder soon. Tell them about how you've never had to deal with a virus, or buy special software for it, and how you've gotten email viruses and just laughed at them. That kind of thing. Get a long list of these together, then demo using the Mac. Ask them if being able to choose from 20 word processors instead of 10 is worth the aggravation of using a clunky interface like Windows instead of a smoother, intuitive one like the Mac.
Then show them how things are gonna go turbo in Jaguar, and that is the Time to Buy.
Tokyo
Then show them how things are gonna go turbo in Jaguar, and that is the Time to Buy.
Tokyo
what is Xwindows? i actually have virtualPC and i love it. i guess what I'm asking is....... what are the benifits of having an apple computer. I mean i've had an apple computer for 12 years (75% of my life) and i need some new convincing information, I've run out of the everyday banter:
1) stability, stability, stability
2) OSX is awsome
3) cooler looking
4) smoother integration of software and hardware
5) cutting edge
6) Final Cut pro (video editing)
7) the've got character (doesn't contribute to performace,
but is a nice characteristic)
8) awsome flat screens
9) Apple wins the notebook war
....................................................................... i'm sure I'm missing something
1) stability, stability, stability
2) OSX is awsome
3) cooler looking
4) smoother integration of software and hardware
5) cutting edge
6) Final Cut pro (video editing)
7) the've got character (doesn't contribute to performace,
but is a nice characteristic)
8) awsome flat screens
9) Apple wins the notebook war
....................................................................... i'm sure I'm missing something
actually in winxp there is a speach area in the control panel that allows the computer to talk just like simpletext. Windows is up to copying again!
Hey, what do some of you guys think about putting together some sort of MR community PC Convert page which spells out the advantages of the mac concisely and addresses the concerns of many PC users about macs... Sure, Apple should have done this already but their marketing team obviously $uck$ @$$.
do you guys think this is a good idea or not (and why or why not)?
do you guys think this is a good idea or not (and why or why not)?
Some info
For what it's worth...I'm a former wintel guy. I recently switched to the Mac and I've been documenting my transition.
Here:
http://www.edgecurve.com/imac/
Good luck and fight the good fight.
Scott
For what it's worth...I'm a former wintel guy. I recently switched to the Mac and I've been documenting my transition.
Here:
http://www.edgecurve.com/imac/
Good luck and fight the good fight.
Scott
Re: Some info
--
j763 - that's a good idea. I think we could put together a well-informed and correct list of Mac advantages (and disadvantages, if anyone can think of any...) There are a few sites out there that do similar things, but most of them are full of crap and haven't been updated since 1940 (or thereabouts)
Very nice site. mr w, get your friend to have a look over this page!
--
j763 - that's a good idea. I think we could put together a well-informed and correct list of Mac advantages (and disadvantages, if anyone can think of any...) There are a few sites out there that do similar things, but most of them are full of crap and haven't been updated since 1940 (or thereabouts
)
Now how to convert a Windows userr to a mac user:
First collate a list of applications on the users PC, then go to vendort websites and see if they offer (or include a multi-platform version) Mac version . Then get somes books for our converting users such as books like Macs for dummies, the macintiosh Bible, Macworld Mac Secrets. After the computer arrives and it is installed, they would need vto get used to "installers"-on Windows, we call setup apps installer- like Windows Installer. Or train them on the PC forst with Babya System.
First collate a list of applications on the users PC, then go to vendort websites and see if they offer (or include a multi-platform version) Mac version . Then get somes books for our converting users such as books like Macs for dummies, the macintiosh Bible, Macworld Mac Secrets. After the computer arrives and it is installed, they would need vto get used to "installers"-on Windows, we call setup apps installer- like Windows Installer. Or train them on the PC forst with Babya System.
Re: Re: Some info
Thanks for the support I'm well aware of sites that handle the Mac vs. Pc argument but they're generally very messy, badly designed and as you mentioned, are rarely updated. Just wondering -- who here has a domain?? I've just sent an email off to AmbitiousLemon. I know he's got one and I'll find out whether he's interested or not. I've got good skills in backend web design but I rarely mess with the frontend... Is there someone here at MR who can do nice clean site design (similar to apple.com) and is willing to put some time into it? I think the key to this site will be the design...
Originally posted by Beej
j763 - that's a good idea. I think we could put together a well-informed and correct list of Mac advantages (and disadvantages, if anyone can think of any...) There are a few sites out there that do similar things, but most of them are full of crap and haven't been updated since 1940 (or thereabouts
Thanks for the support
I'm well aware of sites that handle the Mac vs. Pc argument but they're generally very messy, badly designed and as you mentioned, are rarely updated. Just wondering -- who here has a domain?? I've just sent an email off to AmbitiousLemon. I know he's got one and I'll find out whether he's interested or not. I've got good skills in backend web design but I rarely mess with the frontend... Is there someone here at MR who can do nice clean site design (similar to apple.com) and is willing to put some time into it? I think the key to this site will be the design...XWindows
Mr. W,
I havent actually used XWindows yet I just upgraded my hard drive, and Im still trying to work around a problem that wont let install the Installer Update necessary for Mac OS X 10.1.1+ but as I understand it, its a Classic environment that runs Windows instead of Mac OS 9.2.x. In other words, it treats Windows apps just like Classic apps no virtual desktop or anything!
As for why to convert to Mac OS, it really boils down to one thing: Windows is designed to work on thousands of different computers and millions of different components, which in a nutshell, is why it doesnt work 100% correctly with any of them. Mac OS X is designed for about five basic motherboard designs all created by the same company that built the OS and designed to work with parts that meet its manufacturers own exacting standards. In other words, its almost like having an embedded OS. (How often does the OS in your TV, VCR, DVD player, etc. crash?)
Good luck with your friends! (Ive been working on the guys where I work, too.)
Mr. W,
I havent actually used XWindows yet I just upgraded my hard drive, and Im still trying to work around a problem that wont let install the Installer Update necessary for Mac OS X 10.1.1+ but as I understand it, its a Classic environment that runs Windows instead of Mac OS 9.2.x. In other words, it treats Windows apps just like Classic apps no virtual desktop or anything!
As for why to convert to Mac OS, it really boils down to one thing: Windows is designed to work on thousands of different computers and millions of different components, which in a nutshell, is why it doesnt work 100% correctly with any of them. Mac OS X is designed for about five basic motherboard designs all created by the same company that built the OS and designed to work with parts that meet its manufacturers own exacting standards. In other words, its almost like having an embedded OS. (How often does the OS in your TV, VCR, DVD player, etc. crash?)
Good luck with your friends! (Ive been working on the guys where I work, too.)
I think that would be an awsome idea... but i also think that could get a little messy. We'd have to be fair about it, that's my only concern. I don't have a domain, but i'd be into maintaining it... let me know...
and thanks for everyones insight
You have to educate people about the Mac
Long post--but I have to tell my story.
I work in a huge civil engineering firm. I am the sole Mac user in the entire company. I have had quite an uphill battle trying to get my PowerBook on the network. No, it's not a matter of settings etc., it involved convincing my IT guys that I wasn't going to infect the whole network and that a Macintosh could actually connect to a network! These guys are smart people--they know how to keep our network working flawlessly. They just don't know a thing about Macs. Nothing. Zilcho.
When I first got my PB, I just for fun plugged into our network, fired up Dave and boom, was working fine for about a year! No help from any IT guy, just a few emails with the Thursby people.
Then one day, our chief IT guy comes by and freaks out about my evil Apple on his network. He told me to unplug it right there. I went up to his office later that day to discuss the situation. He just could not believe that my PB came with an ethernet card built-in, that it could talk to the NT network, and that I could print to all our printers and plotters. He honestly did not understand. He told me this to my face and asked for me to show him how OS X worked.
I did, and he was amazed that it took all of about five mouse clicks and typing in an IP address to get it working. This guy was actually smiling as he toyed around with it. He was blown away by Terminal. He's an old Unix guru.
The best part was when he asked "but what can you do with you Mac? There's no applications for it." Hmmm. I informed him that MS has a Mac version of Office. "They do!?" I showed him I can also run Window$ 2000 and all of our engineering applications. The guy was sold. He helped me for a couple of hours trying to setup Window$ 2000 to hit out network and be able to logon.
My point of this post is that most Window$ users truly do not know a thing about Macintosh--much less OS X. Most of our engineers know only what our cocky IT guys or the fools at CompUSA tell them. They bash the lowely Macintosh. They are so wrapped up in this Mhz Myth too!!! The only way you're going to convince people is to show them. Let them play with your Mac. Show them Office v.X. I have yet to talk to someone about computers and have them actually know that MS supports Mac. Show them how simple networking is. Let them hold you PowerBook G4 or iBook!!
Be honest here folks, if you were Joe Shmo who knows nothing about computers and walked into a CompUSA, talked to and trusted the sales guy, would you buy a Mac? Hell no you wouldn't! And this my friends is why 95% of the world buys PCs. And this is why I get frustrated when the only thing people remember about Apple is the new iMac commercial. It's clever BTW, but is it going to show people why they should spend $2,000 for a new Mac compared with $600 for a Dull? Apple needs to SHOW people why they should switch. Thank goodness for the Apple stores at least.
Long post--but I have to tell my story.
I work in a huge civil engineering firm. I am the sole Mac user in the entire company. I have had quite an uphill battle trying to get my PowerBook on the network. No, it's not a matter of settings etc., it involved convincing my IT guys that I wasn't going to infect the whole network and that a Macintosh could actually connect to a network! These guys are smart people--they know how to keep our network working flawlessly. They just don't know a thing about Macs. Nothing. Zilcho.
When I first got my PB, I just for fun plugged into our network, fired up Dave and boom, was working fine for about a year! No help from any IT guy, just a few emails with the Thursby people.
Then one day, our chief IT guy comes by and freaks out about my evil Apple on his network. He told me to unplug it right there. I went up to his office later that day to discuss the situation. He just could not believe that my PB came with an ethernet card built-in, that it could talk to the NT network, and that I could print to all our printers and plotters. He honestly did not understand. He told me this to my face and asked for me to show him how OS X worked.
I did, and he was amazed that it took all of about five mouse clicks and typing in an IP address to get it working. This guy was actually smiling as he toyed around with it. He was blown away by Terminal. He's an old Unix guru.
The best part was when he asked "but what can you do with you Mac? There's no applications for it." Hmmm. I informed him that MS has a Mac version of Office. "They do!?" I showed him I can also run Window$ 2000 and all of our engineering applications. The guy was sold. He helped me for a couple of hours
trying to setup Window$ 2000 to hit out network and be able to logon.My point of this post is that most Window$ users truly do not know a thing about Macintosh--much less OS X. Most of our engineers know only what our cocky IT guys or the fools at CompUSA tell them. They bash the lowely Macintosh. They are so wrapped up in this Mhz Myth too!!! The only way you're going to convince people is to show them. Let them play with your Mac. Show them Office v.X. I have yet to talk to someone about computers and have them actually know that MS supports Mac. Show them how simple networking is. Let them hold you PowerBook G4 or iBook!!
Be honest here folks, if you were Joe Shmo who knows nothing about computers and walked into a CompUSA, talked to and trusted the sales guy, would you buy a Mac? Hell no you wouldn't! And this my friends is why 95% of the world buys PCs. And this is why I get frustrated when the only thing people remember about Apple is the new iMac commercial. It's clever BTW, but is it going to show people why they should spend $2,000 for a new Mac compared with $600 for a Dull? Apple needs to SHOW people why they should switch. Thank goodness for the Apple stores at least.
Let me type it straight. ----------- There was a previous thread about Apple Stores and how they seem to lack supplies.
Here is my little short story.
When my family and I went on vacation my dad forgot his power supply for his Powerbook G3 Firewire. The nearest Apple Store was about an hour and a half away. My dad traveled all the way there to find out that no power supplies (for his computer) were in stock. And someone else, jelloshotsrule if I am not mistaken, posted how Apple Stores have been lacking products for Apple computers. So my point is: WTF is the point of having an Apple Store for some Apple supplies and even more that you need & cannot get? It seems as if someone forgot to take their common sense pill before this was all planned out.
Just so you know that unless Apple Stores prove to me that they can carry anything for anyone I will not trust Apple Stores to have supplies I am looking for.
__________________
Any time is a great time for iPod.
Working on 500 post signature...
Here is my little short story.
When my family and I went on vacation my dad forgot his power supply for his Powerbook G3 Firewire. The nearest Apple Store was about an hour and a half away. My dad traveled all the way there to find out that no power supplies (for his computer) were in stock. And someone else, jelloshotsrule if I am not mistaken, posted how Apple Stores have been lacking products for Apple computers. So my point is: WTF is the point of having an Apple Store for some Apple supplies and even more that you need & cannot get? It seems as if someone forgot to take their common sense pill before this was all planned out.
Just so you know that unless Apple Stores prove to me that they can carry anything for anyone I will not trust Apple Stores to have supplies I am looking for.
__________________
Any time is a great time for iPod.
Working on 500 post signature...
KC: people told you this in the last thread and ill say it again. you arent thinking reasonably. first why didnt you call ahead before driving that far? and then dont you know the apple store is a retail store not a repair shop? you cant expect a retail store to carry 2-3 year old inventory just in case someone walks in and wants it. retail stores carry the newest stuff. if you want your machine serviced you need to go to a service shop not a retail store. and the apple website will happily direct you to any number of service shops near you.
Re: XWindows
I think I need to clear up the misunderstanding about XWindows before you are sorely disappointed. XWindows has absoultely nothing to do with running MS Windows apps. Nada.
The closest comparison I can think of is to think of XWindows as a graphics drawing layer for UNIX. It makes GUI's for UNIX much simpler because it handles the actual drawing of lines, boxes, bitmaps, etc and handing those images to the hardware to display. A window manager for UNIX (Gnome, KDE, WindowMaker, etc) makes calls to a widget-set (Gtk+, Qt, Motif, etc... they control scrollbars, buttons, windows, etc), which then makes calls to XWindows, which then talks to the hardware.
However, XWindows API's are nothing like MS Windows API's. In fact, unless you are using a window manager, XWindows won't do anything for you! You need a window manager to handle the GUI, because XWindows has no GUI. It's basically just a graphics layer.
(XWindows handles much more then just drawing the graphics, but it's hard to explain in a simple post... a better way to think of it would be as a GUI back-end... it handles the hard stuff, you get to write the easy stuff...)
I think I need to clear up the misunderstanding about XWindows before you are sorely disappointed. XWindows has absoultely nothing to do with running MS Windows apps. Nada.
The closest comparison I can think of is to think of XWindows as a graphics drawing layer for UNIX. It makes GUI's for UNIX much simpler because it handles the actual drawing of lines, boxes, bitmaps, etc and handing those images to the hardware to display. A window manager for UNIX (Gnome, KDE, WindowMaker, etc) makes calls to a widget-set (Gtk+, Qt, Motif, etc... they control scrollbars, buttons, windows, etc), which then makes calls to XWindows, which then talks to the hardware.
However, XWindows API's are nothing like MS Windows API's. In fact, unless you are using a window manager, XWindows won't do anything for you! You need a window manager to handle the GUI, because XWindows has no GUI. It's basically just a graphics layer.
(XWindows handles much more then just drawing the graphics, but it's hard to explain in a simple post... a better way to think of it would be as a GUI back-end... it handles the hard stuff, you get to write the easy stuff...)
XWindows
Hey, PCUser.
Thanks for setting me straight on that. Some other people had told me they were using XWindows and XFree86 for running Windows apps under Mac OS X, but I guess they were pulling my leg, or something maybe they just didnt understand the question?
Hey, PCUser.
Thanks for setting me straight on that. Some other people had told me they were using XWindows and XFree86 for running Windows apps under Mac OS X, but I guess they were pulling my leg, or something maybe they just didnt understand the question?
Hope I didn't disappoint you!
XFree86 is the free implementation of XWindows commonly used by Linux and FreeBSD, and probably some other popular *nixes (and I think there is a version for Darwin).
You could use it run graphical Linux apps (as long as you can get the required libs like Gtk for Gnome and Qt for KDE, etc, to compile for MacOS X... anyone know for sure?) since then you'd have the GUI API's necessary to run them... *shrug*. Perhaps they meant they were using XFree86 to run Linux XWindows apps on Darwin?
XFree86 is the free implementation of XWindows commonly used by Linux and FreeBSD, and probably some other popular *nixes (and I think there is a version for Darwin).
You could use it run graphical Linux apps (as long as you can get the required libs like Gtk for Gnome and Qt for KDE, etc, to compile for MacOS X... anyone know for sure?) since then you'd have the GUI API's necessary to run them... *shrug*. Perhaps they meant they were using XFree86 to run Linux XWindows apps on Darwin?
well, the all new AmbitiousLemon.com is coming soon and we've added a Mac vs. PC Section. Please give us suggestions and comments for the section here and via our feedback page.
I just pull out my Ti800 and show them OS X, with Office X, XDarwin, the whole Unix underpinnings, Warcraft3 (playing with a disk image instead of the original CD). My long battery life, my second 20" monitor at insane resolutions at 24bit color. The beautiful OS. They get the idea.
Re: XWindows
You can go to fink.sourceforge.net and install fink (read the instructions) and run X-Windows, like a linux box. Now what is cool, is to run vmware on a fast pc with linux as the primary os, and win xp as the vm.
Then SSH -x hostname.domain.net, to the linux box. -x will forward the xwindows through the encrypted ssh tunnel. Then run vmware, and the equivalent of a virtual pc will show up on your desktop, but will be way faster than vpc ever could be, since it is running on real wintel hardware.
Originally posted by bojangles
Hey, PCUser.
Thanks for setting me straight on that. Some other people had told me they were using XWindows and XFree86 for running Windows apps under Mac OS X, but I guess they were pulling my leg, or something _maybe they just didnt understand the question?
You can go to fink.sourceforge.net and install fink (read the instructions) and run X-Windows, like a linux box. Now what is cool, is to run vmware on a fast pc with linux as the primary os, and win xp as the vm.
Then SSH -x hostname.domain.net, to the linux box. -x will forward the xwindows through the encrypted ssh tunnel. Then run vmware, and the equivalent of a virtual pc will show up on your desktop, but will be way faster than vpc ever could be, since it is running on real wintel hardware.
mind torture. put em in a room, tie em to a chair, shine a light in their faces and break windoze software cds in thier faces and continously make the computer show BSoDs.
J/k. Just show them how stable and fast Mac OSX runs and that they can use pretty much any program of any interest on a mac w/o flaw. let em tinker around and see if they can crash em (thats waht the apple store is for). I bet those windoze people couldnt crash OSX if they had to.
J/k. Just show them how stable and fast Mac OSX runs and that they can use pretty much any program of any interest on a mac w/o flaw. let em tinker around and see if they can crash em (thats waht the apple store is for). I bet those windoze people couldnt crash OSX if they had to.