tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
9,253
9,962
No idea, I never test any Vega, but if both RX580 and Radeon VII can work, I can’t see why only Vega is not supported. Unless that’s a mistake from AMD.

My understanding, UEFI ROM means VBIOS + UEFI. When the card is installed in a legacy system, the UEFI part will be ignored, and only the VBIOS part work. So, Vega should has VBIOS part in the ROM to support CSM.

However, I haven’t follow that closely about Vega’s Windows support. Until someone confirm that he can use Vega on cMP in CSM Windows, we better treat that’s not an option.

I'll probably need to look this again, after all the GOP/UEFI AMD VEGA II fiasco and subsequent updates, but when I was trying cross flashing VEGA 64/56 I noticed that the hardware validation made CSM support to not work, this was the consensus at the time on WinRAID VEGA BIOS thread too and AMD has a support article requiring that you change to UEFI.

Since you had success with CSM and VEGA II, maybe the no CSM support is valid only for cross-flashed cards and card with BIOS mods.
 

Synchro3

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2014
1,983
841
Just a detail: I always thought the ,VII' in the name means Vega v.II. If this is correct your card is a Vega card.
 

skizzo

macrumors 6502
Apr 11, 2018
260
82
Just a detail: I always thought the ,VII' in the name means Vega v.II. If this is correct your card is a Vega card.

the Radeon VII is def a Vega based card. but compared to the Vega 56 and 64 those are "Vega 10" and the VII is "Vega 20"
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
Just a detail: I always thought the ,VII' in the name means Vega v.II. If this is correct your card is a Vega card.

Technically you are right. But in general, when we talk about Vega, that means Vega 56 or Vega 64. For Radeon VII, we rarely call it Vega.

But even though it use Vega architecture, we can treat that as Vega 2.0, and AMD may give all 2.0 card a ROM that can support CSM Windows. If Vega 56/64 really can't work in CSM Windows, I expect that's just software (ROM) issue, but not the Vega architecture won't allow that to happen.
 

Pressure

macrumors 601
May 30, 2006
4,268
495
Denmark
They are both Graphic Core Next (GCN) 5th generation. VEGA 20 (VEGA VII) doubles the number of HBM2 stacks for 1024GB/s memory bandwidth and double precision floating points (FP64) is 1/2 of FP32 performance, compared to 1/16 for VEGA 10 (VEGA 56/64).

Which is why the VEGA 20 is such a good compute card.
 

drac

macrumors member
Oct 27, 2004
35
5
New Zealand
Hi H98,
Since VEGA won't work with Windows 10 CSM, does that mean you're using Windows UEFI?
I saw some one on carousel selling VEGA FE but worried if I bought one I won't be able to use it with my W10 CSM, while W10 UEFI might cause boot-rom issue.

So Radeon Vega have indeed CSM support? : https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mp-5-1-wont-boot-up-with-black-screen-and-continuous-chime.2191151/page-2#post-27572859

I'm not sure it's of help but as I posted in thread below, I've put a Sapphire Pulse Vega 56 in my 4.1>5.1. I used to have windows in UEFI but after Alex's warnings, checked the BootRom and it was full of certificates. Alex rebuilt it and I have reinstalled Win10 on SATA SSD in CSM. It's working great. The AMD drivers did cause the system to shut down during installation it looked like it had crashed the system but they had installed. I just had to manually install the settings software. It's now undervolted and running like a dream.

GPU Compatibility List for cMP

The AMD notice Alex refers to with advise to run in UEFI was for systems with AMD processors and Vega so not necessarily applicable to us.

In WIN10, I ran benchmarks, undervolted to 980mV and it was nearly 20% faster, as it could achieve its max clocks.
IMG_4846.jpeg
IMG_4848.jpeg
IMG_4851.jpeg
 
Last edited:

tsialex

macrumors G3
Jun 13, 2016
9,253
9,962
Nice to know. So, the VBIOS being rejected by the hardware validation and the consequent CSM mode not working seems it's only for cross flashed/BIOS mods.

Maybe down the road Microsoft finally act on the pending bug report and we won't have to worry about CSM.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
I confirmed it's possible to run a radeon VII with the mini 6pin ONLY (no Pixlas mod, no extra PSU, no SATA power, but with power balancing) with my PowerPlay Table kext.

I limit the card's power draw to 204W (170 x 120%). This is NOT a random number, but when I perform tests in Windows, I found that the GPU never draw more than 202W (including gaming, unigine benchmarks, Luxmark) if I downvolt it to 981mV.
Screenshot 2019-08-31 at 3.58.20 AM.png


With this extra restriction, this card is now quite safe to be powered only by the mini 6pins. Even though still draw more than 75W from a mini 6pin, but even Furmark only draw up to 87W, way below the 120W shutdown protection limit.
Screenshot 2019-08-31 at 3.45.25 AM.png


And if we ignore Furmark, then "non power virus" power draw cap at ~85W (as expected, just tiny bit below the carefully decided limit).
204 Ruler.png


So, we now limit this "300W typical power draw" graphic card to 210W (36+87+87), is there any performance penalty? The answer is, virtually NO, Luxmark / Unigine Heaven / Unigine Valley shows the card still performing at normal performance range, comparable to the factory settings.
204W Max.png
Screenshot 2019-08-31 at 3.41.33 AM.png
Screenshot 2019-08-31 at 3.45.12 AM.jpg


Anyway, the kext is attached. Installation procedure at post #21. (Use at your own risk, I CANNOT guarantee the same setting work flawlessly for your Radeon VII)
 

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  • CustomPowerPlay.kext.zip
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Last edited:

krakman

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2009
288
303
Can anyone report the benefits seen in FCPX with this card? I have a vega 56 and am wondering if its worth the upgrade?
 

mrtang42

macrumors member
Apr 19, 2019
73
18
I think there are some wrong information here. Vega reference defiantly have CSM support. I am using one right now! What I did different from you is that I did install my win10 CSM mode in a PC. Then I move the ssd to my Mac Pro.
 

Expo01

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2019
2
0
No success here I'm afraid... Tried to do this with a ASRock Radeon VII, followed all the steps, used the last kext posted on this thread, tried a couple of times from scratch but still getting a black screen. Not working. Anyone has more tips on what to try?
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
No success here I'm afraid... Tried to do this with a ASRock Radeon VII, followed all the steps, used the last kext posted on this thread, tried a couple of times from scratch but still getting a black screen. Not working. Anyone has more tips on what to try?

Latest 10.14.6?

Did you tried if your can can run at 981mV core voltage and HBM at 1100MHz in Windows?
 

Expo01

macrumors newbie
Sep 5, 2019
2
0
Latest 10.14.6?

Did you tried if your can can run at 981mV core voltage and HBM at 1100MHz in Windows?
I have 10.14.6 installed but don't have the time to install Windows on my Mac Pro and tinker with the Radeon VII card there. Neither do I have another Windows computer to my disposal to test stuff there... Maybe this card doesn't work for this? Is there anything else I could try maybe? Is there another way to alter the card in such a way that makes it easier to "throttle" the mV up or down?
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
I have 10.14.6 installed but don't have the time to install Windows on my Mac Pro and tinker with the Radeon VII card there. Neither do I have another Windows computer to my disposal to test stuff there... Maybe this card doesn't work for this? Is there anything else I could try maybe? Is there another way to alter the card in such a way that makes it easier to "throttle" the mV up or down?

You can read through the entire thread (include the depreciated info in post #1). And decide what you want to do.

e.g. mod the kext (so that only PP table will be injected, no other extra info involve. But hard to recover if anything goes wrong).

Or

Make your own kext (info in post #21), and only downvolt the core voltage to 1000mV, but leave all other parameter at default value.
 

thunder72fr

macrumors member
Mar 11, 2017
30
23
LE MANS, FRANCE
No issue with conflig.plist on my Hackintosh (8700k - Radeon VII):

Code:
        <key>Properties</key>
        <dict>
            <key>PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x1,0x0)/Pci(0x0,0x0)/Pci(0x0,0x0)/Pci(0x0,0x0)</key>
            <dict>
                <key>@2,AAPL,boot-display</key>
                <integer>1</integer>
                <key>PP_DisableClockStretcher</key>
                <integer>1</integer>
                <key>PP_DisablePowerContainment</key>
                <integer>1</integer>
                <key>PP_DisableULV</key>
                <integer>1</integer>
                <key>PP_EnableUploadFirmware</key>
                <integer>0</integer>
                <key>PP_Falcon_QuickTransition_Enable</key>
                <integer>1</integer>
                <key>PP_GfxOffControl</key>
                <integer>0</integer>
                <key>PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable</key>
                <data>
                wgYLAALCBjQIAACkNQAAfAAJAAAAGqoAqgCqAAAAAAB2
                AAELAAAACQcAAG4EAADMAwAAzAMAAMwDAADoAwAAyQQA
                AG4EAABuBAAANAQAACoDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAALwCAABmAQAANgEAADYBAAA2AQAAXgEAACYCAABm
                AQAAZgEAAJMAAAAOAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAABDgAAAAEBAQEBAQEBAQABAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAHQAAAJgIAACYCAAAmAgAANUDAACYCAAA1QMA
                AJgIAADVAwAAsAQAABQAAAAKDwAACg8AAF8AAABuAAAA
                AgAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAEAAABfAAAAZAAAAF8AAABk
                AAAAXwAAAGQAAABfAAAAZAAAAF8AAABkAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAKAMAACgDAAAoAwAA4gIAACgDAADiAgAAKAMA
                AOICAABeAQAAFAAAAMIBAADCAQAAGQAAADIAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABkAAAAUAAAAGQAAABQAAAAZ
                AAAAFAAAABkAAAAUAAAAGQAAABQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwAAAP/v9DkAAAAAqgAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAKoAAAAyAAAASgEAAGQAbgBeAHMAcwD/////
                //8AAAAAAAAAAAEAcwAAAAAAAAAAAPAK8AqgD6APJgAA
                AAEBCQAAAAAAAAAAAFuxvz7sUfi+ZRlSPwABCABkO58/
                Ft6lvQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABCAA1Xpo/jzYuPgAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAABCABpb7A/SDMWPQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB
                CADlYaE/EvdYvQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAwC1FYM/wt0Z
                PgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABCACGOIY/Dr4wPgAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAABCACDwFo/TaHzPQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIBCAAA
                AAAAAAAAAKRwjT/kFIW/1ecyPwIBAwAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAA1ecyPwEBCAAAAIA/AAAAANGR/D4fhSu/Mnd1
                P7wCKANuBFwFCgaTBtUG7QYJBwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                ZgHmAWsC9AJSA8wDbgRuBDYBkAEMAmsCqAL0AlIDzAM2
                AZABDAJrAqgC9AJSA8wDNgEMAjcCawKoAvQCUgPMA14B
                IANMBEwEJgJiArIC+AJmA8ADOATJBGYBxgE3AqgC9AJS
                A8wDbgRmAcYBNwKoAvQCUgPMA24EkwDyAFgB5AEVAqoD
                EwQ0BA4BHAIqAwAAAAAAAAAAAAAJB24EzAPMA8wD6ANu
                BG4ENAQqA8kEAADIACwBYAnwCigDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAkHAQAAAAAAAAIGBlAANAEAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAACQAZABkAGQAZABkAGQARQAVAtUCwoPUAAAAAAC
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAFCNlzwK16M7AAAAAOqymDyH
                okA9AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAoAABAAAA
                AAAAAKAAAAAIEAIQGgRMBOgD6APoA+gDAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACGCyILVAsAAJABkAE4AAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
                AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=
                </data>
                <key>PP_PhmUseDummyBackEnd</key>
                <integer>0</integer>
                <key>PP_ToolsLogSpaceSize</key>
                <integer>524288</integer>
            </dict>


Luxmark : 54000

Geekbench V:

Vulkan Score 71371 Windows 10 Pro
OpenCl score 84677 Windows 10 Pro

Metal Score 49572 MacOS Catalina 10.15
OpenCl score 34241 MacOS Catalina 10.15
 
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mrtang42

macrumors member
Apr 19, 2019
73
18
I confirmed it's possible to run a radeon VII with the mini 6pin ONLY (no Pixlas mod, no extra PSU, no SATA power) with my PowerPlay Table kext.

I limit the card's power draw to 204W (170 x 120%). This is NOT a random number, but when I perform tests in Windows, I found that the GPU never draw more than 202W (including gaming, unigine benchmarks, Luxmark) if I downvolt it to 981mV.
View attachment 855418

With this extra restriction, this card is now quite safe to be powered only by the mini 6pins. Even though still draw more than 75W from a mini 6pin, but even Furmark only draw up to 87W, way below the 120W shutdown protection limit.
View attachment 855413

And if we ignore Furmark, then "non power virus" power draw cap at ~85W (as expected, just tiny bit below the carefully decided limit).
View attachment 855467

So, we now limit this "300W typical power draw" graphic card to 210W (36+87+87), is there any performance penalty? The answer is, virtually NO, Luxmark / Unigine Heaven / Unigine Valley shows the card still performing at normal performance range, comparable to the factory settings.
View attachment 855414 View attachment 855415 View attachment 855416

Anyway, the kext is attached. Installation procedure at post #21. (Use at your own risk, I CANNOT guarantee the same setting work flawlessly for your Radeon VII)

Why is 120% this time? I recall you said it should be 150% somewhere before.
It will be interesting to see if you can put this card in a PC(with a more powerful PSU) with same settings.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
Why is 120% this time? I recall you said it should be 150% somewhere before.
It will be interesting to see if you can put this card in a PC(with a more powerful PSU) with same settings.

May be you mixed up my post about the MVC RX580. Some of their card seems base on a MSI ROM that has PowerPlay +50%.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Original poster
Apr 3, 2014
15,267
7,559
Hong Kong
Are you saying the power play 120% is default only on Vega VII and 150% on Vega 56?

Never mind, you are RIGHT. So bad, we can not edit Vega bios.

Every single card has its own setting.

For Radeon VII, since only reference card was ever released. They are all the same, and the PowerPlay default is +20%.

For Vega 56, there are many different version. But AFAIK, they are all defaulted to have PowerPlay +50%.

For something like RX580, different version has different Max Power Limit (W), with different PowerPlay limit.

It's just like different card can have has different fan speed limit.
 

vikikang

macrumors newbie
Sep 16, 2019
6
5
Thanks man. Your guide is absolute amazing. Just do a little OC on my Hackintosh with water-cooled Radeon VII.
Core oc to 1950. HBM to 1100.
Got a 55000 score in Luxmark.
Hope you can continue developing this guide as Catalina will be released soon.
Thanks again!!

Just try to OC the HBM a bit to 1100MHz, and now get a Luxmark score that over 53000.
View attachment 854428

In Windows, as long as I keep the voltage target at 981mV for 1801MHz (CPU-Z shows actual running at 975mV with a clock speed that just below 1800MHz), it shows no sign to enter thermal throttling. GPU keep running at about 70C (junction temperature, AKA hot spot temperature, at around 85C in Ungine Heaven loop), fan speed around 2200RPM (quite quiet indeed), always stay just a bit below 1800MHz. And the HBM can also stay at 1100MHz.

I cannot monitor the parameters directly in macOS, but since the PowerPlay table seems can work, and the fan noise suggest that the temperature should be at the same level as in Windows. So, I believe the HBM can also stay at 1100MHz without any issue in macOS.
 

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    Screen Shot 2019-09-17 at 9.23.34 AM.png
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i make movies

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2007
172
13
h9826790, thank you for all the work you've done on this. I've read through this thread a few times, and while I have limited understanding of what's going on, I have questions (and assumptions). Let me preface by saying, I use my MacPro exclusively for Resolve. I have the 12-core 3.46 GHZ 2010. I used to have a MVC Titan-X (Maxwell), but I needed to go to Mojave, so I got a MVC RX580 to update, and a AMD VII for Resolve. I'm only using one GPU at a time.

1.) What exactly is the difference between your kext from post #21 and the kext from post #35? I understand the one from #35, the VII will work using both 6-pin power. (to clarify, 6-pin to 8-pin).

2.) What would you say is more "stable": using the kext from post #35, or nothing and powering the VII with a secondary PSU?

3.) In post #21, you say "PRAM reset won't break the GPU driver. In fact, we can simply reset PRAM to disable the PP table (good for trouble shooting)." So basically, a PRAM reset will remove the kext? And to put it back, just repeat the steps of Post #21?

Thank you. I appreciate your time and efforts thus far.
 
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