How to tell if I'd benefit from 16 GB of RAM

[JLMORIART]

Howdy all, i'm new so if there is something i missed that i should have read before posting this please let me know! Also sorry for the caps lock, my 3-e-d-c keys don't work without it...

I have a mid 2010 macbook pro 7,1, 2.44 ghz processor with 4gb of ram. It has come to my attention that, though my machine was originally only spec-ed for 8 gb, it can actually handle 16, which is totally cool:
http://blog.macsales.com/16302-some-...n-they-thought

I don't know for sure, however, that i'd benefit from 16. I've checked my activity monitor at different times when i used my computer more or less intensively, and here's when it showed:

With no apps open except for activity monitor, it looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/iPco7M6.png
This seems weird to me, that 2.73 gigs are taken up with nothing open. Is that normal?

With just spotify, chrome, and photo viewer open it looks pretty much full up:
http://i.imgur.com/sX0vGmU.png

And here is the most intense use i could reasonably imagine myself putting it through:
http://i.imgur.com/zsfDJGb.png
Here i've got both garageband and sibelius (a music notation software) open, each with a significant number of tracks and effects open, along with a few other less intensive applications.

My main question is this: can anyone tell from the screenshots provided whether i'd notice a difference from 8 to 16 gigs of memory?

It'd be really nice to not have to worry about garageband constantly giving me problems about how "part of the project was not played. This project has too many real instrument tracks to be played in real-time. To optimize performance, see the 'optimizing garageband performance' page in garageband help."


One thing i notice is that memory pressure is always green, never red, even when i completely bog down my system... Is that normal? Does that mean i wouldn't benefit from more ram? Is there something else going on here?


Thanks very much for your help!


-J



Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro7,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP71.0039.B0E
SMC Version (system): 1.62f7
Serial Number (system): W803096EATP
Hardware UUID: D05694BA-18AF-5FAE-A6AF-F2DF1D261D26
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

 

[Gav Mack]

Wrong forum this is desktop Mac Pro land here.

Many have much more than 16Gb

 

[GGJstudios]

This should help: How much RAM do I need in my MacBook?

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
OP, I updated your post, changing the case from all caps to to sentence case. In case you're not aware of it, all caps is akin to yelling its rather harsh to look at.

 

[freeskier93]

OP your pictures dont work. However it seems unlikely you would need more than 8 GB. Vast majority of consumers don't need more than 4 GB and vast majority of power users don't need more than 8 GB. More than 8 GB and you're in the realm of servers and workstations that are doing heavy computing. As an example, the only time I've ever filled up 8 GB is when running flow simulations in SolidWorks, and they have to be pretty sizable simulations. For this reason I'll be upgrading my desktop to 16 GB.

Wrong forum this is desktop Mac Pro land here.

Many have much more than 16Gb

I dont think computers have come with less than 16 Gb in atleast 20 years

 

[JLMORIART]

OP your pictures dont work. However it seems unlikely you would need more than 8 GB. Vast majority of consumers don't need more than 4 GB and vast majority of power users don't need more than 8 GB. More than 8 GB and you're in the realm of servers and workstations that are doing heavy computing. As an example, the only time I've ever filled up 8 GB is when running flow simulations in SolidWorks, and they have to be pretty sizable simulations. For this reason I'll be upgrading my desktop to 16 GB.



I dont think computers have come with less than 16 Gb in atleast 20 years

Looks like i'll be going with 8 gigs then, thanks for the responses. Any idea why i'm nearly out of ram only running chrome, spotify, and picture viewer? And does it makes sense that even though i'm totally bogged down at points, activity monitor still shows memory pressure as green?

Does that mean the issue isn't ram? Maybe it's my cpu?

[MOD NOTE]
OP, I updated your post, changing the case from all caps to to sentence case. In case you're not aware of it, all caps is akin to yelling its rather harsh to look at.

Thank you so much for doing that! I had never heard of "sentence case" so when ever i tried to search something that would convert my text into something readable i'd always searched "un-caps lock" or something to that effect, which was never very helpful...

 

[GGJstudios]

I dont think computers have come with less than 16 Gb in atleast 20 years

I'm guessing this is sarcasm, since it's obviously not true.

Any idea why i'm nearly out of ram only running chrome, spotify, and picture viewer? And does it makes sense that even though i'm totally bogged down at points, activity monitor still shows memory pressure as green?

It is quite normal for all of your memory to be in use by OS X. It does not mean that you are running out of memory or that it is maxed out. OS X will manage all available memory, making it available to apps on an as-needed basis. Refer to the following Apple support article for more information on how to understand your Activity Monitor readings.

OS X Mavericks: About Activity Monitor​

The combination of Free, Wired, Active, Inactive & Used memory statistics in previous versions of Activity Monitor have been replaced in Mavericks with an easy to read "Memory Pressure" graph.
Memory pressure is indicated by color:

• Green – RAM memory resources are available.
• Amber – RAM memory resources are being tasked.
• Red – RAM memory resources are depleted and OS X is using the drive for memory.

 

[NOTNlCE]

If I might make a recommendation - it might be a good idea to jump to 10GB of RAM. Keeping one of your current 2GB sticks of RAM and adding in a single 8GB stick might be more economical in the long run. Though your machine is 4 years old, should you find yourself needing 16GB of RAM down the road, you'll only need to replace 1 stick instead of 2.

-N

 

[JLMORIART]

It is quite normal for all of your memory to be in use by OS X. It does not mean that you are running out of memory or that it is maxed out. OS X will manage all available memory, making it available to apps on an as-needed basis. Refer to the following Apple support article for more information on how to understand your Activity Monitor readings.

OS X Mavericks: About Activity Monitor​

That's good to know, thanks. Then my question becomes this. Any ideas as to why my computer seems slow?? When i have more than a few apps open it's very clunky, in spite of what activity monitor says about my ram and what all the info here is saying about how i shouldn't need much more than 4 gigs let alone more than 8.

In activity monitor it looks like in times like those my idle cpu is under 10%, sometimes hovering around 3 or 4%. Could this be the culprit? And if so, should i just stick with 4 gigs of ram and wait to upgrade to a whole new machine? My impression is that cpu is not upgradeable in a mac.

Thanks again!

----------

If I might make a recommendation - it might be a good idea to jump to 10GB of RAM. Keeping one of your current 2GB sticks of RAM and adding in a single 8GB stick might be more economical in the long run. Though your machine is 4 years old, should you find yourself needing 16GB of RAM down the road, you'll only need to replace 1 stick instead of 2.

-N

Great idea, thanks! I hadn't even considered doing an amount other than 2, 4, 8, or 16... DUH xP

Edit: i assume since it turns out that my machine can handle 16 that it can handle 10, but i don't know for sure.

 

[GGJstudios]

That's good to know, thanks. Then my question becomes this. Any ideas as to why my computer seems slow??

If you're having performance issues, this may help:

Performance Tips For Mac OS X​

In activity monitor it looks like in times like those my idle cpu is under 10%, sometimes hovering around 3 or 4%. Could this be the culprit?

Obviously, your CPU isn't being taxed, so that's not the source of your issues.

And if so, should i just stick with 4 gigs of ram and wait to upgrade to a whole new machine?

If Activity Monitor is always showing in the green, adding more RAM will not improve your performance, as you're not maxing out the RAM you have.

 

[Gav Mack]

OP your pictures dont work. However it seems unlikely you would need more than 8 GB. Vast majority of consumers don't need more than 4 GB and vast majority of power users don't need more than 8 GB. More than 8 GB and you're in the realm of servers and workstations that are doing heavy computing. As an example, the only time I've ever filled up 8 GB is when running flow simulations in SolidWorks, and they have to be pretty sizable simulations. For this reason I'll be upgrading my desktop to 16 GB.



I dont think computers have come with less than 16 Gb in atleast 20 years

I feel a bit inferior having to drop from 32 to 24gb going from Mac Pro 3,1 to 4,1. Dual 6 core upgrade soon will restore that to 48gb

Photoshop, premiere, multitasking and soon to be solid works too! I have over 100 flow simulations to do and i don't want to hang about

 

[JLMORIART]

I dont think computers have come with less than 16 Gb in atleast 20 years

Ohhhhhh are GB gigabytes and Gb gigabits??? Hahaha ok i think i'm up to speed now...

 

[2984839]

Your last screenshot shows that you aren't even close to running out of RAM with 4 GB under your heaviest workload. You won't notice a difference with 8 , much less 16.

 

[glenthompson]

Your sluggishness may be due to disk IO. Consider upgrading to a SSD. One of the best performance improvements you can make.

 

[freeskier93]

I feel a bit inferior having to drop from 32 to 24gb going from Mac Pro 3,1 to 4,1. Dual 6 core upgrade soon will restore that to 48gb

Photoshop, premiere, multitasking and soon to be solid works too! I have over 100 flow simulations to do and i don't want to hang about

The 12 core might not actually do very well with SolidWorks. It is my understanding SolidWorks does not utilize multiple cores and is very frequency dependent.

 

[Meister]

My main question is this: can anyone tell from the screenshots provided whether i'd notice a difference from 8 to 16 gigs of memory?

From 4 to 8, yes. From 8 to 16, no.

It'd be really nice to not have to worry about garageband constantly giving me problems about how "part of the project was not played. This project has too many real instrument tracks to be played in real-time. To optimize performance, see the 'optimizing garageband performance' page in garageband help."

not sure if that is memory related. Sounds like a software issue, but I am not a garage band user myself.

One thing i notice is that memory pressure is always green, never red, even when i completely bog down my system... Is that normal? Does that mean i wouldn't benefit from more ram? Is there something else going on here?

Your memory pressure is moderate, but you might see a slight difference with 8 over 4gb. 16gb for your usage is overkill at this time.

If I were you I would invest in an ssd upgrade over anything else first.

 

[Gav Mack]

The 12 core might not actually do very well with SolidWorks. It is my understanding SolidWorks does not utilize multiple cores and is very frequency dependent.

In Windows I know it will run multiple simulations running both CPU's and will be on bootcamp for this. With x5690's at 3.46/3.73 turbo with a PCIe Apple nMP blade I can cut the time down significantly.

 

[maflynn]

Thank you so much for doing that! I had never heard of "sentence case" so when ever i tried to search something that would convert my text into something readable i'd always searched "un-caps lock" or something to that effect, which was never very helpful...

That's what Microsoft word called it when I copied your post in Word to change the case. I have no idea what it should be called

 

[JLMORIART]

CPU looks like source of problem

If you're having performance issues, this may help:

Performance Tips For Mac OS X​

Obviously, your CPU isn't being taxed, so that's not the source of your issues.

I have a bit of an update, it looks like the cpu is definitely being taxed (and heavily) when I run garageband. Here is activity monitor's look at the CPU when Garageband is closed:
http://i.imgur.com/UmPOpUu.png

Here it is with Garageband open:
http://i.imgur.com/HKiTSF7.png

And here it is with Garageband playing a large-ish project:
http://i.imgur.com/PeGzHej.png

Usually when Garageband hits the percents in the high 90s, that's when the playhead turns red and I get the system overload error. Oddly enough, sometimes it'll end up with GB taking up some huge unreal percentage, like 123%, while the playhead stays yellow and there is still idle CPU:
http://i.imgur.com/o9MFHXf.png

I don't understand what's going on here. If the system overload happens, it's consistently when the playhead turns red and GB is taking up near 100% of my CPU's resources. But other times it shows Garageband taking up 123% with only moderate stress.

Could it be that sometimes, the CPU is handling the brunt of the load, and other times it is sharing the task with another piece of hardware that is working intermittently?

Should the cpu be handling the things Garageband does at all, or might there be a problem with my ram that it gets deferred to the CPU?


Also, I have an "Alesis Multimix8" USB Audio interface and mixer and, when I set it as Garageband's audio device, the system overload message happens much much less often. And though GB still shows very high percentages of CPU usage (>120%), there is this time plenty of idle CPU left over.

I've done a little research but can't find anything about it... Can I download a virtual soundcard for OSX so that the Ram is taxed instead of my CPU? Using my mixer all the time is a hack solution because A. I can't take it everywhere, and B. it's a pain to change the Audio Device all the time in GB.

Thanks everyone for your help!

John

PS One more issue that I do have which is probably better suited for a GB forums is that, when I switch to the Alesis Audio device, sometimes I get this error:
http://i.imgur.com/C3PrXd3.png

 

[chanwbkenneth]

2 years back, my Macbook Pro 15" 4GB ram lags like mad everytime I open 2 or more programs. I have since installed 2 modules of 8GB RAM and 2 years down, I would say that it is the best decision of my life. I have no idea why would they sell their laptops with 4GB RAM, the system_kernel already runs 1.2GB at startup.

 

[JLMORIART]

Fixed it by zapping PRAM

Hi again all. Seems like I've found a solution. I "zapped my Pram", and not only did Garageband stop giving me the system overload message, but my entire system is running much much much more quickly. Who knows what funky data ended up getting written to that space over the four years I've had this computer, but zapping it did the trick, or at least it has for 36 hours and counting.

Thanks again for all your help, and if you see anyone else with the same problem please tell them to zap their PRAM! (And of course, backup any important data first.)

http://support.apple.com/kb/PH14222?viewlocale=en_US

 

[snaky69]

The 12 core might not actually do very well with SolidWorks. It is my understanding SolidWorks does not utilize multiple cores and is very frequency dependent.

CAD is single core, but simulations run across all cores.

(Solidworks user on the daily).

 

[freeskier93]

CAD is single core, but simulations run across all cores.

(Solidworks user on the daily).

Hmm, sure enough. Should have just checked for myself. Maybe I was thinking of graphics acceleration that it doesn't utilize.