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telepati

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 20, 2009
509
334
I almost died today. I haven't opened my MacBook for a long time, and I plugged in and waited for the battery to update. After 2 hours, the battery began to swell and detach. At first, I did not understand what happened, I noticed that the MacBook started to rise and immediately unplug the power plug and wait for it to cool. When I turned it around, the battery was swollen and detached. It was very difficult to dislodge. The result is like in the video. I hardly ever used this MacBook. It was standing there. It's so clean you won't even find dust inside. I did not understand what happened. It turned into the trash before I could use my Macbook. Thanks, Apple.

 
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Yep, it's only Apple batteries specifically that this happens to. It's not a chemistry thing, it's actually top secret self destruct code written into the battery management module.


Thank you Sir, for outing this outrageous behaviour.
 
Incase you're seriously concerned OP, do some Googling/YouTubing and you'll see this is what's expected when the battery reaches the end of its life. There's no explosions or pop like an airbag. The slow swelling is caused by gases from the reaction inside. This is the safest design to protect the user, environment and whatever application the battery is used in.
 
Incase you're seriously concerned OP, do some Googling/YouTubing and you'll see this is what's expected when the battery reaches the end of its life. There's no explosions or pop like an airbag. The slow swelling is caused by gases from the reaction inside. This is the safest design to protect the user, environment and whatever application the battery is used in.

How does it reach the end of battery life on an unused computer that I don't understand? I have charged this computer up to 50 times. Maybe less but not more.

Maybe it's because it's not in use and it's waiting. Battery drained itself and when I connect to the power it swelled suddenly.
 
How does it reach the end of battery life on an unused computer that I don't understand? I have charged this computer up to 50 times. Maybe less but not more.

Maybe it's because it's not in use and it's waiting. Battery drained itself and when I connect to the power it swelled suddenly.

That could be true, another guess is that the battery had a manufacturing defect that only showed now, 11 years after production, because it was hardly used. I think it's a unique case and an example of how fragile these batteries can be.
 
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How does it reach the end of battery life on an unused computer that I don't understand? I have charged this computer up to 50 times. Maybe less but not more.

Maybe it's because it's not in use and it's waiting. Battery drained itself and when I connect to the power it swelled suddenly.
You charged this less than 50 times in 11 years? Why do you even own this thing?
 
You charged this less than 50 times in 11 years? Why do you even own this thing?

I bought iMac same time and never used this. I've been turning this machine on once a year, just updating and closing it. As I said never used it.
 
How does it reach the end of battery life on an unused computer that I don't understand? I have charged this computer up to 50 times. Maybe less but not more.

Maybe it's because it's not in use and it's waiting. Battery drained itself and when I connect to the power it swelled suddenly.


Batteries have a finite lifespan. The chemicals in them are active whether you use it or not.
 
Thank you guys for your attention. I learned a lot today about the battery.
 
Batteries can age without being cycled, it is called calendar aging. This type of aging depends on the battery temperature and state of charge throughout the time. The behavior that you observed is probably due to the electrolyte decomposition, which releases different type of gases.
 
For a 2009 MBP, probably not worth fixing.

However -- perhaps you could take the bad battery OUT, and perhaps run it without a battery inside. Of course, it would have to be hooked up to the charger all the time.
 
Thanks, Apple.

Macbooks have a 3 year warranty. Batteries are good for 3 years. A "reasonable" life expectancy for any pc/laptop is 5 years. Beyond that is gravy.

Your macbook is 11 years old. Apple's responsibility for your machine ended 8 years ago.

How does it reach the end of battery life on an unused computer

Go buy a box of AAAs. There will be an expiry date on them.
Leave a set of AAAs in a device and don't use it. They will start to leak.

This is what batteries do when they are well beyond end of design life (in this case, beyond design EOL by 8 years).



edit:
Above is not fanboyism. If you were complaining about an 11 year old DELL/Acer/Gateway/etc. i would have written exactly the same.
 
should I expect to get peed on in another few years from my computer? so leaky
 
This is one of the ways a lithium ion batteries die, but its not the worst way.

As batteries age their internal resistance increases which causes higher temps which cause higher resistance and so on (thermal runaway).

The first safety built into consumer lithium ion batteries is a device that opens the battery circuit to stop electrical flow to the device. I believe this is around 140f - 150f.

Secondly and its not uncommon, is to also see a battery that is "slightly" swollen when it dies. Sometimes you can even notice it without measuring it. This is another safety device that opens the circuit to stop electric flow when the batteries internal pressure reaches 100-200 psi.

The third safety to keep you from dying and what you experienced is a battery swelling up like a balloon. This is only common enough that we've all heard about it across various devices but unlike the first two we all haven't experienced it. The metallic wrapper on a lithium ion battery is designed to make room for the gases in the event of an over charge, charging from an over discharged state and/or internal short circuit. You likely checked 2 of those boxes. That wrapper is designed to hold 300-400 psi after dramatically increasing its size to contain the gases produced at the battery overheated. You battery likely was at the bare minimum the charger would allow it to charge from (once it drops too low it won't charge it anymore) due to lack of use, and its age/wear had mild short causing discharge through the separators (barrier between the cathode and anode).

There is a little bit of irony at this point because if your MBA would have reduced its performance (power consumption) to account for the battery (say for example like Apple did with the iPhone when everyone was calling foul) this MIGHT have been prevented since internal battery shorts are something that happens over time. I digress....

Finally, its last "safety" is to prevent an explosion. To do this there is a vent built into the metallic wrapper that will allow a controlled pressure relief (like a water heaters T&P valve) when pressures exceed 450-500 PSI. Generally this relief in pressure prevents the lithium from igniting.

All bets are off if you puncture the battery. A spark could cause a fire, and a laptop battery could cause serious injury or property damage. You are best off throw the device on the drive way and cover it with something that won't burn until it cools off, then let it sit a couple more hours.

The main concern is temperature. All the safeties are built around allowing the battery to cool to prevent the the lithium from igniting. Because of that though the battery can be scalding and cause severe burns with direct contact so its more of a concern for a device in your pocket (iPhone) or a wearable like the Apple Watch.

When a battery is discharged and the device turns off there is plenty of power left in it. iPhone for example will have 3volts (fully charged is 4.2volts). If it drops too far past that it becomes too dangerous to charge because of the internal resistance and heat build up. Devices will report the battery has failed when plugged in or or not do anything at all.

My experience from all of the above comes in here. If you use an external power source to slowly charge the battery you can bring it back to the point the OEM charger will work again. It something I do at work on occasion for handheld communication equipment that people let die then put it on a shelf for a year(s). I only do this to batteries I know have low cycle counts and should be usable if they would have been properly maintained. Most of the time it works just fine, occasionally it fails because I'm not patient enough and don't limit current (500mA), more rare the battery will swell up a little then go open circuit, and couple times they swelled up like balloons. I due this in a professional fire proof container (tool box lined with duct tape) but never had one vent or explode yet.

TL;DR

This is one of the few ways a lithium battery will completely die. A battery that is old + worn (many cycles) + been self discharging for a long period of time = recipe for more catastrophic battery failure. This is common with laptops due to how people use them. If anyone has a laptop they have to keep plugged in because the battery only last an hour I would highly advice you remove/replace it. Especially if during that hour of use you can feel it getting HOT.
 
Great post! thanks for the write up, great real world info here!


This is one of the ways a lithium ion batteries die, but its not the worst way.

As batteries age their internal resistance increases which causes higher temps which cause higher resistance and so on (thermal runaway).

The first safety built into consumer lithium ion batteries is a device that opens the battery circuit to stop electrical flow to the device. I believe this is around 140f - 150f.

Secondly and its not uncommon, is to also see a battery that is "slightly" swollen when it dies. Sometimes you can even notice it without measuring it. This is another safety device that opens the circuit to stop electric flow when the batteries internal pressure reaches 100-200 psi.

The third safety to keep you from dying and what you experienced is a battery swelling up like a balloon. This is only common enough that we've all heard about it across various devices but unlike the first two we all haven't experienced it. The metallic wrapper on a lithium ion battery is designed to make room for the gases in the event of an over charge, charging from an over discharged state and/or internal short circuit. You likely checked 2 of those boxes. That wrapper is designed to hold 300-400 psi after dramatically increasing its size to contain the gases produced at the battery overheated. You battery likely was at the bare minimum the charger would allow it to charge from (once it drops too low it won't charge it anymore) due to lack of use, and its age/wear had mild short causing discharge through the separators (barrier between the cathode and anode).

There is a little bit of irony at this point because if your MBA would have reduced its performance (power consumption) to account for the battery (say for example like Apple did with the iPhone when everyone was calling foul) this MIGHT have been prevented since internal battery shorts are something that happens over time. I digress....

Finally, its last "safety" is to prevent an explosion. To do this there is a vent built into the metallic wrapper that will allow a controlled pressure relief (like a water heaters T&P valve) when pressures exceed 450-500 PSI. Generally this relief in pressure prevents the lithium from igniting.

All bets are off if you puncture the battery. A spark could cause a fire, and a laptop battery could cause serious injury or property damage. You are best off throw the device on the drive way and cover it with something that won't burn until it cools off, then let it sit a couple more hours.

The main concern is temperature. All the safeties are built around allowing the battery to cool to prevent the the lithium from igniting. Because of that though the battery can be scalding and cause severe burns with direct contact so its more of a concern for a device in your pocket (iPhone) or a wearable like the Apple Watch.

When a battery is discharged and the device turns off there is plenty of power left in it. iPhone for example will have 3volts (fully charged is 4.2volts). If it drops too far past that it becomes too dangerous to charge because of the internal resistance and heat build up. Devices will report the battery has failed when plugged in or or not do anything at all.

My experience from all of the above comes in here. If you use an external power source to slowly charge the battery you can bring it back to the point the OEM charger will work again. It something I do at work on occasion for handheld communication equipment that people let die then put it on a shelf for a year(s). I only do this to batteries I know have low cycle counts and should be usable if they would have been properly maintained. Most of the time it works just fine, occasionally it fails because I'm not patient enough and don't limit current (500mA), more rare the battery will swell up a little then go open circuit, and couple times they swelled up like balloons. I due this in a professional fire proof container (tool box lined with duct tape) but never had one vent or explode yet.

TL;DR

This is one of the few ways a lithium battery will completely die. A battery that is old + worn (many cycles) + been self discharging for a long period of time = recipe for more catastrophic battery failure. This is common with laptops due to how people use them. If anyone has a laptop they have to keep plugged in because the battery only last an hour I would highly advice you remove/replace it. Especially if during that hour of use you can feel it getting HOT.
 
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