I have to commend O2/Apple's vice like grip over us.

[frontman]

The title may suggest otherwise but actually I am a fairly happy O2/Apple/iPhone customer. But they don't half have us over a barrel right now, shafting us gleefully with the upgrade stick!!

I currently have a 16GB 3G iPhone on £45 tariff with 9 months remaining on contract.

A new 3Gs iPhone is being offered to me by O2 for £100 and £360 payment to terminate existing contract. Yes, £460 to upgrade AND then commitment to another 24 months contract.

24 MONTHS!?!? Are they mental?

I am growing tired of being forced into a corner like this, with no other option than to pay over the next 2 years minimum £1540 (plus insurance etc) to own an iPhone.

Bottom line, why put people on 24 months contract only to release new handsets ever year only to make us pay the remaining contract, phone and future contract too?

I cannot believe these phones are any more expensive or subsidised than back in the 80's and 90's when we all did 12 months contracts and followed a nice, easy upgrade path.

 

[rph105]

Say NO to the upgrade I'm entitled to renew my contract 1 month early - December 2009, 6 months before the NEW iPhone is released at WWDC '10. FAIL!

If us current iPhone users say NO to O2 watch how fast they'll drop prices and offer FREE upgrades, their already getting crazy slack via http://twitter.com/O2

 

[matttye]

Nobody from Apple or O2 are forcing you to upgrade.

You signed a two year contract. You're only one year into that contract. Why on earth would they now let you upgrade without fulfilling the remainder of your contract? They would be losing money.

Nobody is forcing a gun to your head and demanding that you buy the new iPhone, so either pay the early upgrade fee or stay in your existing contract, you have a choice!

 

[arkitect]

I have to commend O2/Apple's vice like grip over us.

Commend?

Dictionary: com·mend |kə-mĕnd'|
1. To represent as worthy, qualified, or desirable; recommend.
2. To express approval of; praise. See synonyms at praise.

You're approving of something you disapprove of?
Hummm.



Perhaps not the right word?

 

[Razeus]

....stop whining.

your 3G will not stop working because a new iPhone came out.

In fact, all phones work like this. You get a phone, you're in for 2 years, you upgrade to the greatest thing when said 2 years are up. You should be praising Apple for continually maintaining the device and software via updates. Most phone makers just release a model and that model is done with after 9-12 months, for them to release a completely new device. Just because you have no self control doesn't mean it's O2's fault. Maybe you should get a hobby so your self worth isn't place in an electronic device. You won't feel so bad and go into a rage just because a piece of electronics came out that bests yours.

 

[frontman]

Ok,

Here's the thing:

You signed a two year contract. - No I didn't, it was 18 months.

Matttye - I think its an unacceptable model to put people on contracts of up to TWO YEARS on a product which is marketed and designed to be upgraded every 12 months.

PLEASE NO ONE tell me what I signed or agreed to, or that I have choice... because I did not have choice, not really. I HAD to sign an 18 month contract and then watch a new phone being release 9-12 months later. Not 12 months, but 18, and now O2 are telling me the 24 MONTH contract would be my best option.

Please don't state the obvious at me, I know what I signed, you are not (hopefully) a robotic call centre staff member, so lets avoid the kiddie stuff shall we?

Why would 24 months be better? Because in 12 months from now there will be ANOTHER new iPhone and maybe then the mugs that got the free phone this time round will then pay 12 months PLUS ANOTHER 24 months after that!

So in 2 years you've essentially paid for a whopping 42 MONTHS!

Year one paid plus 6 extra (buyout) + 12 more months paid plus another 12 (buyout) = 24 months online but 42 paid for.

Now, if you CHOOSE to keep your pocket technology up to date, then you HAVE to accept that you pay as much as the above.

If you think that's a FAIR model, I pity you frankly, if you think its a GENIUS business model then I'm with you!

Like I said, in the "old days", when I worked for Vodafone, we subsidised handsets, of course we did, but you had a fair and balanced upgrade path after 11 months.

If I REALLY had CHOICE, then why cant I buy my new handset at a medium-subsidised cost, and take a 12 month contract?

If I REALLY had CHOICE, then why cant I change my tariff straight to the £30 a month tariff now? Why can I only drop one tariff bracket per month?

arkitect - Thank you for your dictionary definition. As a clear competent user of online dictionary resources, may I encourage you to look up "sarcasm" in there

Razeus - Don't be rude matey, I am not whining, I am making a valid point about the nature of iPhone operations at O2. I think its unfair, you are in no position to tell me so arrogantly that I do not have the right to voice my thoughts and opinions.

Anyway, there you go. I have other options open to me than to follow this route, I was merely showing you just how incredibly brilliant this model is at getting the desire in people to part with possibly thousands of pounds simply to own a mobile phone.

If this phone was on multiple networks, or unlockable, you would not have this issue. This is called "a monopoly". Welcome to its effects!

Happy to hear your comments.

 

[Revelation78]

Ok,

Here's the thing:

You signed a two year contract. - No I didn't, it was 18 months.

Matttye - I think its an unacceptable model to put people on contracts of up to TWO YEARS on a product which is marketed and designed to be upgraded every 12 months.

PLEASE NO ONE tell me what I signed or agreed to, or that I have choice... because I did not have choice, not really. I HAD to sign an 18 month contract and then watch a new phone being release 9-12 months later. Not 12 months, but 18, and now O2 are telling me the 24 MONTH contract would be my best option.

Please don't state the obvious at me, I know what I signed, you are not (hopefully) a robotic call centre staff member, so lets avoid the kiddie stuff shall we?

Why would 24 months be better? Because in 12 months from now there will be ANOTHER new iPhone and maybe then the mugs that got the free phone this time round will then pay 12 months PLUS ANOTHER 24 months after that!

So in 2 years you've essentially paid for a whopping 42 MONTHS!

Year one paid plus 6 extra (buyout) + 12 more months paid plus another 12 (buyout) = 24 months online but 42 paid for.

Now, if you CHOOSE to keep your pocket technology up to date, then you HAVE to accept that you pay as much as the above.

If you think that's a FAIR model, I pity you frankly, if you think its a GENIUS business model then I'm with you!

Like I said, in the "old days", when I worked for Vodafone, we subsidised handsets, of course we did, but you had a fair and balanced upgrade path after 11 months.

If I REALLY had CHOICE, then why cant I buy my new handset at a medium-subsidised cost, and take a 12 month contract?

If I REALLY had CHOICE, then why cant I change my tariff straight to the £30 a month tariff now? Why can I only drop one tariff bracket per month?

arkitect - Thank you for your dictionary definition. As a clear competent user of online dictionary resources, may I encourage you to look up "sarcasm" in there

Razeus - Don't be rude matey, I am not whining, I am making a valid point about the nature of iPhone operations at O2. I think its unfair, you are in no position to tell me so arrogantly that I do not have the right to voice my thoughts and opinions.

Anyway, there you go. I have other options open to me than to follow this route, I was merely showing you just how incredibly brilliant this model is at getting the desire in people to part with possibly thousands of pounds simply to own a mobile phone.

If this phone was on multiple networks, or unlockable, you would not have this issue. This is called "a monopoly". Welcome to its effects!

Happy to hear your comments.

No, dude you are whining. You did have a choice, you DID NOT have to buy the iPhone. Everyone who had half a brain new the iPhones were on a yearly refresh cycle. If you didn't well that's your own fault.

So what if a new iPhone has come out and you can't get it really cheap, that's life! Why are you not crying on the BB, Nokia, Samsung, etc... forums, all cell phone manufacturers release new models EVERY YEAR.

When you decide to grow up and accept responsibility for your own choices, life will be better. If you want to act like a child and keep blaming your "misfortunes" on somebody else, you'll always feel like someone is out to get you.

 

[hotpace1]

Commend?

Dictionary: com·mend |kə-mĕnd'|
1. To represent as worthy, qualified, or desirable; recommend.
2. To express approval of; praise. See synonyms at praise.

You're approving of something you disapprove of?
Hummm.



Perhaps not the right word?

He's being sarcastic surely?

And I agree with him entirely. The reason people don't cry and whinge ant Nokia/Samsung etc is that their phones come out and at the very least are FREE with a new contract as oppose to the £274 for a 3GS! At least with the other phones you may have to cancel your contract early for around £200 but you could recoup that (or a good amount of it) by selling your old phone, and then get a new model on a new contract. With iPhones its getting on for £500 and its just stupid now! And like has already been said, even if you do that then in one year you're back to square one! 24 month contracts are diabolical and I will never sign one as long as there's a choice! The quicker these AT&T/O2 and other exclusive monopolies are finished the better! I'm really surprised Apple wanted to go down the exclusive route so much as they are now held over a barrel by the phone companies as to what is alllowed and what isn't allowed. There is simply no point having the most amazing mini computer in your pocket if it simply isn't allowed to do so much of the stuff it could! Slingmedia over 3G. Nope. Tethering. Nope, not unless you pay us additional money for a 3gb capped service and not at all in the States until AT&T decide. MMS. Not until AT&T decide again.

I hate to say this but I think the iPhone model is starting to become an expensive hassle rather than the joy it should be. I hope the Pre really takes off (although for some strange reason thats gonna be exclusive to O2 as well in the UK) and the Google phones start getting better and the exclusivity contracts all get torn up. Then the fun and games will really begin for us as competition always favours the consumer!

 

[alFR]

Matttye - I think its an unacceptable model to put people on contracts of up to TWO YEARS on a product which is marketed and designed to be upgraded every 12 months.

To be fair, that's irrelevant. This is just the way mobile phone companies work - always have, hopefully won't always do so but for now we just have to put up with it I'm afraid. I expect things to change significantly when O2's exclusivity deal ends - at that point I'd be very surprised if you couldn't buy a SIM-free iPhone in the Apple Store and go to whichever carrier you like for a SIM-only deal.

Why would 24 months be better? Because in 12 months from now there will be ANOTHER new iPhone and maybe then the mugs that got the free phone this time round will then pay 12 months PLUS ANOTHER 24 months after that!

You don't have to upgrade yearly - IMHO you'd be daft to, esp. now if you have a 3G at the moment. Why? Because you'll get over 90% of the functionality of the 3GS for free with OS 3.0. OK, one feature or other out of the 3GS-specific ones may be a "must-have" for you: if so, you have to work out if it's worth the money to upgrade. If it's video you're concerned with, why not keep the 3G, buy a Flip Mino HD and save yourself a potload of cash?

It looks like the iPhone will work out just the same as iPods have been for years - incremental upgrades every 12 months. Every 2 years looks like the smart timescale for upgrading to me: why not do that and take advantage of the cheaper hardware price on a 24-month contract?

 

[arkitect]

Thank you for your dictionary definition. As a clear competent user of online dictionary resources, may I encourage you to look up "sarcasm" in there

He's being sarcastic surely?

Alas, on a forum like this, sarcasm doesn't carry across very well, especially such subtle sarcasm as frontman employs… in fact so subtle is frontman's use, it is completely transparent…

 

[frontman]

I am VERY transparent arkitect, yes, no bad thing either my friend, you wont see me hiding behind smoke and mirrors.

I'm really only interested in putting forward my views of the O2/Apple upgrade model, I am slightly embarrassed that some less-than-articulate posters choose to try and provoke with talk of "whining" and the like. I'll let these Sun "Dear Deirdre" readers continue to focus on that side of things, if you could hear my tone of voice you would know I am not whining, I am highlighting the truth behind the model as it exists today. So thanks for your comments, but I think you might be missing Jeremy Kyle repeats on Sky, so see you next time!!

I have every right to want to upgrade once a year, EVERY RIGHT indeed, its something we always had, for the last decade until the iPhone came along and brought with it 18 and 24 month contracts, until then it was almost all 12 months. As a result the high users, the web savvy, the gadget-dependent of us ARE BEING BENT OVER A BARREL AND SHAFTED FOR FEES THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY.

They're the facts of it.

I will continue to use my iPhone, I will most likely even pick up the new model too, but if you havent yet opened your eyes to the hidden complexities and the long-term strategies of O2's upgrade model, then seriously, you are missing a trick.

 

[mgamber]

No, dude you are whining. You did have a choice, you DID NOT have to buy the iPhone. Everyone who had half a brain new the iPhones were on a yearly refresh cycle. If you didn't well that's your own fault.

So what if a new iPhone has come out and you can't get it really cheap, that's life! Why are you not crying on the BB, Nokia, Samsung, etc... forums, all cell phone manufacturers release new models EVERY YEAR.

When you decide to grow up and accept responsibility for your own choices, life will be better. If you want to act like a child and keep blaming your "misfortunes" on somebody else, you'll always feel like someone is out to get you.

Whining, crying, grow up....god, what a pissy little b*tch! Could you possibly be any more condescending?

 

[smiddlehurst]

Ok,

PLEASE NO ONE tell me what I signed or agreed to, or that I have choice... because I did not have choice, not really. I HAD to sign an 18 month contract and then watch a new phone being release 9-12 months later. Not 12 months, but 18, and now O2 are telling me the 24 MONTH contract would be my best option.

Please don't state the obvious at me, I know what I signed, you are not (hopefully) a robotic call centre staff member, so lets avoid the kiddie stuff shall we?

I'm sorry, I really am, but kiddie stuff is saying you had no choice but to sign a contract that you weren't happy with. If you want to get into the adult stuff then you knew damn well what you were getting into. You knew that as with EVERY OTHER HANDSET MANUFACTURER ON THE PLANET Apple were unlikely to have an 18 month gap between product launches. You knew that in order to get an iPhone on contract you had to sign up for a minimum of 18 months. You knew that if you wanted the flexibility to upgrade above all else then the best option was to buy a PAYG phone.

NONE of this is news to you, O2 didn't hide the fact you were on an 18 month contract. Apple haven't hidden the fact they'd be working on new hardware on an ongoing basis. You knew exactly what you were getting into and it's childish in the extreme to claim that you had no choice because you wanted the latest shiny thing.

Actually, while we're on the subject, why are Apple Fanbois (and it is the fans at this point) being so damn whiny about new product coming out within the life of their contract? Name me one phone that ISN'T replaced by its manufacturer as a flagship phone within 18 months. Maybe one of the Motorla devices lasted that long but only because Motorola is in a deep dark pit of financial trouble at the moment. The N95 and N96 from Nokia got... what, a year as the flagship? From memory the N95 got about 6 to eight months before the N95 8Gb came along, that in turn got... I think about a year before the N96 was released and the new N97 is just about out now so the N96 got 9 months.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Nobody from Apple or O2 are forcing you to upgrade.

You signed a two year contract. You're only one year into that contract. Why on earth would they now let you upgrade without fulfilling the remainder of your contract? They would be losing money.

Nobody is forcing a gun to your head and demanding that you buy the new iPhone, so either pay the early upgrade fee or stay in your existing contract, you have a choice!

Agreed. I have two lines that are not eligible to upgrade until September and November. I can wait a few months, it won't kill me.

To the OP, I would suggest, when your contract runs out in January 2010 and you are eligible for upgrade pricing to simply wait. It is what I would do in your position.

 

[Revelation78]

Whining, crying, grow up....god, what a pissy little b*tch! Could you possibly be any more condescending?

Actually I could - that was me being nice...

 

[hotpace1]

Alas, on a forum like this, sarcasm doesn't carry across very well, especially such subtle sarcasm as frontman employs… in fact so subtle is frontman's use, it is completely transparent…

It really isn't that transparent. I understood exactly what he meant immediately! Then again I'm British and we're quite a sarcastic bunch of bastards! I'm assuming you're American Arkitekt?

 

[instaxgirl]

I have every right to want to upgrade once a year, EVERY RIGHT indeed, its something we always had, for the last decade until the iPhone came along and brought with it 18 and 24 month contracts, until then it was almost all 12 months.

Yes, you are fully entitled to the right to want to upgrade every year. This does not mean you have the right to actually upgrade every year.

Alsooo, the last 18 month contract I had? I took it out before the iPhone was released, 12 month contracts were already becoming a rarity.

 

[NStocks]

I have also emailed o2, saying that the prices are extraordinary and having been a o2 customer for 6 years, why will you give me discount on phones except the iPhone ?

They replied and basically said :

Thank for you interest in iPhone 3GS

You can buy it from...
You can buy it at...
The number for your nearest o2 store is...

And just provided me with about 6 links for useless information that wasn't in relation to my question... I think they have no answers for the stupid prices.

 

[frontman]

I think its SOME contract term issue, but mainly the UPGRADE options that I am talking about here. I think they could be better. And also the fact you cannot freely move tariff, even after 9 months.

 

[matttye]

Matttye - I think its an unacceptable model to put people on contracts of up to TWO YEARS on a product which is marketed and designed to be upgraded every 12 months.

Then you shouldn't have signed an 18 month contract. Again - just because the iPhone is updated yearly doesn't mean you have to buy the new one every time!

 

[instaxgirl]

Actually, while we're on the subject, why are Apple Fanbois (and it is the fans at this point) being so damn whiny about new product coming out within the life of their contract? Name me one phone that ISN'T replaced by its manufacturer as a flagship phone within 18 months.

Seems O2 may have made misstep with the original iPhone being unsubsidised and the 3G being subsidised. From lurking around their twitter today it seems people thought the original owners could upgrade mid way through their contract as a result of some sort of magical iPhone based privilege. They didn't do their research and took it for granted they could have the latest Apple shinyness for cheap too.

Basically people have misunderstood their contracts, the cost of their phone and their entitlements.

For what it's worth, I totally appreciated the sarcasm of the thread title

 

[smiddlehurst]

I am VERY transparent arkitect, yes, no bad thing either my friend, you wont see me hiding behind smoke and mirrors.

I'm really only interested in putting forward my views of the O2/Apple upgrade model, I am slightly embarrassed that some less-than-articulate posters choose to try and provoke with talk of "whining" and the like. I'll let these Sun "Dear Deirdre" readers continue to focus on that side of things, if you could hear my tone of voice you would know I am not whining, I am highlighting the truth behind the model as it exists today. So thanks for your comments, but I think you might be missing Jeremy Kyle repeats on Sky, so see you next time!!

I have every right to want to upgrade once a year, EVERY RIGHT indeed, its something we always had, for the last decade until the iPhone came along and brought with it 18 and 24 month contracts, until then it was almost all 12 months. As a result the high users, the web savvy, the gadget-dependent of us ARE BEING BENT OVER A BARREL AND SHAFTED FOR FEES THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY.

They're the facts of it.

Okay, that's complete and utter nonsense plain and simple. The iPhone did not introduce the 18 month contract, it had been in place for quite some time before that on high end phones. You have no 'right' to upgrade if you sign up for a contract - again, take some responsibility for your actions. You have a 'wish' to upgrade which can be done if you decide that it's important enough to you to go PAYG.

If you really want to know why the mobile companies are going the 18 and 24 (and in Orange's case 36!) month contracts just look in the mirror. The 12 month model gave rise to people moving mobile networks every time they came to renew if the existing network didn't give them massive discounts and incentives to stay on as people looked for the best possible deal. Network loyalty vanished and as a result networks are now looking to lock you in for as long as possible in order to make a profit and be able to afford all these wonderful technical advancements we love using. 18 month contracts allow the networks to offer subsidised prices on phones that are getting ever more expensive, if they stuck with 12 month contracts you'd just pay the extra cost up front.

I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be rude or anything here but what you're saying makes no sense whatsoever. There are no hidden stratergies to O2's model, it's all right out in the open and if you sign on the dotted line it's YOUR responsibility to make sure you're happy with those terms. If not, then DON'T SIGN!!! It's not complicated, it really is.

 

[frontman]

Actually I could - that was me being nice...

haha! Would love to catch you on a bad day!!

I'm open to all thats been said, I heard it 10,000,000 times when I managed peoples accounts at VF.

But like NStocks says, I also run multiple accounts, hundreds each month to O2, but still my BEST offer from them was

"Pay for 42 months, get 24!"

In an ideal world, I would pay, what £200-300 for the phone after 11 months of my contract and then roll on 12 more months from there, paying a nice little £70 a month or whatever is.

I am not trying to just TAKE, I am happy to play ball, but come on... the way the contracts are structured around the upgrade paths and release dates, doesnt seem fair, especially to the higher users amongnst us!

AND I repeat, I cant even change to the lowest tariff when I want to, thats just plain wrong!

 

[frontman]

Smiddlehurst - Consumers SHOULD have the choice to just move about, whenever they want!

Thats called "comepetiton"! Its healthy, its what business is all about and it ultimately leads to a more rewarding and affordable market for us all. Why WOULDNT you move if you could save money!?

You can do that with utilities, automotive, even your mortgage can be ported to a more competetive deal.

But not your mobile phone. Oh no, that you have to be attached to for, apparently, up to 3 years! Thats crazy.

 

[uberamd]

The contracts in the US are for 2 years... so be happy you only had an 18 month contract and stop whining!