I need to add more Hard Drives

[iBookRevA]

I need to add more Hard Drives into My Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio) OS X 10.4.11, 1.5GB Currently I have 3 120GB Hard Drives but want to add more and make a server out of it. I have tried a multitude of
"Dual Channel Ultra IDE PATA ATA/133 PCI Controller Cards" that don't show up in the "system profiler" in the PCI cards or ATA checks. The three drives I have in it do show up (I took out the ZIP drive and put a hard drive in it's place) Is there a PCI Card that will work with this Mac?
Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Project Alice]

Yes. I have one of these in my sawtooth. Works great. It will not work with OS 9 however. You can also look at this thread.

 

[eyoungren]

I need to add more Hard Drives into My Power Mac G4 (Digital Audio) OS X 10.4.11, 1.5GB Currently I have 3 120GB Hard Drives but want to add more and make a server out of it. I have tried a multitude of
"Dual Channel Ultra IDE PATA ATA/133 PCI Controller Cards" that don't show up in the "system profiler" in the PCI cards or ATA checks. The three drives I have in it do show up (I took out the ZIP drive and put a hard drive in it's place) Is there a PCI Card that will work with this Mac?
Thanks in advance for the help.

Why not get a PCI SATA card?

Plenty on eBay. Some of them have four ports. SATA drives are cheap and because of the card being PCI the large drive limit is ignored. You can format up to 2TB as APM, or GUID for larger drives.

I have a 2TB RAID drive enclosure attached to my PowerMac G3. The G3 is running 10.4.11 Server and is functioning in that role (server) on my home network. It's got a Sonnet PCI SATA card connected to an eSATA adapter. The RAID enclosure is connected to that via eSATA cables.

 

[bunnspecial]

Plenty on eBay. Some of them have four ports. SATA drives are cheap and because of the card being PCI the large drive limit is ignored. You can format up to 2TB as APM, or GUID for larger drives.

As a small side note, the 120gb limit vanishes on all the PCI cards I'm aware of/have used whether ATA or SATA. This is true even going all the way back to the PM 7200.

With that said, I agree that a firmware-compatible SATA card is the way to go. ATA drives haven't been made since 2012. I don't think capacities over 750gb exist, and from what I've seen anything larger than ~250gb or so starts to carry a real premium. I have a pile of 500gb drives in XServe RAID sleds, and in all honesty if I decided to sell them(not planning any time soon-or at all) I'd make a pile of money selling the drives and junking the RAID, especially vs. selling two RAIDs and spare drives intact.

By contrast, you can walk into Best Buy, Microcenter, or whatever other local store you have with even a marginal selection of HDDs and walk out with a brand new SATA drive significantly over 1TB for well under $100. If you don't need those kind of capacities, smaller drives(under 250gb or so) can be had either used or refurbed for peanuts or even free if you keep your eyes open.

 

[eyoungren]

As a small side note, the 120gb limit vanishes on all the PCI cards I'm aware of/have used whether ATA or SATA. This is true even going all the way back to the PM 7200.

With that said, I agree that a firmware-compatible SATA card is the way to go. ATA drives haven't been made since 2012. I don't think capacities over 750gb exist, and from what I've seen anything larger than ~250gb or so starts to carry a real premium. I have a pile of 500gb drives in XServe RAID sleds, and in all honesty if I decided to sell them(not planning any time soon-or at all) I'd make a pile of money selling the drives and junking the RAID, especially vs. selling two RAIDs and spare drives intact.

By contrast, you can walk into Best Buy, Microcenter, or whatever other local store you have with even a marginal selection of HDDs and walk out with a brand new SATA drive significantly over 1TB for well under $100. If you don't need those kind of capacities, smaller drives(under 250gb or so) can be had either used or refurbed for peanuts or even free if you keep your eyes open.

I've been fortunate so far that all the drives I've bought through eBay have been good drives. The RAID enclosure I mentioned got two 1TB WD Reds that were only a month old when I put it together. The 3TB WD Red I got and the 2TB WD RE drive I got within the past month have been perfect as well. And the prices have been well under $100 for them.

I know I've probably been lucky, but I agree with your statement on the ease of finding a SATA drive in larger capacities than PATA.

 

[weckart]

The problem is finding a Mac compatible SATA PCI card is not exactly easy. The few that have come up end up selling for more than the going rate for a DA. Even the Mac Acard ATA expansion cards attract a lot of bidders.

In my personal experience, a flashed PC SATA card will not work in a DA or a QS. That goes for both the OSX-only Wiebetech firmware and the OS7.6-9/OSX compatible SeriTek firmware. That seems to confirmed by others who have tried. The PowerMac will simply not start up. It might have something to do with how power is channeled through the PCI ports. The one thing the DAs and QSes have in come and distinct from the other G4 PowerMacs is having four PCI slots and only three RAM slots. That reverted in the MDD to the usual 3 PCI and four RAM slots.

 

[eyoungren]

The problem is finding a Mac compatible SATA PCI card is not exactly easy. The few that have come up end up selling for more than the going rate for a DA. Even the Mac Acard ATA expansion cards attract a lot of bidders.

In my personal experience, a flashed PC SATA card will not work in a DA or a QS. That goes for both the OSX-only Wiebetech firmware and the OS7.6-9/OSX compatible SeriTek firmware. That seems to confirmed by others who have tried. The PowerMac will simply not start up. It might have something to do with how power is channeled through the PCI ports. The one thing the DAs and QSes have in come and distinct from the other G4 PowerMacs is having four PCI slots and only three RAM slots. That reverted in the MDD to the usual 3 PCI and four RAM slots.

My first PCI SATA card was a $10 eBay purchase that was flashed to the Sillicon Image 3112 firmware. Worked just fine in my then Quicksilver: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/guide-to-flashing-pc-sil3112-sata-cards-for-mac.1690231/

 

[weckart]

My first PCI SATA card was a $10 eBay purchase that was flashed to the Sillicon Image 3112 firmware. Worked just fine in my then Quicksilver: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/guide-to-flashing-pc-sil3112-sata-cards-for-mac.1690231/

As you may remember, nobody else could ever repeat this. A quick Google seems to confirm this, too.

I have three QSes (2001 and 2002) and a DA right in front of me. I have tried several cards in them. They don’t want to play.

 

[XaPHER]

A bootable SATA card is definitely a better option if you don't already have extra PATA drives to attach to an ATA-133 card.

If I can just add a few (maybe obvious) things to pay attention to in case you go for SATA:

-If you have more than 2 SATA drives (3,4,..) in my experience the inside of the case may become cable spaghetti. Especially in the case of pre-MDD machines, SATA cables with a 90° connector and mixed length were of great help for me. If you can at all go with 2 large drives instead of smaller ones, considering hard drive prices are going down, it'd be a good deal.

-Don't forget to get enough molex->SATA power adapters. I'm often short on these and I must order on the www.

I'm not aware of what ATA-133 card is safely mac-flashable, but a cheap-priced sonnet tempo ata-133 should do. I have 3 of them. Prefer connecting your boot drive to the onboard ATA because booting from the card slightly increases startup delay(from experience, again).

That reverted in the MDD to the usual 3 PCI and four RAM slots.

I doubted myself here and looked at my MDD.. 4DIMM + 4PCI slots, definitely

 

[weckart]

I doubted myself here and looked at my MDD.. 4DIMM + 4PCI slots, definitely

I double checked mine and you’re right. I stand corrected. I agree with your advice about getting one large SATA drive to replace several smaller ones. Alas, Sonnet Tempo cards are rarely to be had here in the UK.

 

[amedias]

I'd always suggest a big IDE or SATA drive over a number of smaller ones, just makes more sense from a power and administration POV but I've tried various Sil based SATA cards with limited success.

- PC version 3114 based cards don't work out of the box
- 3114 based cards flashed with 3112 fimware enables 2 of the SATA ports only but is NOT bootable, tested in G3, Sawtooth G4, and doesn;t work at all in DA or QS, not yet tested on MDD.
- 3112 based cards seem to be impossible to locate in the UK so never actually managed to get my hands on one. I found a seller in Germany listing a 3112 based 2 port card so bought one, but what arrived as a 4 port 3114 based card :-(

Those 3114 based cards listed on US eBay are claimed compatible with Sawtooth and G3 but not QS or DA, and according to the seller are flashed PC versions but all four ports work. I've not bought one as the cost is just a bit too high including shipping to the UK, and nobody seems willing to send me a dump form a working 3114 based card. I'd dearly love a dump to test on my own 3114 based cards so if anyone has one and is willing please speak up, I'll buy you a beer for the trouble!

The Sonnet option is always guaranteed to work but there just aren't many kicking around second hand, especially in the UK, and when they do pop up they go for silly money, normally more than the host machine!