I have new model of iBook 500 MHz and I am using it for a mobile music recording (ProTools). Now I have a possibility to buy a second hand Ti PowerBook G4 500 MHz and to sell the iBook (some extra investment is needed). But I wonder will there be really a reasonable boost in CPU Power and efficiency in the case of PowerBook, or would iBook be perfectly enough for a mobile recording and to buy a PowerBook would be more or less useless investment (and I should rather spend money for some other purpose)? What do you think ?
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iBook 500 MHz vs. Tibook G4 500 MHz
- Thread starter ISedlacek
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Save your money, for a long time. Then, buy a new PowerBook G4 that has the 1MB L3 Cache, and the 32MB Graphics, so OS 10.2 will really take advantage of its capabilites.
The 500MHz only has an 8MB Card, and that will run...ehh, not so good
The 500MHz only has an 8MB Card, and that will run...ehh, not so good
Why?
1700 is alot for a 2 generation old powerbook. I'd expect to pay that or less for a last gen 550. I'd stick with what you have and wait till you can afford a newer 667 (rev 3) its so much better over its predecessors. I try not to buy used items in the computer industry as its gets outdated that much faster. If the PB was for sell for 1K - 1200 I'd say go for it.. otherwise.. stay away from it.
1700 is alot for a 2 generation old powerbook. I'd expect to pay that or less for a last gen 550. I'd stick with what you have and wait till you can afford a newer 667 (rev 3) its so much better over its predecessors. I try not to buy used items in the computer industry as its gets outdated that much faster. If the PB was for sell for 1K - 1200 I'd say go for it.. otherwise.. stay away from it.
ISed...
Its not so much the Graphics Card, its what it DOES. I am saying that if you had a 500MHz Ti with a 8MB Rage, the new OS 10.2 would not run very good. OS 10.2 offloads all that transparent crap (which takes lots of the processor usage) to the graphics card.
Now, lets say they made a 500MHz Ti with a 32MB Card, 10.2 would run WAY better. MHz isn't the main deal here...
Its not so much the Graphics Card, its what it DOES. I am saying that if you had a 500MHz Ti with a 8MB Rage, the new OS 10.2 would not run very good. OS 10.2 offloads all that transparent crap (which takes lots of the processor usage) to the graphics card.
Now, lets say they made a 500MHz Ti with a 32MB Card, 10.2 would run WAY better. MHz isn't the main deal here...
The other thing you have to remember is that powerbooks are losing value very fast right now due to the recent release of the 667/800 pb's. Lots of people are trying to dump off older PBs to get their hands on the newer ones. As such, you are probably being asked a slightly higher price than it is worth, and you are certain to lose value rapidly.
In addition, your ibook isn't too far off from the current top of the line, and if they no longer make the 12" screen size, your computer may, (i stress may) end up holding its value!
My suggestion is to hold onto the ibook for now, see what else comes into your cross hairs, and then if you see a can't miss deal, squeeze the trigger. Otherwise, save up for the 800 (or whatever is best at the time).
In addition, your ibook isn't too far off from the current top of the line, and if they no longer make the 12" screen size, your computer may, (i stress may) end up holding its value!
My suggestion is to hold onto the ibook for now, see what else comes into your cross hairs, and then if you see a can't miss deal, squeeze the trigger. Otherwise, save up for the 800 (or whatever is best at the time).
tough decision...
i use my Ti550 for pro recording on location with Logic Audio and a bunch of other apps. i would suggest keeping your iBook even if it's not handling ProTools as good as you want. That is until you can score a 500 for a better price than 1700. I would think you could find one a bit less if you looked around. The reason I suggest the 500 is because the RevA 400 and 500 are actually MUCH better for pro audio than the RevBs(550,667). i believe this is due mainly to the larger cache and the pipe of the earlier chip. it had a much fatter bandwidth. here's a good test showing a PB400 whooping the arse of a 667:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PowerBookG4_fall2001/powerbook_g4_667_quake3.html#logic
Interesting stuff and I've got a few more links to tests if you'd like to see them. now, this surely isn't to say that the new PBs wouldn't do just as good or better. they are just pricy, so i say, if you don't think you'll be able to get your hands on a RevC try to find a RevA. it should give you similar performance to one of the shiny new ones, for audio atleast. just avoid a RevB. i'm using one now and it just isn't quite cutting it.
i use my Ti550 for pro recording on location with Logic Audio and a bunch of other apps. i would suggest keeping your iBook even if it's not handling ProTools as good as you want. That is until you can score a 500 for a better price than 1700. I would think you could find one a bit less if you looked around. The reason I suggest the 500 is because the RevA 400 and 500 are actually MUCH better for pro audio than the RevBs(550,667). i believe this is due mainly to the larger cache and the pipe of the earlier chip. it had a much fatter bandwidth. here's a good test showing a PB400 whooping the arse of a 667:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/PowerBookG4_fall2001/powerbook_g4_667_quake3.html#logic
Interesting stuff and I've got a few more links to tests if you'd like to see them. now, this surely isn't to say that the new PBs wouldn't do just as good or better. they are just pricy, so i say, if you don't think you'll be able to get your hands on a RevC try to find a RevA. it should give you similar performance to one of the shiny new ones, for audio atleast. just avoid a RevB. i'm using one now and it just isn't quite cutting it.
As an iBook 600 owner, let me say wait. I love my iBook, but I wish that I would have waited. Aztec is right. It is going to make a MASSIVE difference to have the graphics card drawing all of the eyecandy in X. Also, depending on what drive you have in your 500, I don't think it will pull 1200 US. You can buy a brand new 500 with CD for 1199 and one with DVD for 1200. So think it through. Besides, I think in some ways the iBook has a better screen (brightness clairty) than the older PowerBooks. The new PowerBooks are unbelieveable though.
this is why I've decided to hold on to my Rev. A...it's simply not worth replacing....especially if it does everything I need it to...
go for the newer model....don't "upgrade" and spend money on something that's already dated...
go for the newer model....don't "upgrade" and spend money on something that's already dated...
ISedlacek, if you want to make an investment you should go for the 800MHz TiBook, it will hold it's value alot better and you'll be really glad that you spent the extra money. but if you can get a TiBook 500 for cheap enough, and you'll be happy with it for a while, then you might as well go for it! but if you're wanting to make a real investment then you have to think about the future.
what ever you do, choose wisely.
what ever you do, choose wisely.
I'm with eyelikeart here........ as nice as the 800Mhz TiBook is, I just don't think it would give the huge boost in performance I would like....
My purchasing window is feb 03, should see some really high performing Powerbooks by then, 1Ghz almost definitely, 64Mb Graphics card etc etc.... that will be the huge boost I'm wanting......
And like eyelikeart said, go for the newest model you can, as much as I love my Rev A, by the time I'm ready to upgrade, it'll be getting alittle long in the tooth, so I say, save your cash..... wait till they release 1Ghz TiBooks.... then blow your dough!!!
my opinion
I say "Get rid of the iBook!"
It was a bad idea to buy an ibook.
unless your only running os9!
If you paln to use osx.
Then there is No doubt that you should trade up to the Ti.
Get the 500 for a good and cheap price.
I am certain that you will be much happier with it.
If its just a few hundred more then its a great deal.
For SO many reasons.
DO IT!
I say "Get rid of the iBook!"
It was a bad idea to buy an ibook.
unless your only running os9!
If you paln to use osx.
Then there is No doubt that you should trade up to the Ti.
Get the 500 for a good and cheap price.
I am certain that you will be much happier with it.
If its just a few hundred more then its a great deal.
For SO many reasons.
DO IT!
Check out the Digidesign User Conference
There's quite a few people there with both iBooks and various versions of the TiBook that use them with an Mbox and Protools LE. If you ask on the messageboard I'm sure people will tell you how they're systems perform, then you can make a more informed decision based on the performance.
Personally speaking I would only go for a model that gives a significantly higher plug-in count than the 500Mhz iBook, clock speed is irrelevent when it comes to the powerbooks, the 500Mhz Rev A TiBook totally wipes the floor with the 667Mhz Rev B TiBook for audio, screw the OS X screen redraws, we'll be waiting a while for Protools in OS X anyway. Go for a model that works for you and gives you the best performance in protools for what you can afford to spend. Seeing as the Rev C TiBooks have a faster system bus and the new DDR Cache, it might work out better for you to save up and buy new.
There's quite a few people there with both iBooks and various versions of the TiBook that use them with an Mbox and Protools LE. If you ask on the messageboard I'm sure people will tell you how they're systems perform, then you can make a more informed decision based on the performance.
Personally speaking I would only go for a model that gives a significantly higher plug-in count than the 500Mhz iBook, clock speed is irrelevent when it comes to the powerbooks, the 500Mhz Rev A TiBook totally wipes the floor with the 667Mhz Rev B TiBook for audio, screw the OS X screen redraws, we'll be waiting a while for Protools in OS X anyway. Go for a model that works for you and gives you the best performance in protools for what you can afford to spend. Seeing as the Rev C TiBooks have a faster system bus and the new DDR Cache, it might work out better for you to save up and buy new.
Seems that there is every opinion under the sun here, so take your pick
To answer your question directly, you will notice a vast speed difference between the 500MHz iBook and it's 66MHz system bus and the 500MHz TiBook and its 100MHz system bus. Also, I have disovered more and more that when Altivec comes into play, you see further speed advantages. I LOVE the larger screen on my TiBook AND I really like the fact that I can use a second monitor on it for more screen space.
I have to say, however, that I have been wishing I could upgrade to the new TiBook like people here recommend. However, there is no way that I am going to be able to spend $3200+ on a new laptop. I really had to scrape to get the $2100 for my 400MHz TiBook a year ago.
Also, if you go out and spend the money for the newest technology, you WILL end up losing a LOT of cash very quickly. Just be aware of that, regardless of what you decide.
If you CAN make the iBook to TiBook transition for $500, I say go for it. However, if you can get something with better graphics, it'll really help considering the specs on the upcoming OS X.2 release.
To answer your question directly, you will notice a vast speed difference between the 500MHz iBook and it's 66MHz system bus and the 500MHz TiBook and its 100MHz system bus. Also, I have disovered more and more that when Altivec comes into play, you see further speed advantages. I LOVE the larger screen on my TiBook AND I really like the fact that I can use a second monitor on it for more screen space.
I have to say, however, that I have been wishing I could upgrade to the new TiBook like people here recommend. However, there is no way that I am going to be able to spend $3200+ on a new laptop. I really had to scrape to get the $2100 for my 400MHz TiBook a year ago.
Also, if you go out and spend the money for the newest technology, you WILL end up losing a LOT of cash very quickly. Just be aware of that, regardless of what you decide.
If you CAN make the iBook to TiBook transition for $500, I say go for it. However, if you can get something with better graphics, it'll really help considering the specs on the upcoming OS X.2 release.
I assume that 10.2 will run as smooth or smoother as 10.1 on machines with graphics cards not supported by Quartz Extreme?
Isn't Quartz Extreme just an "add-on" for machines with the newer graphics cards - that does not interfere with the already existing software Quartz rendering?
--
Christian
iBook/Graphics card update?
are the iBooks set up so that graphics card updates would be possible for those who might want to take advantage of the newer features of 10.2+? Surely, it would have to be at an apple service center, in much the way hard drive upgrades are, unless you're very brave.
--mk
are the iBooks set up so that graphics card updates would be possible for those who might want to take advantage of the newer features of 10.2+? Surely, it would have to be at an apple service center, in much the way hard drive upgrades are, unless you're very brave.
--mk
Heres what you do
Overclock your iBook. www.xlr8yourmac.com has a full instruction set of how to up the bus from 66-100 and the processor from 500-600. This will then be faster, smaller, and better than that TiBook. You can buy a cheap external CRT monitor and hook it up to your mini-vga port. The 8mb AGP card might not let you get 60fps in quake, but it'll run a monitor in millions at 1024x768. When 10.2 comes out, wait a little while and then buy a mac with a 32+MB video card. If you can't OC your iBook, or don't want to, find someone you trust who knows how to solder and pay them $20 to move a couple resistors. You can always practice on an old circuit board from something you don't mind messing up. It's a day of frustration, but you'll extend the iBooks lifetime by a lot. $500 for the TiBook isn't worth it. Keep that $500 and put it towards a nice newER (maybe still used, but AT LEAST 667 and G4) computer to buy later.
Overclock your iBook. www.xlr8yourmac.com has a full instruction set of how to up the bus from 66-100 and the processor from 500-600. This will then be faster, smaller, and better than that TiBook. You can buy a cheap external CRT monitor and hook it up to your mini-vga port. The 8mb AGP card might not let you get 60fps in quake, but it'll run a monitor in millions at 1024x768. When 10.2 comes out, wait a little while and then buy a mac with a 32+MB video card. If you can't OC your iBook, or don't want to, find someone you trust who knows how to solder and pay them $20 to move a couple resistors. You can always practice on an old circuit board from something you don't mind messing up. It's a day of frustration, but you'll extend the iBooks lifetime by a lot. $500 for the TiBook isn't worth it. Keep that $500 and put it towards a nice newER (maybe still used, but AT LEAST 667 and G4) computer to buy later.
The fact is that we don't know for sure right now. The explanation on Apple's 10.2 page doesn't tell you how it performs or if it degrades on unsupported hardware.
It might be an add on...but I have the impression that it's actually the new version of Quartz that the entire system is based on.