iBook vs PowerBook

[poiihy]

iBooks are cheaper than PowerBooks (edit: maybe not). PowerBooks are more powerful than iBooks. So what can a PowerBook do that an iBook cannot do? How well does the average iBook run? Is it usable for day-to-day tasks? Can it run TenFourFox or LeopardWebkit well? Can it run an official browser that is still good today (like Safari 5)? Can it run games well? How much better is an iBook G4 over an iBook G3? I suppose it is more worth it to get an iBook G4 because they are about the same price but can run Leopard. How much more powerful is a PowerBook vs an iBook? The Aluminum PowerBooks seem to be more expensive than the Titanium PowerBooks, probably because they look like MacBok Pro's. Is it worth it to get a PowerBook over an iBook? How well does a Titanium PowerBook run? Can it run TenFourFox and LeopardWebkit well? Can it run games well? Can it run Minecraft 1.5.1? Can it play YouTube Videos through some app like MacTubes?

Bahh nevermind all these questions, just give me a whole summary.


If you own a PowerBook and/or iBook, I would like you to test Mars Explorer 2.22 on it and tell me how it runs. Compare iBooks vs PowerBooks.

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What about Clamshell iBooks? They are nice looking, but most of them are very expensive ($100-$200). I would think they are weak and can't handle TFF well. And of course they cannot run Leopard.

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Safari 4 is the latest for Tiger. How well does that work with today's internet, besides the security breaches? Safari 5 runs well.
I think it would be better if it ran Leopard because most awesome software for PPC only works on Leopard. I like the look of Tiger though.

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Also, I have a dead iBook that died from Radeongate. It is a 700MHz G3 model, and I think it is 14". Would it be a good idea to get the same, or similar, model of iBook so I can exchange parts? Probably better to get similar, not same, as a 700MHz G3 is weak.

 

[poiihy]

is there any possibility of Flash on PowerPC? Can I use at least Adobe Flash 9?

 

[Intell]

Powerbooks can mirror a display without third party hacks. They have much more powerful GPUs. Later iBooks run fairly well, about the same as a G4 iMac or G4 Mac Mini. They are usable for daily tasks, up to a point as they are PowerPC Macs. It can run TenFourFox and LeopardWebkit, only slightly less quickly than a Powerbook. All stock PowerPC browsers should not be used, but they can be run on an iBook. Because of their weaker GPUs, iBooks are not as good as gaming as Powerbooks. G4 iBooks are much better than their G3 counterparts. Powerbooks have better internals than a contemplate iBook, as one is the consumer model and the other the professional model. Al Powerbooks can go for more because they are newer and faster, but a Ti book in good condition can go for just as much if not more. Powerbooks are more powerful, because of that they are slightly more worth getting. Ti books are slower than the fastest iBooks as they are the first generation Powerbook G4s. They can run TenFourFox and LeopardWebkit about as well as a single core stock Quicksilver can, but the older ones can be as slow as a stock Sawtooth. Ti books are wonderful for OS 9 games, but the last model's GPU can struggle with newer OS X games. A Ti book will run Minecraft at very low framerates and be near unusable. Later Ti books can playback YouTube videos, but not overly well. Why compare when you can just look at GeenBench's large database of different model Macs? Clamshell iBooks are roughly like tray loading G3 iMacs, they're nice to have, but they sadly can't do much. They are expensive because of what they are. They're a collector's item. They can run TenFourFox and do it well, as long as you are patient. Safari 4 can do the modern internet, but it should not be used. It is very outdated and highly insecure. You can run up to version 10.1 on OS X, but it should not be used. It is highly insecure.

 

[poiihy]

Why compare when you can just look at GeenBench's large database of different model Macs?

Oh I hadn't thought about Geekbench at all; I will look into it. Thanks for all that info

 

[poiihy]

How well does Leopard run on an 867MHz machine? Is it so slow that you'd want to kill yourself? It would probably be best to turn off the fancy graphics. Tiger runs well I assume.

Ideally I would dual-boot Tiger and Leopard on any modern powerpc mac I would have.

 

[bunnspecial]

How well does Leopard run on an 867MHz machine? Is it so slow that you'd want to kill yourself? It would probably be best to turn off the fancy graphics. Tiger runs well I assume.

Ideally I would dual-boot Tiger and Leopard on any modern powerpc mac I would have.

Leopard is definitely useable and not too bad on my 867mhz Ti. Maxing the RAM(to 1gb) made a big difference, as did putting in a newer(good condition) 5400 rpm drive. I may thrown an mSATA SSD or 7200rpm HDD in mine, and I expect that will pep it up a bit more.

One thing worth mentioning is that most Tis have 1mb of L3 cache, while no Al book-save for the first generation 17"-has an L3 cache. In the real world this actually makes a pretty big difference in useability. Of course, the other side of this is that the 15 and 17" Al books can hold 2gb of RAM(provided that you don't have one of the ones with a bad RAM slot) and this also makes a big difference in Leopard. When you're looking at Geekbench, compare the 867mhz Ti to the 12" 867mhz and 1ghz Al.

 

[eyoungren]

iBooks are cheaper than PowerBooks (edit: maybe not).

Sometimes. Depends.

PowerBooks are more powerful than iBooks.

Again. That depends. My son has 1Ghz Titanium DVI with 1GB ram running Leopard. It flies. My daughter has a 1.42Ghz iBook G4 with 2GB ram running Leopard. Which Mac do you think is more powerful?

So what can a PowerBook do that an iBook cannot do?

An iBook G4 can do everything a PowerBook G4 can. Maybe not as quickly, but it can. I am assuming we are not including iBook G3s in this discussion.

How well does the average iBook run?

My daughter has a 14.1" iBook G4 as I mentioned. It runs very well.

Is it usable for day-to-day tasks?

Yes.

Can it run TenFourFox or LeopardWebkit well?

Yes. Any G3, G4 and G5 can run T4Fx well. If you have problems with T4Fx it's probably because you haven't bothered to optimize about:config. Let's not talk about Leopard Webkit as I hate Webkit.

Can it run an official browser that is still good today (like Safari 5)?

No idea. I don't use Safari. I hate it.

Can it run games well?

My son plays lots of games on his PowerBook all the time. Same with my daughter.

How much better is an iBook G4 over an iBook G3?

By several orders of magnitude. Tiger is the max a G3 can run and a G4 gives you Altivec.

I suppose it is more worth it to get an iBook G4 because they are about the same price but can run Leopard. How much more powerful is a PowerBook vs an iBook?

That's up to you, but both the iBook and the PowerBook use the G4 processor. At a certain point it's all the same. There are other issues, such as no PRAM battery for iBooks, smaller cache and slower bus. But the processor is the same.

The Aluminum PowerBooks seem to be more expensive than the Titanium PowerBooks, probably because they look like MacBok Pro's.

The MBPs look like the AlBooks, not the other way around. The AlBooks were the generation that replaced the TiBooks. Hence, more powerful, more expensive.

Is it worth it to get a PowerBook over an iBook?

I think so, but I don't care for iBooks so take that with a grain of salt.

How well does a Titanium PowerBook run?

My son's TiBook is a rocket and easily as powerful as my 1Ghz 17" AlBook.

Can it run TenFourFox and LeopardWebkit well?
Can it run games well?

Already answered. See above.

Can it run Minecraft 1.5.1?

No idea. But there's a Minecraft server thread in here. Might ask there.

Can it play YouTube Videos through some app like MacTubes?

Yes.

What about Clamshell iBooks? They are nice looking, but most of them are very expensive ($100-$200). I would think they are weak and can't handle TFF well. And of course they cannot run Leopard.

I don't know, but T4Fx runs on G3 processors. It should be fine.

Safari 4 is the latest for Tiger. How well does that work with today's internet, besides the security breaches?

No clue. I don't use Safari. Or Tiger.

Safari 5 runs well.

.
OK. I will take your word for it. I don't use Safari.

I think it would be better if it ran Leopard because most awesome software for PPC only works on Leopard. I like the look of Tiger though.

I hate Tiger. Most unstable POS in a network environment that I've ever had the misfortune of using.

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is there any possibility of Flash on PowerPC? Can I use at least Adobe Flash 9?

Yes. There are a few hacks out there that are actually the latest version of Flash for PowerPC but fool websites into thinking you are using the latest version of Flash itself.

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How well does Leopard run on an 867MHz machine? Is it so slow that you'd want to kill yourself? It would probably be best to turn off the fancy graphics. Tiger runs well I assume.

Ideally I would dual-boot Tiger and Leopard on any modern powerpc mac I would have.

I run Leopard on a G4/400 AGP with 256mb ram at work. It's our print server. It used to be used to build ads when we had 1.75GB of ram in it. It has Adobe CS4, Acrobat 9 Pro, Suitcase Fusion 2 and QuarkXPress 6 and 8 installed. Runs them fine.

When my old TiBook/400 was running I ram Leopard on that with 1GB ram and with the same apps I mentioned above. Bit slower, but both Macs got the job done.

Just turn off all the eye candy. Leopard has an undeserved reputation for slowness because people never bother to do this.

 

[gavinstubbs09]

One advantage for me to use a PowerBook vs. a iBook. They have a line-in port and I use that quite often. And of course jumping into the 15/17" you get the backlit keyboard which is awesome!

 

[bunnspecial]

One advantage for me to use a PowerBook vs. a iBook. They have a line-in port and I use that quite often. And of course jumping into the 15/17" you get the backlit keyboard which is awesome!

I'm not sure where the cut-off is, but I think that only some 15" Als have backlit keyboards(and of course the no Ti has it).

With regard to the line in port-I've always found it interesting that the original Macbook and Aluminum Unibody Macbook have separate line in/line out ports, while the 13" Pro has a combined in/out. Of course, the 13" Pro gains a whole lot over the Aluminum MB that it was heavily based on-including Firewire and an SD card slot-although there was still plenty of room to put separate line in/out.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Well, the latest Aluminum PowerBooks have advantages over the latest iBooks, in terms of specifications, etc. "Better" can have many meanings. Spec-wise, the PowerBook G4 is better, but in terms of wellness, design, comfort, portability, etc., that can all be held-open for debate.

iBooks are more "fun", and the 12" models of iBook are common, whereas it's not as common to find a 12" PowerBook (let alone one for a decent price). Otherwise, most of us are stuck with a big, 15" widescreen display, or even a 17" one! iBooks are generally more robust and friendly machines, and were/still are more available to the masses (given that the PowerBook is less common, as it was/still is a more-expensive, professional product).

On the side of the Aluminum PowerBook, it has a nice and slim aluminum body, a MUCH better screen, a good amount of ports (including USB on BOTH sides ), an illuminated keyboard (on 15" & 17" 2003+ models), and a sleeker feel.

I won't go into minute details between the two (esp. considering that there are older generations of these machines), but they are pretty different from each other. Even though the best PowerBook is way better than the best iBook, in terms of specs/features, there is NO way one can simply decide between to two! I have seven iBooks and three PowerBooks, and, out of the ones that currently work, I like them all.

 

[bunnspecial]

iBooks are more "fun", and the 12" models of iBook are common, whereas it's not as common to find a 12" PowerBook (let alone one for a decent price). Otherwise, most of us are stuck with a big, 15" widescreen display, or even a 17" one! iBooks are generally more robust and friendly machines, and were/still are more available to the masses (given that the PowerBook is less common, as it was/still is a more-expensive, professional product).

Unfortunately, this isn't true of the 12" PBs. All the ports are on the left, and only the optical drive is on the right.

In fact, the ports are pretty much the same on the 12' iBook and 12" PB. The PB does use mini-DVI in all but the earliest models(an easier to find dongle these days) whereas all iBooks use mini-VGA. Also, the PB has audio in and out, where the iBook only has audio out.

I do like the right hand ports on the bigger models. In fact, IMO one of the biggest downsides to the "classic" Unibody MBP design was moving all the ports to the left. The Retina models move one USB port(along with HDMI and the SD card slot) back over to the right side.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Unfortunately, this isn't true of the 12" PBs. All the ports are on the left, and only the optical drive is on the right.

In fact, the ports are pretty much the same on the 12' iBook and 12" PB. The PB does use mini-DVI in all but the earliest models(an easier to find dongle these days) whereas all iBooks use mini-VGA. Also, the PB has audio in and out, where the iBook only has audio out.

I do like the right hand ports on the bigger models. In fact, IMO one of the biggest downsides to the "classic" Unibody MBP design was moving all the ports to the left. The Retina models move one USB port(along with HDMI and the SD card slot) back over to the right side.

Oh, right---I completely forgot about the 12" PB's ports. Speaking of ports, Apple is rumored to introduce USB type C ports on their Macs. If they do that, they better load them on, as they are much smaller than current USB type A ports. Somehow, though, I am sure Apple would continue only having two USB ports on their PROFESSIONAL laptops. It's just their horrible mentality these days...

 

[bunnspecial]

Oh, right---I completely forgot about the 12" PB's ports. Speaking of ports, Apple is rumored to introduce USB type C ports on their Macs. If they do that, they better load them on, as they are much smaller than current USB type A ports. Somehow, though, I am sure Apple would continue only having two USB ports on their PROFESSIONAL laptops. It's just their horrible mentality these days...

I don't know what Apple's hang up is on USB ports. Even most crappy PC laptops have 3 or more. The 17" MBPs all had 3 USB ports, but every other Apple laptop has had a maximum of two. The first couple of generations of Macbook Air(which were $1800 when introduced in their base configuration) only had one USB port.

And, of course, we all know that G4 era towers had 2 USB ports. They did wise up and put 3 on the iMac G4, then continued that same number on the iMac G4 and first several generations of G5 towers. The last generation(late '05) G5 tower did get 4 USB ports, the Mac Pro classic 5, and the current Mac Pro 6 ports. Intel-based Minis have bounced between 4 and 5 USB ports.

All of that aside, many current low-end PCs have 6 or 8 USB ports. Of course, Apple always says that you can use hubs, but for a company that has built their last severals on reducing the number of wires on your desktop, that's not exactly a great solution either. At least most Apple monitors include some sort of USB hub-provided that your computer has the correct connectivity to work with the monitor.

There's my rant for the day

 

[Cox Orange]

I don't know if it has been mentioned above, but

When considering 12" I find the last ibook Generation with 1,33Ghz can be the better option graphics wise (ATI 9550 vs. Geforce 5200Go in PowerBook). Though I have found out, that in video encoding (nothing to do with the graphics card) a difference of 0,11GHz made a difference of 30min. in time of completion of the task (the whole task took 12.h30min.).
Otherwise I find the last gen. PowerBooks with 15" display is the best of both worlds, not to big a display (of that is preferred) but all the power, plus an ATI 9700. Also I like that late PowerBooks have Firewire800 and a Card-Bus. The last gen. PB also has DDR2 RAM (though you might not realize it).

 

[bunnspecial]

Otherwise I find the last gen. PowerBooks with 15" display is the best of both worlds, not to big a display (of that is preferred) but all the power, plus an ATI 9700. Also I like that late PowerBooks have Firewire800 and a Card-Bus. The last gen. PB also has DDR2 RAM (though you might not realize it).

I agree with this. The last generation 15" Powerbooks are overall superb machines.

The screen is fantastic-it's worth mentioning that Apple actually reduced the resolution slightly when they moved to the Macbook Pro(1440x960 vs. 1440x900 for the MBP) and the standard 15" MBP kept that resolution up until it was discontinued in late 2012.

My DLSD Powerbook is still pleasantly useable and quite peppy. I just got a really nice mSATA-IDE enclosure off Ebay, and I'm going to be shopping for an mSATA SSD to drop in it soon. Mine currently has a 7200rpm drive, which sucks the battery dry and is noisy(plus unpleasant since it's right under the trackpad).

I do wish that Apple had put an updated memory controller in them that could at least handle 4gb of RAM. When the G5 was updated to DDR-2 and PCI-e around the same time, the memory controller was upgraded to handle a maximum of 16gb of RAM(8x2gb). It would have been nice to make the Powerbook also able to handle 2x2gb of RAM.

 

[happyfrappy]

I'd avoid 2003-2004 Alu 15" PowerBook G4s the lower memory slot failure was brushed under the rug and also Apple had quality control issues with the antennas--some left the factory with either wifi or bluetooth not mounted correctly and range suffered, several MacNN forum members only found out about this build flaw after Apple Care depot listed an "antenna repair" was done if they had their screen latch replaced/logicboard replacement.

I'm not sure where the cut-off is, but I think that only some 15" Als have backlit keyboards(and of course the no Ti has it).

My first gen Alu 15" PowerBook G4 1.25Ghz (Sept 2003 FW800) it was optional to get a backlit keyboard but price wise it was just cheaper to order the high-end 15" which included it just to get the 512mb single stick of RAM CTO option... getting the backlit keyboard was just a bonus. Superdrives in 2003-2004 PowerBook G4s were "Region Free" flash-able, 2005 they switched to LG drives which couldn't be reflashed as easily as you'd run the risk of a revision firmware mismatch and brick the drive instead. (my 2004 12" PB had one of the transition period LG drives, had to buy a region 2-only external drive for my UK DVD collection)

I would note you see fewer 1.25Ghz models with dead lower memory slots, the dowside of earlier Alu PB G4s is Apple kept using 4200 RPM HDD standard then held off using the sudden motion sensor until 2005. Hitachi Travelstar 4200 RPM drives were also ~15% faster and more reliable than Toshiba & Western Digital, my 12" PB Toshiba HDD had the shortest life in any "modern" Mac... the 15" still has the original HDD

 

[SkyBell]

As much as I enjoy my PowerBook G4, somehow it just doesn't quite measure up to the experience of owning my iBook G4 years ago; both with Tiger, of course.

Chalk it up to personal preference? Or maybe just nostalgia.

 

[weckart]

Though I have found out, that in video encoding (nothing to do with the graphics card) a difference of 0,11GHz made a difference of 30min. in time of completion of the task (the whole task took 12.h30min.)

You see, I just would not do this ever. 12hrs of pegging the cpu on a notebook is just asking for trouble. That is what cheap desktops are for. They can handle the grunt work without cooking the logic board.

For the odd occasion that I needed to crunch a video for my iPod back in the day, I used an Elgato Turbo264 on a small extension cable. It sped things up no end on my Mac Mini G4 or my iBook and kept heat build up to a minimum as most of the processing took place outside.

 

[ziggy29]

I think to some degree, it depends on if you want to access Classic, or even boot into OS 9 natively. If that is the case you want one that runs Tiger, probably, with 10.4.11 and 9.2.2 installed. If you want to boot OS 9 directly, you might look at a TiBook since it's a G4 that can actually boot directly into OS 9.

If you have no use for booting OS 9 or running Classic, then some of the newer AlBooks running Leopard might be my answer. (They can also run OS 9 apps in Classic mode with Tiger, of course).

That said, I still LOVE my Pismo, upgraded with the maximum 1 GB of RAM and a 550 MHz G4 card, running both Tiger (10.4.11) and OS 9.2.2. I love the ease of access to the internals, the expansion bays allowing you to hot swap with DVDs, Zip drives and even 2 batteries if needed. It was engineering genius. You'll have to pry this one from my cold, dead fingers!

 

[bunnspecial]

That said, I still LOVE my Pismo, upgraded with the maximum 1 GB of RAM and a 550 MHz G4 card, running both Tiger (10.4.11) and OS 9.2.2. I love the ease of access to the internals, the expansion bays allowing you to hot swap with DVDs, Zip drives and even 2 batteries if needed. It was engineering genius. You'll have to pry this one from my cold, dead fingers!

Maybe it's just something with mine, but I've had issues with hot swapping under OS X. Specifically, if I pop out the DVD drive, I invariably get a kernel panic(10.4.11). The system is otherwise rock stable under 10.4, and the kernel panic happens as soon as I pull the lever all the way out on the DVD drive.

I have zero issues swapping whatever I want around in any way with OS 9-it's just OS X.

Have you noticed this?

 

[ziggy29]

Maybe it's just something with mine, but I've had issues with hot swapping under OS X. Specifically, if I pop out the DVD drive, I invariably get a kernel panic(10.4.11). The system is otherwise rock stable under 10.4, and the kernel panic happens as soon as I pull the lever all the way out on the DVD drive.

I have zero issues swapping whatever I want around in any way with OS 9-it's just OS X.

Have you noticed this?

I haven't, and I'm working with my Pismo now (using TenFourFox) and tested this a bit. You are closing apps accessing the volume and dismounting the volume before swapping out? Does it happen when *no* DVD/CD is in the drive?

 

[bunnspecial]

I haven't, and I'm working with my Pismo now (using TenFourFox) and tested this a bit. You are closing apps accessing the volume and dismounting the volume before swapping out? Does it happen when *no* DVD/CD is in the drive?

Yes-it happens with nothing in the drive.

It's strange that mine does this, but then since I only have one battery and a DVD drive for my Pismo it really isn't an issue.

 

[Cox Orange]

You see, I just would not do this ever. 12hrs of pegging the cpu on a notebook is just asking for trouble. That is what cheap desktops are for. They can handle the grunt work without cooking the logic board.

For the odd occasion that I needed to crunch a video for my iPod back in the day, I used an Elgato Turbo264 on a small extension cable. It sped things up no end on my Mac Mini G4 or my iBook and kept heat build up to a minimum as most of the processing took place outside.

Of course, but I find the comparison interesting though and on the other hand, a similar clocked PowerMac G4 will use 90-120W, how long that would run the process is another question, of course. A G5 isn't better when you compare the time to completion it needs and the Watts. It all comes down to a similar result.
The part about stressing the notebook hardware is a strong point though, I agree.

 

[gooser]

i'm sure that this thread has been done numerous times on different mac forums around ten years ago. interesting that it's still relevant today. i was always interested in ibooks more because they shipped with appleworks which wasn't automatically bundled with powerbooks. now that it is 2015 that is no longer a concern.