ibooks and video apps

[quadrakid]

I am looking at buying my first mac either an ibook or a powerbook. I do a lot of video work and will continue to use my desktop PC for anything labour intensive. I do need to run Photoshop, Final Cut, Aftereffects and Shake however but not push them too much or use them simultaneously.

I'd love some advice from anyone who has run Final Cut or Shake on an ibook. Is it realistic?

I realise that running these apps on a portable is going to be somewhat sluggish but a dual G5 tower is not practical for my purposes.

I hope i can get away with an ibook as the powerbooks seem to be a bit overpriced for such an old product line.

Thanks.

 

[Abstract]

I think it'll be very slow except for Photoshop. People have run PS on slower Mac laptops years ago, so I'm sure you'll be fine on a newer iBook.

As a whole, I think you'll find all these types of apps slow on all laptops except the ones that use huge Pentium 4s and are 1.5" thick. Otherwise, you're not going to get a fast Centrino or AMD portable that is both fast and as cheap as the iBook.

 

[robbieduncan]

Speed will not be your only problem. Most of these apps use a lot of tool windows/viewers/... The iBook has seriously limited screen resolution (unless you use the spanning hack and an external display). Whilst this will not stop the apps running it will limit your enjoyment.

 

[LimeiBook86]

I'd say definetly go with a PowerBook...at least a 15-inch. Wait a little while since Apple is probably updating them soon. An iBook is nice but, the PowerBooks are made for the pros, and judging by the types of programs you want to run I'd say your a Pro. Get the PowerBook but, wait for the next revision...or even until the intel ones.

I'm in a similar situation, I have a 867mhz 12" PowerBook G4, I need more power but, I'm not happy with the current PowerBook models and I'm very hesitant to buy anything now....especially with the intel Macs coming out in a year or so. I'm actually thinking of a G5 desktop because I need a powerful machine...but I also need one that's also portable, too bad there isn't a G5 equivalent of the PowerBook yet.

 

[MovieCutter]

Absolutely not. I work in all those apps constantly and iBook will NOT do it. FCP maybe, but certainly not Shake or After Effects. With FCP especially, the faster hard drives, graphics cards, more video memory, and faster busses are worth the extra cash. That being said...running Photoshop or FCP on a 1024x768 screen is nothing short of PAINFUL. Get a Powerbook and you'll be much happier and you'll actually be able to run half of those apps.

 

[MovieCutter]

Oh, and you may NOT want to wait until the Intel ones unless Apple and Adobe properly and successfully port the apps to x86 code. Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, After Effects and Shake are certainly not apps that are going to run very well under Rosetta. Buy the last PowerPC Powerbook unless there is solid evidence that those apps run exceedingly well on a phantom Intel Powerbook.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Oh, and you may NOT want to wait until the Intel ones unless Apple and Adobe properly and successfully port the apps to x86 code. Final Cut Pro, Photoshop, After Effects and Shake are certainly not apps that are going to run very well under Rosetta. Buy the last PowerPC Powerbook unless there is solid evidence that those apps run exceedingly well on a phantom Intel Powerbook.

I completley agree...I wish I remembered to say that

 

[quadrakid]

wow! Thanks for all the suggestions. Definately a help. Unfortunately I cannot afford to wait another year as I need a portable device to serve me in a mac based study environment.

As I said I will complete any serious video work on my desktop machine. But good to get an idea that even running these apps is unrealistic on an ibook.

Yeah, and point taken about Final Cut and screen size. I've come to really appreciate a dual screen set up on my desktop, spreading out palattes and having a constant unhindered view of both source and canvas windows. I had not thought about that factor one iota and was leaning toward 12inch models over the fractional speed bump and larger (15") screen sizes. The 17" seems luxurious but too big and awkward for carrying around everyday and traveling with.

Anyway my purposes with these apps on the laptop is to get to know the software inside out so I can troubleshoot it, and help students use it. I wont be using it to cut HD footage or mucjk around with AE plug-ins or dozens of Final cut filters (although) I probably will try! I mean I wont be relying on the machine to do processor intensive tasks.

It looks like a G4Powerbook is the most likely model for this. I've seen both Finalcut and aftereffects up and running on a 1.5gh 12" - slow but entirely useable. Has the heat issue been addressed in the powerbooks at all? I remember when they first came out the 12" in particular generated a lot of heat when given a workout.

As for the question to wheather Adobe products will be ported successfully to x86. In my experience cs2 absolutely flys when run on a 3500 64bit AMD.

 

[quadrakid]

Hey Moviecutter: Just looking at your specs- You can put 2GB's of RAM in a 15"PB!? Cool. Whatever I get I was going to get it with at least 1GB RAM.

Is the G4 processor really able to take advantage of more than a gig of RAM?

Ah I just noticed you have an AGDVX! I have the same camera. Been the loving progressive modes

 

[MovieCutter]

Hey Moviecutter: Just looking at your specs- You can put 2GB's of RAM in a 15"PB!? Cool. Whatever I get I was going to get it with at least 1GB RAM.

Is the G4 processor really able to take advantage of more than a gig of RAM?

Ah I just noticed you have an AGDVX! I have the same camera. Been the loving progressive modes

i like my XL-2 more than the DVX actually, mainly because of the size and feel. The DVX probably shoots a bit better in low light.

Yeah, I put 2 GB of RAM in my PB. When are you looking at getting one? I may be parting with mine for around $2k soon if you're interested.

And about the Adobe apps, it's not a matter of simply porting to x86, it's porting to x86 and playing nice with OSX on x86.

 

[quadrakid]

Yeah, i got my DVX about a year ago and at the time it was a real toss up between it and the XL2.

I'm looking to purchase within the next week or two. Where abouts are you? I'm Melbourne Australia. How old is your PB?

I checked out two apple stores today and I can get the educational price. They seemed like they would not budge on that price but were willing to negotiate on the price of RAM. I was a bit shocked that I would void the warranty if I opened the machine up and put the RAM in myself. Being PC for years I've always custom built my own machines.

Why are you looking to sell your PB?

 

[MovieCutter]

I'm in the Chicago area in the U.S. And you actually don't void your warranty if you open up the machine and put RAM in yourself...that only happens if you break something in the process. I was hoping new Powerbooks would be out soon so I was going to unload mine for a steal and get the new one, but maybe not as soon as you're looking to buy. Seeing as it's unlikely new books are coming out, you'd be good in getting a new one in the next week or two as long as your under the understanding that the current ones were released on January 31st...almost 8 months ago.

 

[FFTT]

If you're thinking about running Final Cut Studio HD, You want to keep in mind that the Application, sounds and templates are 45 GB alone.

See below about HD authoring.......

MovieCutter can fill you in on the rest, but here's the system requirments
from Apple

Final Cut Studio System Requirements
Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) or G5 processor; HD features require 1GHz or faster single or dual processor; authoring of HD DVDs requires a PowerPC G5 processor.
512MB of physical RAM; HD features require 1GB of RAM or more (2GB recommended)
Mac OS X v10.3.9 or Mac OS X v10.4 (or later); Core Image Units and 16- and 32-bit float rendering in Motion 2 require Mac OS X v10.4 or later
Display with at least 1024 x 768 resolution
QuickTime 7 (or later)
DVD drive required for installation
DLT drive recommended for transporting projects on tape to a replicator (suggested for DVD-9 projects)
AGP Quartz Extreme graphics card
Motion 2 requires the standard graphics card found on any Power Mac G5 or iMac G5, a 1.25GHz or faster PowerBook G4 or a 1.25GHz or faster flat-panel iMac. Any of the following graphics cards is highly recommended: NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 Ultra DDL, NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 GT DDL (NV40), ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (RV M11), ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (R350) or ATI Radeon 9800 XT (R360).
4GB of disk space required to install all applications; additional 41GB required to install all optional templates, loops, content and tutorials (may be installed on separate disks)
Playback of HD DVDs authored in DVD Studio Pro 4 requires a PowerPC G5 processor, Mac OS X v10.4 and Apple DVD Player 4.6 (or later)

 

[Abstract]

It looks like a G4Powerbook is the most likely model for this. I've seen both Finalcut and aftereffects up and running on a 1.5gh 12" - slow but entirely useable. Has the heat issue been addressed in the powerbooks at all? I remember when they first came out the 12" in particular generated a lot of heat when given a workout.

Nah, if you were satisfied with the speed of these apps on a 1.5GHz 12" PB, then it should be just as fast on a 12" iBook (except for the slower HD in the iBook. The video card of the 12" PB is arguably better, but with more vRAM, so....).

 

[512ke]

The only think I know about is FCP. Yeah, a PB would be better. However, I edited a feature film on my iBook. It works.

With a PB or an iBook, neither one will have a hard drive that's sufficiently fast to edit lots of video. You'll want a fast external HD. Also, if you use your internal HD for your source video, then you'll burn out the drive faster.

The bigger problem I see with using an iBook for FCP a lot is that you won't have video mirroring. It would be nice to mirror...

But again...although no laptop is ideal for video...the iBook works.

I hope that's helpful. 512ke.

 

[quadrakid]

If you're thinking about running Final Cut Studio HD, You want to keep in mind that the Application, sounds and templates are 45 GB alone. . .

I dont really need to run High Definition version as I'm running the software primarily to get to totally know it inside out so I can properly troubleshoot it for other students. If I work in FCP 5.0 then the same principals will flow onto other versions.

As an aside: The specs required to crunch HD Video look intense. Here comes a revival of the art of an offline edit!

Theres no whiff of a speedbump update for the PB's anytime soon. Just a shame the price hasn't dropped. It's a bit of a $ hike comparing a 15" PB to the updated 14"ibook. Looks like the PB is still my most likely option.

 

[FFTT]

Regardless of the platform you're working in, you pay a premium for
portablility in any good laptop.

In the ideal situation, you'd have BOTH a portable and a G5 2.3 dually
in your lab.

For education purposes and learning your way around the applications,
a well equipped PowerBook should cover your needs.

The only thing bugging me is that by the time you properly equip a 15"
PowerBook, (including AppleCare) you're spending enough to buy that G5 2.3.

The G5 2.3 would give you much faster dual 64 bit processors, standard 7200 RPM HD's, Professional GPU support for those HD renders and truly professional productivity.

Adding a Dell 2405 FPW display with picture in picture and picture by picture capablities and you're ready to roll. $800

Your students should be aware that they've chosen a very expensive profession.

G5 Specifications excluding 2 GB 3rd party RAM

Dual 2.3GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256
250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
ATI Radeon 9650 w/256MB DDR SDRAM
56k V.92 internal modem
16x SuperDrive double-layer (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English

$2370 Education

15" PowerBook Specifications excluding 1 GB 3rd party RAM

512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 SO-DIMM
100GB Ultra ATA drive @ 5400 rpm
8x SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
1.67GHz PowerPC G4 w/64MB VRAM
AirPort Extreme Card
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
AppleCare Protection Plan for PowerBook (w/ or w/o Display)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
15.2-inch TFT Display

$2428 Education