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iCloud Drive: Reliability and keeping files locally

K

Kimcha

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 19, 2012
211
189
Hey guys,

So with iCloud finally being end-to-end encrypted, I am considering whether I should move my documents to iCloud Drive.

My primary goal is to be able to access my documents on my phone. But I absolutely don't want them to live JUST in the cloud. I would like to make sure a local copy is always retained on my mac and the cloud is just used for syncing.

Is that possible?

I don't want to use "Desktop & Documents Folders" in iCloud option. Instead I just want to create a "My iCloud Documents" folder in iCloud Drive and then create an alias for it in my regular "Documents" folder.

I noticed that some folders in iCloud have a little cloud with down-arrow. I couldn't find any documentation, but it seems like that these are folders that are in the cloud, but not on my mac. Clicking the icon downloads the files.

So my main question is:

But does clicking the download icon make sure that the files will ALWAYS be on my mac? Or does iCloud still try to delete them if I run low on space for example?

And my secondary question is:

Has anyone experienced any reliability issues with iCloud drive where files have disappeared or something didn't work? Is it reliable enough to entrust it your main document folder with all the most important documents in your life?

Thank you in advance!

Edit: I came up with a solution that allows you to use iCloud Drive and mitigate potential risks in an answer below.
 
Last edited:
Kimcha said:
So my main question is:

But does clicking the download icon make sure that the files will ALWAYS be on my mac? Or does iCloud still try to delete them if I run low on space for example?
Click to expand...
No. iCloud will "evict" files when low on disk space. What is "low" is undefined. You can never guarantee that all iCloud files are stored locally.
Kimcha said:
And my secondary question is:

Has anyone experienced any reliability issues with iCloud drive where files have disappeared or something didn't work? Is it reliable enough to entrust it your main document folder with all the most important documents in your life?
Click to expand...
Even if iCloud Drive is reliable, I would never entrust it with the only copy of my data. Why? You will lose data if a) you by mistake delete something (it will be deleted in iCloud Drive too), or b) you get malware that corrupts your files (the corrupt files will replace your good files in iCloud), or c) you have some hardware corruption (corrupt files may get copied to iCloud and the good ones removed).

I always want a local copy on my boot or working disk and which is backed up to a) a local external disk (TM or CCC), and b) to a cloud (not iCloud) backup service. I use TM and CCC locally, and ArqBackup for cloud (offsite) backup.

This is not just an iCloud issue. It applies equally to Dropbox and OneDrive. All three are great as synchronisation services. And, for those who don't use backup products/service, it is a reasonable way to proceed - particularly if you have a base Mac with not enough storage.
 
gilby101 said:
Even if iCloud Drive is reliable, I would never entrust it with the only copy of my data. Why? You will lose data if a) you by mistake delete something (it will be deleted in iCloud Drive too), or b) you get malware that corrupts your files (the corrupt files will replace your good files in iCloud), or c) you have some hardware corruption (corrupt files may get copied to iCloud and the good ones removed).

I always want a local copy on my boot or working disk and which is backed up to a) a local external disk (TM or CCC), and b) to a cloud (not iCloud) backup service. I use TM and CCC locally, and ArqBackup for cloud (offsite) backup.

This is not just an iCloud issue. It applies equally to Dropbox and OneDrive. All three are great as synchronisation services. And, for those who don't use backup products/service, it is a reasonable way to proceed - particularly if you have a base Mac with not enough storage.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I came to the same conclusion.

To summerize for anyone else who might be interested in this question in the future... I identified two main risks and one solution.

Risk #1: Apple unpredictibly evicts iCloud files, which makes backups difficult​

When a file is evicted from local storage, it removes the local version and replaces it with a very small stub file that contains a link to the version of the file in iCloud Drive.

Eviction can happen manually when you right-click a file or folder in iCloud Drive and select "Remove Download" or automatically when macOS decides you are running low on space.

Theoretically, if you have the "Optimize Mac storage" option disabled, then iCloud should keep all files on your mac. But at least on older macOS versions that wasn't the case according to eclecticlight. I am not sure how Ventura behaves in this regard.

The problem with this behavior is that it makes backups difficult, since the backup software would upload those stub files instead of the actual files.

Risk #2: Loss of files, if something goes wrong on any of your iCloud Drive devices​

I found quite a few complaints about disappearing files, such as this one. It's hard to tell whether these were due to user error or due to bugs in iCloud Drive.

Whether the files are deleted due to an iCloud bug, or because malware went crazy on your Windows machine, which is using the iCloud Drive app, or for any other reason... it doesn't matter.

iCloud will still sync all those changes to all computers and delete the files everywhere.

And it will probably do so without any warning. So you might not notice it within the period during which Apple can recover the files.

And due to risk #2, you would probably not have a proper backup and be screwed.

Therefore...

My solution is to use Chronosync to sync a copy of my documents to iCloud Drive​

Instead of moving all my documents into iCloud Drive, I am continuing to keep them in my macOS Documents folder.

But in addition to that, I also set up a bidrectional sync, using Chronosync, between my Documents folder and a folder in iCloud Drive.

Chronosync is able to properly handle evicted files in iCloud Drive.

And the really cool thing is that you can set up Chronosync to never fully delete or replace files in your local documents folder. Instead it puts deleted and replaced versions into an "Archive folder".

This has two benefits:
  1. It protects you from data loss, because you can always restore a deleted file or the replaced version
  2. It gives you visibility when something was deleted or modified on the iCloud side
So...
  • When I delete or replace a file in my local Documents folder, then it is also replaced and delete immediately in iCloud Drive
  • But when I delete or replace a file inside the iCloud Drive (whether it's on my Mac, an iPhone or any other device), then the file is moved into the archive on my Mac instead of being deleted or replaced
And since your local folder always has all files that are never evicted, you can use Time Machine, ArqBackup or Backblaze to back up the data as usual.

Here is what the archive like after I deleted a file from my iPhone:
Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 21.05.34.png

I was able to restore it with just a few clicks to my Documents folder and a few seconds later it was synced back again to iCloud Drive.

This way I get all the conveniences of using iCloud Drive, but I have none of the risks.

I have had this running for a few days now and so far it's been working well. Chronosync even has a function to validate if all the files are properly in sync.

And you can enable "Smart Sync" functions that schedule the sync only when files are actually changed in the documents folder or on iCloud.

Here are my settings:
Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 21.04.27.png

Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 21.04.33.png

Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 21.04.41.png

Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 21.04.58.png

Bonus: How to backup iCloud Photos​

You may also be interested in how to properly back up your iCloud Photos library. I have documented my process here:

 
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Reactions: Arubalube, Wintermute121, GLTirebiter and 3 others
Kimcha said:
Thank you! I came to the same conclusion.

To summerize for anyone else who might be interested in this question in the future... I identified two main risks and one solution.

Risk #1: Apple unpredictibly evicts iCloud files, which makes backups difficult​

When a file is evicted from local storage, it removes the local version and replaces it with a very small stub file that contains a link to the version of the file in iCloud Drive.

Eviction can happen manually when you right-click a file or folder in iCloud Drive and select "Remove Download" or automatically when macOS decides you are running low on space.

Theoretically, if you have the "Optimize Mac storage" option disabled, then iCloud should keep all files on your mac. But at least on older macOS versions that wasn't the case according to eclecticlight. I am not sure how Ventura behaves in this regard.

The problem with this behavior is that it makes backups difficult, since the backup software would upload those stub files instead of the actual files.

Risk #2: Loss of files, if something goes wrong on any of your iCloud Drive devices​

I found quite a few complaints about disappearing files, such as this one. It's hard to tell whether these were due to user error or due to bugs in iCloud Drive.

Whether the files are deleted due to an iCloud bug, or because malware went crazy on your Windows machine, which is using the iCloud Drive app, or for any other reason... it doesn't matter.

iCloud will still sync all those changes to all computers and delete the files everywhere.

And it will probably do so without any warning. So you might not notice it within the period during which Apple can recover the files.

And due to risk #2, you would probably not have a proper backup and be screwed.

Therefore...

My solution is to use Chronosync to sync a copy of my documents to iCloud Drive​

Instead of moving all my documents into iCloud Drive, I am continuing to keep them in my macOS Documents folder.

But in addition to that, I also set up a bidrectional sync, using Chronosync, between my Documents folder and a folder in iCloud Drive.

Chronosync is able to properly handle evicted files in iCloud Drive.

And the really cool thing is that you can set up Chronosync to never fully delete or replace files in your local documents folder. Instead it puts deleted and replaced versions into an "Archive folder".

This has two benefits:
  1. It protects you from data loss, because you can always restore a deleted file or the replaced version
  2. It gives you visibility when something was deleted or modified on the iCloud side
So...
  • When I delete or replace a file in my local Documents folder, then it is also replaced and delete immediately in iCloud Drive
  • But when I delete or replace a file inside the iCloud Drive (whether it's on my Mac, an iPhone or any other device), then the file is moved into the archive on my Mac instead of being deleted or replaced
And since your local folder always has all files that are never evicted, you can use Time Machine, ArqBackup or Backblaze to back up the data as usual.

Here is what the archive like after I deleted a file from my iPhone:
View attachment 2129496
I was able to restore it with just a few clicks to my Documents folder and a few seconds later it was synced back again to iCloud Drive.

This way I get all the conveniences of using iCloud Drive, but I have none of the risks.

I have had this running for a few days now and so far it's been working well. Chronosync even has a function to validate if all the files are properly in sync.

And you can enable "Smart Sync" functions that schedule the sync only when files are actually changed in the documents folder or on iCloud.

Here are my settings:
View attachment 2129497
View attachment 2129499
View attachment 2129498
View attachment 2129500

Bonus: How to backup iCloud Photos​

You may also be interested in how to properly back up your iCloud Photos library. I have documented my process here:

Click to expand...


wow,

thanks for taking the time to share with us mere mortals! :)

Best wishes
Martin
 
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Reactions: Kimcha
I've tried iCloud Drive three or four times. and I've left iCloud Drive every single time. Why? Uploading files always get stuck right near the end of their upload and killall bird doesn't work reliably.

CloudKit (the syncing mechanism that developers use to sync their app's data to iCloud) however, is very reliable.
 
Great post! I’m also sceptical of the cloud, we all keep so many files it’s tough to know which ones could have been lost. Saying that, if you don’t know your losing files you could argue you don’t need to keep them in first place ha.
 
entropyfl said:
Great post! I’m also sceptical of the cloud, we all keep so many files it’s tough to know which ones could have been lost. Saying that, if you don’t know your losing files you could argue you don’t need to keep them in first place ha.
Click to expand...
For me, I haven't lost a file. Rather it's not having all of my files synced before I have to pack up and leave.
 
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