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innerproduct

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 21, 2021
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Apple waste many years on a car and a niche vr headset. Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Bring in some hbm cache on the chip, push the lpddr6 adoption, wider simd to go along that 2tb-+ mem bw. Spam that pro case with a ****ing cluster.
Right?
Price it to sell. Halo style.
Also, make those disgusting tahoe corners straighter. Release snow leopard for the the pros.
Consumers don’t innovate.
 
Apple waste many years on a car and a niche vr headset. Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Bring in some hbm cache on the chip, push the lpddr6 adoption, wider simd to go along that 2tb-+ mem bw. Spam that pro case with a ****ing cluster.
Right?
Price it to sell. Halo style.
Also, make those disgusting tahoe corners straighter. Release snow leopard for the the pros.
Consumers don’t innovate.

How much would you be willing to pay for it?
 
2500$ for the entry level. 5000 for the highend. Just like in 2008

According to this logic, Apple is not very expensive these days.
$2,500 was 2.84 oz gold (real money, not currency) in August 2008.

Screenshot.png


In gold, it would imply a starting price of $9,500 August 2025
 
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Apple waste many years on a car and a niche vr headset. Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Bring in some hbm cache on the chip, push the lpddr6 adoption, wider simd to go along that 2tb-+ mem bw. Spam that pro case with a ****ing cluster.
Right?
Price it to sell. Halo style.
Also, make those disgusting tahoe corners straighter. Release snow leopard for the the pros.
Consumers don’t innovate.
My guess is that the car and Vision Pro represented potential new markets for Apple to sell hardware to, while sales quantities for a new Mac Pro is more or less a known constant by now (ie: it's not very huge).
 
According to this logic, Apple is not very expensive these days.
$2,500 was 2.84 oz gold (real money, not currency) in August 2008.

View attachment 2590682

In gold, it would imply a starting price of $9,500 August 2025
Gold fluctuates in value based on many factors and has nothing to do with inflation or the dollar. This is an absurd way to compare prices in the past to prices now
 
Apple waste many years on a car and a niche vr headset. Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Bring in some hbm cache on the chip, push the lpddr6 adoption, wider simd to go along that 2tb-+ mem bw. Spam that pro case with a ****ing cluster.
Right?
Price it to sell. Halo style.
Also, make those disgusting tahoe corners straighter. Release snow leopard for the the pros.
Consumers don’t innovate.
Will it be worth their while?

Mac Studio getting a faster refresh may be an indicator of how strong demand is a Mac Studio with internal drive bay and PCIe slots.

Bulk of the computer market's on laptops.
 
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Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Why?
Because of this
Macs are well under 10% of Apple's revenue broken out by segment.
1766661070879.png


Factor in how many Mac Pros are sold

MacBooks account for 86% of total Mac sales; Mac desktops just 14%

One could estimate the 10,000 dollar mac pros rates only a few percentage points of that 14% desktop figure. Apple has long stopped being Apple Computer Inc, and it shows given how little apple makes on Macs. IMO, it makes more sense to invest in new business opportunities then one that is seemingly shrinking.

Finally the Mac Pro is an anachronism where its purpose in the line up makes no sense. What can the Mac Pro do that the Studio cannot? It may have some expansion cards, with TB5, that ability is largely mitigated.
 
Why?
Because of this
Macs are well under 10% of Apple's revenue broken out by segment.
View attachment 2590767

Factor in how many Mac Pros are sold

MacBooks account for 86% of total Mac sales; Mac desktops just 14%

One could estimate the 10,000 dollar mac pros rates only a few percentage points of that 14% desktop figure. Apple has long stopped being Apple Computer Inc, and it shows given how little apple makes on Macs. IMO, it makes more sense to invest in new business opportunities then one that is seemingly shrinking.

Finally the Mac Pro is an anachronism where its purpose in the line up makes no sense. What can the Mac Pro do that the Studio cannot? It may have some expansion cards, with TB5, that ability is largely mitigated.
Apple sells different Mac models worldwide and the latest data shows that laptops dominate Mac sales. About 80–86% of Macs sold are MacBook Pro and MacBook Air. While desktops like iMac, Mac Pro, Mac mini and Mac Studio make up only 14–20%. Among laptops the MacBook Pro has the largest share. Followed by the Air. Even though desktops like the Mac Pro and Mac Studio are more expensive they sell fewer units than laptops.

One interesting question is why more expensive Macs like the MacBook Pro sell more than cheaper ones. The answer is that Apple designed its products so that the cheaper models feel limited. Base models have smaller SSDs, less RAM, fewer ports and fewer features. Many buyers who are professionals, creators or even students see the Pro model as worth the extra cost because it lasts longer, works faster and has better performance. These buyers also care about long-term value, like resale price and total cost over several years. Apple also uses psychology: the cheapest model exists partly to make the Pro feel like a smart choice & not a luxury.

Another interesting point is why the Mac Pro is refreshed much less often than the Mac Studio even though it may sell more units than the Studio.

The main reason is that Mac Pro buyers are very different from Studio buyers.

Mac Pro customers are film studios, research labs or large companies that need stability. They buy Macs as part of a larger workflow including certified hardware, software and peripherals. Any major change to the Mac Pro could break their systems which is why Apple updates it very slowly. By contrast Mac Studio buyers expect faster refreshes and upgraded performance every year.

The Mac Pro is designed as a platform for long-term use & not a fast-moving consumer product. Its expansion slots, power and I/O are frozen by design to ensure compatibility. With Apple Silicon updating the Mac Pro means redesigning the whole system which is risky and expensive. The Studio is easier to upgrade because it targets smaller creators who want faster performance improvements. Apple also wants Mac Pro customers to feel confident that their machines will remain stable for years. Which is more valuable than frequent updates.

To put it simply Apple’s Mac sales and refresh strategies are based on buyer type and product design & not just units sold. Expensive models outsell cheaper ones because they provide better long-term value and performance. Mac Pro refreshes slowly because stability and compatibility are far more important to its buyers than novelty. Meanwhile the Mac Studio can be updated faster to meet consumer expectations.
 
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Mac Pro customers are film studios, research labs or large companies that need stability. They buy Macs as part of a larger workflow including certified hardware, software and peripherals. Any major change to the Mac Pro could break their systems which is why Apple updates it very slowly. By contrast Mac Studio buyers expect faster refreshes and upgraded performance every year.
No argument, but that's a change from when the MAc Pro was considered a general purpose desktop, now its a niche product. With the move to Apple Silicon much of the advantages of the MacPro were removed by Apple's SoC.

I'm no expert, but it seems much of what the Mac Pro does, and its existing PCIe slots can and are being replaced by the Studio with external thunderbolt devices (that were previously internal expansion cards on the mac pro).

For all intents and purposes the Studio and MAc Pro are identical computers with the one major difference - the PCIe slots but even that is seemingly mitigated by TB5
 
No argument, but that's a change from when the MAc Pro was considered a general purpose desktop, now its a niche product. With the move to Apple Silicon much of the advantages of the MacPro were removed by Apple's SoC.

I'm no expert, but it seems much of what the Mac Pro does, and its existing PCIe slots can and are being replaced by the Studio with external thunderbolt devices (that were previously internal expansion cards on the mac pro).

For all intents and purposes the Studio and MAc Pro are identical computers with the one major difference - the PCIe slots but even that is seemingly mitigated by TB5
That’s a good way to put it. The Mac Pro used to be a “general purpose” desktop for pros but now it’s really a niche product. Apple Silicon changed the game & a lot of the raw advantages the Mac Pro had like massive internal expansion and CPU/GPU power are now available in the Studio.


You’re right that external Thunderbolt devices can replace many of the PCIe cards the Mac Pro used to need. For most users the Studio does almost everything the Mac Pro does except the internal PCIe slots. Even that difference is shrinking because Thunderbolt 5 lets you connect high-speed devices externally.


For many professionals and creators the Mac Studio is now the go-to “pro” machine. While the Mac Pro mainly exists for specialized workflows that really need internal PCIe expandability.
 
Why?
Because of this
Macs are well under 10% of Apple's revenue broken out by segment.
View attachment 2590767

Factor in how many Mac Pros are sold

MacBooks account for 86% of total Mac sales; Mac desktops just 14%

One could estimate the 10,000 dollar mac pros rates only a few percentage points of that 14% desktop figure. Apple has long stopped being Apple Computer Inc, and it shows given how little apple makes on Macs. IMO, it makes more sense to invest in new business opportunities then one that is seemingly shrinking.

Finally the Mac Pro is an anachronism where its purpose in the line up makes no sense. What can the Mac Pro do that the Studio cannot? It may have some expansion cards, with TB5, that ability is largely mitigated.
While I understand and appreciate your logic, I also think that Apple still needs a 'halo' product...sort of like how a car company throws all the technological bells and whistles in a sports car or high end luxury car that has negative direct ROI, but is really a marketing ploy to promote the brand (and it signals to the market that some of the bells and whistles will trickle down to other models in the future -- "this model now features the magnetic suspension from our flagship model").

Now, that said -- Apple Vision Pro serves that purpose for a smaller segment of the market (with some design features making their way into iOS et al), and the new technology that enables you to link Mac Studios together is very promising for another segment (perhaps fulfilling my silly dream of a Mac Pro with multiple daughter cards).
 
Apple waste many years on a car and a niche vr headset. Why can’t they (why won’t they!?) make a decent mac pro?
Bring in some hbm cache on the chip, push the lpddr6 adoption, wider simd to go along that 2tb-+ mem bw. Spam that pro case with a ****ing cluster.
Right?
Price it to sell. Halo style.
Also, make those disgusting tahoe corners straighter. Release snow leopard for the the pros.
Consumers don’t innovate.
As you suggest, the MP is a halo product [but note that halo does not mean "Price it to sell"]. As such my guess [hope] is that Apple will only release a new MP when they think they have a very good top-of-the-line product developed, not simply upgraded as you also suggest. I do think [hope] Apple has been working on developing such a MP.
 
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Mac Pro is casualty after Apple moved to Apple silicon. It needs significant investments and a separate strategy to make it expandable. Apple studio is the new Mac Pro for most part. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mac Pro is discontinued. Apple laptops account for almost 80-85% of Mac revenue. Apple will make desktops compatible to over all Apple mac line. Expandable Mac Pro is history.
 
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This rather needs putting to bed: The Apple Car never existed. It was cover for the Vision Pro.

The sensor suite mounted to the tops of the cars was just an enlarged version of the Vision Pro designed to collect real world data without alerting the competition.

Apple hired Car Designers because it needed new talent. The last think Ive designed before joining Apple was a toilet!

As soon as the Vision Pro came out the ‘car team’ was immediately disbanded, likely because Apple now had IRL user data to use for product development.
 
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