"If you have a new Mac M4 Mini, You Need To watch This Video"

[AlaskaMoose]

I watched a YouTube video where the host titled it,

What's Killing My M4 Mac mini Wifi Speed - Design Flaw or my Accessories?​

While I don't have a M4 Mini, maybe it would be of interest to M4 Mini users. However, I am creating this thread with the hope that the video's host can she some light to those of you who have the M4 Mini. By the way, I wonder if peripheral devices such as SSD drives can also affect the WiFi speed of the MBP if place in close proximity to it?

 

[JPack]

Didn't watch the video, but if it's about hubs and Wi-Fi speed, it's a fairly well known issue especially with notebook owners. A lot of those cheaper hubs haven't been RF tested and will negatively affect wireless performance.

 

[Alameda]

For one thing, it’s a desktop computer so the best approach is to use Ethernet anyway. But if that’s not feasible, turn the thing upside down. The WiFi antennas are on the bottom, covered by plastic. Just don’t spill anything on it.

But, ok, let’s say you don’t want to use Ethernet and you don’t want to turn it upside down. Then the solution is to use longer, well-shielded cables to prevent their RF emissions from interfering with the operation of the radio inside the computer. The interference of these devices falls dramatically with distance, as long as the cable doesn’t become an antenna itself. Fortunately, it appears to be the devices and not the cables causing the interference.

You bought a computer with a radio inside of it. Apple cannot prevent another device from emitting RF signals which interfere with that radio. Those devices are supposed to be FCC compliant but perhaps at a few inches of distance they can pass FCC testing yet still interfere with the computer’s operation.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

For one thing, it’s a desktop computer so the best approach is to use Ethernet anyway. But if that’s not feasible, turn the thing upside down. The WiFi antennas are on the bottom, covered by plastic. Just don’t spill anything on it.

But, ok, let’s say you don’t want to use Ethernet and you don’t want to turn it upside down. Then the solution is to use longer, well-shielded cables to prevent their RF emissions from interfering with the operation of the radio inside the computer. The interference of these devices falls dramatically with distance, as long as the cable doesn’t become an antenna itself. Fortunately, it appears to be the devices and not the cables causing the interference.

You bought a computer with a radio inside of it. Apple cannot prevent another device from emitting RF signals which interfere with that radio. Those devices are supposed to be FCC compliant but perhaps at a few inches of distance they can pass FCC testing yet still interfere with the computer’s operation.

That is how I interpreted the discussion taking place in the video. If I am not mistaken, the problem is not necessarily about the Mini nor external devices that include SSDs or just SSDs. He also says that separating the hub he was using-and also external SSDs-from the Mini, increases its WiFi speed. Something he said is that he hasn't tried the Apple TB cable. He is not telling people what or what not to do, but to figure out the problem he pointed to.

I do know that some users attach external SSDs (in enclosures) to the hack of their MB screen, and was wondering if such devices in close proximity to these MacBooks have the same effect as what happens to the Mini?

 

[bradman83]

That is how I interpreted the discussion taking place in the video. If I am not mistaken, the problem is not necessarily about the Mini nor external devices that include SSDs or just SSDs. He also says that separating the hub he was using-and also external SSDs-from the Mini, increases its WiFi speed. Something he said is that he hasn't tried the Apple TB cable. He is not telling people what or what not to do, but to figure out the problem he pointed to.

I do know that some users attach external SSDs (in enclosures) to the hack of their MB screen, and was wondering if such devices in close proximity to these MacBooks have the same effect as what happens to the Mini?

Devices using USB 3 and later are known to emit radio interference from the cables, particularly cheap cables with poor shielding, that can cause issues with a wide variety of wireless devices. This could explain the issues not just from the hubs but also from external SSDs. Upgrading to higher quality cables with better shielding can help to mitigate the effects.

 

[HiVolt]

You bought a computer with a radio inside of it. Apple cannot prevent another device from emitting RF signals which interfere with that radio. Those devices are supposed to be FCC compliant but perhaps at a few inches of distance they can pass FCC testing yet still interfere with the computer’s operation.

What's dumb is that the antennas are on the bottom. they could have easily made the antennas integrate into the aluminum top by having "antenna bands" like they have done on many products in the past.

they just chose an easy way out.

 

[JuicyGoomba]

USB3 negatively affects both WiFi and BT

 

[Alameda]

What's dumb is that the antennas are on the bottom. they could have easily made the antennas integrate into the aluminum top by having "antenna bands" like they have done on many products in the past.

they just chose an easy way out.

And then people would complain that putting a drive or anything else on top of the computer kills WiFi.

I just bought a long Ethernet cable and ran it to my router, so I never have this problem.

 

[djducat]

17 minute video that could have been a couple of paragraphs in a blog or forum post

 

[Matz]

17 minute video that could have been a couple of paragraphs in a blog or forum post

I agree that the conclusions could have easily been reduced to a couple of paragraphs. However, he showed the process of arriving at those conclusions, which I found interesting and worth watching.

Based on watching this, I'm going to mess around with my setup to see if my wifi speed is affected by the Mini's placement relative to metal, including enclosures and even the metal monitor stand.

 

[jedimasterkyle]

I just bought a long Ethernet cable and ran it to my router, so I never have this problem.

That's how I have my M2 Mac Mini running. A very long Cat 6 ethernet cable from my switch to my Mac Mini and voila, no issues. Even with my VPN active, I'm getting better speeds than what my ISP advertises.

 

[Matz]

My internet is through Starlink, since I live in the sticks. I normally get between 120 to 200 MBPS, which allows me to do whatever I need to do. However, I just checked my WiFi speed, and it is much slower than it was the last time I checked, maybe a month ago. In fact, it’s slower on all of my devices; not just on the new Mini. Hmmm.

Nonetheless, I moved the external drive, using a longer cable, to about a foot away from the Mini. This improved the speed, but nowhere near what it used to be. It seems I have some troubleshooting to do.

In the meantime, I connected the Mini to Starlink using an old Ethernet cable, and the speed increased dramatically. That will hold me, at least on the Mini, until I can get this WiFi issue sorted out.

 

[Alameda]

My internet is through Starlink, since I live in the sticks. I normally get between 120 to 200 MBPS, which allows me to do whatever I need to do. However, I just checked my WiFi speed, and it is much slower than it was the last time I checked, maybe a month ago. In fact, it’s slower on all of my devices; not just on the new Mini. Hmmm.

Nonetheless, I moved the external drive, using a longer cable, to about a foot away from the Mini. This improved the speed, but nowhere near what it used to be. It seems I have some troubleshooting to do.

In the meantime, I connected the Mini to Starlink using an old Ethernet cable, and the speed increased dramatically. That will hold me, at least on the Mini, until I can get this WiFi issue sorted out.

If all of your WiFi devices are slower, it’s probably your WiFi router. You could try rebooting it or moving it. Interesting fact about WiFi is that it uses a technology called MiMo to get the highest speed. That’s to say, it takes advantage of signal reflections to boost speed. Put a WiFi router in an open field and it will perform more poorly than if placed in the corner of a room. So just try a few different adjustments to where it’s located and you might get better performance.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I agree that the conclusions could have easily been reduced to a couple of paragraphs. However, he showed the process of arriving at those conclusions, which I found interesting and worth watching.

Based on watching this, I'm going to mess around with my setup to see if my wifi speed is affected by the Mini's placement relative to metal, including enclosures and even the metal monitor stand.

That's exactly why I posted the YouTube video. I watched it to its entirety, and although I don't have a M4 Mini, I still posted the video hoping that it could be to the benefit to Mini users who may be having similar WiFi slowdowns.

 

[blufrog]

M4 Pro owner...WiFi 6 in a fairly busy area, and it seems to work fine. Even transferring files between my Mini and iMac 5K is nice and fast. Both systems are about 50 ft away in opposite directions from the AP through several walls at oblique angles. WiFi is generally strong across the entire inside of our house, with about 10 WiFi devices on the network.

My Mini is sat upside down for thermal reasons, against the furthest wall from the AP. Construction is block for the external wall, and boarded block and stud wall for the internals.

 

[blufrog]

I watched the video...one thing that stands out is that these enclosures are running at high speed (USB4/TB4 or 5 performance). I have some USB4 devices for my PC that are very explicit in stating that the radiation emitted from the USB cables can cause WiFi and Bluetooth to straight-up disconnect and cease working.

The reason is the emitted RF and 2nd/3rd harmonics from the cable is getting up into the WiFi area of operation, and causing strong but localized RF interference.

It would be interesting to try wrapping the enclosures and cables completely in aluminum foil (thereby creating a faraday shield), and seeing if the performance improves.

Either way, I think it is best to keep these high-speed devices away from the computer itself.

I definitely encounter drop-outs of BT headphones when using high-speed USB devices (e.g. USB monitors). It would be interesting to get an RF analyzer and see what is being emitted, and from where.

From what I understand about it so far, it is the cables themselves that are emitting the RF, with the cables acting as antenna (they are the right length). High-speed USB4 also requires really short cables to operate reliably, too, suggesting it is closer to RF frequencies.

 

[blufrog]

USB 3.0 Radio Frequency Interference Impact on 2.4 GHz Wireless Devices | USB-IF

www.usb.org

 

[blufrog]

Wifi 5GHz stops working after connecting … - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

 

[Altis]

Just experienced this yesterday with M4 Mini.

I have a Samsung T7 USB-C drive connected directly to it sitting about 5 inches beside it. I also had a USB-SATA SSD connected to the monitor hub, so about 2ft away.

When I started transferring a large amount of data from the T7 to the SSD, my wifi disconnected entirely. It showed local networks but wouldn't really connect the entire time it was transferring. Once it was done, it went back to normal.

I plan to use ethernet anyways so it won't really affect me but I was suprised just how affected it was. Kind of makes me wish it had more internal storage options.

 

[DaveEcc]

Haven't watched the video, but am aware of possible interference. While transferring things from my old iMac, I noticed it was slow. Due to cramped desk space, I'd put the new mini under my monitor. Moving it to be in front of the monitor immediately tripled the speed.

 

[Populus]

What's dumb is that the antennas are on the bottom. they could have easily made the antennas integrate into the aluminum top by having "antenna bands"

Or... Integrate them behind the black Apple plastic window.

 

[rukind2]

And then people would complain that putting a drive or anything else on top of the computer kills WiFi.

I just bought a long Ethernet cable and ran it to my router, so I never have this problem.

I use ethernet to connect directly to the modem.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Or... Integrate them behind the black Apple plastic window.

More than likely it's a lot easier and cheaper for Apple to not re-design the new M4 Mini from the ground up. In this case, placing the power button, and probably the antenna in the correct location. But to redesign the Mini with the best materials, components, and correct locations costs a lot more money.

Nowadays companies can have all the parts for an entire Mini in digital form (in a computer). All the "designer", who's nothing more than an employee that is trained to put a "digital" Mini together, should be able to cram all the digital parts in the small digital case. He or she is not paid to "redesign" the Mini (moving the ports, power button, antenna, and so on), just to move each part "as designed," into the case. The now new digital Mini is put together using actual parts at the factory, in accordance to the digital Mini. If you take apart a Mini M4, the M4 engine inside seems well-designed, but the case and panels are relatively cheap.

And yes, companies do use engineers and designers.