ifixit article on KeyGate™

[Fishrrman]

https://ifixit.org/blog/10229/macbook-pro-keyboard/

"A titan of tech and industrial innovation has been laid low by a mere speck of dust. Last week, Apple quietly announced that they were extending the warranty on their flagship laptop’s keyboard to four years. As it turns out, the initial run of these keyboards, described by Jony Ive as thin, precise, and “sturdy,” has been magnificently prone to failure."

More at URL above...

 

[dontpokebearz]

In my opinion, the last 2 generations of MacBook and MacBook Pro's had the best keyboard. The first retina keyboards were too flimsy, and make a horrible crunch sound when sliding your fingers over them. It feels cheap. Now, I'm open to changes and improvements and would be open to the new keyboard if it wasn't prone to failure. Simply put it's a huge oversight in engineering and QA that a spec of dust can reek havoc on the machines, and also another engineering blunder by making it so hard to repair.

Hoping the next generation's will be better.

 

[tubeexperience]

Apple recommends that you only use your MacBook Pro in a cleanroom environment

 

[jerryk]

I feel better and better about getting "forced" into buying my 2015 15" MBP in the summer of 2016 because the new MBP did not show at WWDC and I could not wait any longer.

 

[tubeexperience]

A single grain of sand (on the bottom right) has blocked the butterfly mechanism from working.

 

[Lennyvalentin]

Making things unreasonably thin so they're impossible to repair, and even becomes unreliable to use, is not just a PITA for users who pay (a lot! of) money for these computers, it's also an environmental issue because having to replace large portions of a laptop which is hard or to some extent even impossible to recycle due to largely being glued together because of a mere speck of debris in a single keyboard key is incredibly wasteful in energy and finite resources.

So far Apple hasn't given a flying you-know-what about any of that though, but if this starts to affect the company bottom line maybe we can also begin to see a change in how they operate. Maybe.

First change I'd like to see is for them to STOP!!!! with all the god damned glue they're squirting all over the place! Apple Watch; almost entirely glued together. iPads, same thing. iMac Pro - you buy a $5k-10k computer and it is PERMANENTLY GLUED SHUT - WTF?!? What is this??? Macbooks - batteries glued in, keyboards glued in, speakers, touchbar too is glued in... Then peripherals. You can't open up a Time Capsule without ripping off the entire silicone pad underneath. Why the hell aren't the screwholes exposed? They're underneath the device where nobody can see them! Apple TV remote - all glue. Magic Mouse - all glue everywhere throughout the entire thing. Pencil, earpods, including the charging case, Apple Watch charging puck; on and on seemingly forever it goes.

Jesus. Enough already!

 

[winterny]

keyboards glued in

You are totally wrong... The keyboard is not glued in, it is riveted in.

Glue would probably be easier to remove than the rivets.

 

[Lennyvalentin]

The keyboard is not glued in, it is riveted in.

Whups, my bad then!

Also, the microphone in the (now discontinued) $1k Thunderbolt Display was secured using cellophane tape... Wow, how cheap isn't that.

 

[YsoSerious]

Making things unreasonably thin so they're impossible to repair, and even becomes unreliable to use, is not just a PITA for users who pay (a lot! of) money for these computers, it's also an environmental issue because having to replace large portions of a laptop which is hard or to some extent even impossible to recycle due to largely being glued together because of a mere speck of debris in a single keyboard key is incredibly wasteful in energy and finite resources.

So far Apple hasn't given a flying you-know-what about any of that though, but if this starts to affect the company bottom line maybe we can also begin to see a change in how they operate. Maybe.

First change I'd like to see is for them to STOP!!!! with all the god damned glue they're squirting all over the place! Apple Watch; almost entirely glued together. iPads, same thing. iMac Pro - you buy a $5k-10k computer and it is PERMANENTLY GLUED SHUT - WTF?!? What is this??? Macbooks - batteries glued in, keyboards glued in, speakers, touchbar too is glued in... Then peripherals. You can't open up a Time Capsule without ripping off the entire silicone pad underneath. Why the hell aren't the screwholes exposed? They're underneath the device where nobody can see them! Apple TV remote - all glue. Magic Mouse - all glue everywhere throughout the entire thing. Pencil, earpods, including the charging case, Apple Watch charging puck; on and on seemingly forever it goes.

Jesus. Enough already!

Agreed!

 

[Count Blah]

First change I'd like to see is for them to STOP!!!! with all the god damned glue they're squirting all over the place! Apple Watch; almost entirely glued together. iPads, same thing. iMac Pro - you buy a $5k-10k computer and it is PERMANENTLY GLUED SHUT - WTF?!? What is this??? Macbooks - batteries glued in, keyboards glued in, speakers, touchbar too is glued in...

Hey man, Apple is a champion of the environment!!!!

 

[casperghst42]

In my opinion, the last 2 generations of MacBook and MacBook Pro's had the best keyboard. The first retina keyboards were too flimsy, and make a horrible crunch sound when sliding your fingers over them. It feels cheap. Now, I'm open to changes and improvements and would be open to the new keyboard if it wasn't prone to failure. Simply put it's a huge oversight in engineering and QA that a spec of dust can reek havoc on the machines, and also another engineering blunder by making it so hard to repair.

Hoping the next generation's will be better.

I got an early 2013 15" Retina, which is being used every single day, and the keyboard have never had a problem, the keyboard might not be up to Evy design standards, but it it works, and will continue to work. I guess over the years, I'd probably dropped half a sandstorm, more breadcrumbs than I dear to think about, and a spill of water of two into it, and it still work... which is basic thing about keyboards, they just need to work, no matter what you do to them.

 

[posguy99]

Also, the microphone in the (now discontinued) $1k Thunderbolt Display was secured using cellophane tape... Wow, how cheap isn't that.

Clickbait, I know, but Kapton tape is hardly normal cellophane office supply tape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

 

[Lennyvalentin]

Clickbait, I know, but Kapton tape is hardly normal cellophane office supply tape.

Kapton, cellophane, whatever. My point is, they TAPED the microphone in place in a $1000 computer monitor. For that amount of money I expect a small bracket and a screw holding that mic secured.

 

[burgman]

Making things unreasonably thin so they're impossible to repair, and even becomes unreliable to use, is not just a PITA for users who pay (a lot! of) money for these computers, it's also an environmental issue because having to replace large portions of a laptop which is hard or to some extent even impossible to recycle due to largely being glued together because of a mere speck of debris in a single keyboard key is incredibly wasteful in energy and finite resources.

So far Apple hasn't given a flying you-know-what about any of that though, but if this starts to affect the company bottom line maybe we can also begin to see a change in how they operate. Maybe.

First change I'd like to see is for them to STOP!!!! with all the god damned glue they're squirting all over the place! Apple Watch; almost entirely glued together. iPads, same thing. iMac Pro - you buy a $5k-10k computer and it is PERMANENTLY GLUED SHUT - WTF?!? What is this??? Macbooks - batteries glued in, keyboards glued in, speakers, touchbar too is glued in... Then peripherals. You can't open up a Time Capsule without ripping off the entire silicone pad underneath. Why the hell aren't the screwholes exposed? They're underneath the device where nobody can see them! Apple TV remote - all glue. Magic Mouse - all glue everywhere throughout the entire thing. Pencil, earpods, including the charging case, Apple Watch charging puck; on and on seemingly forever it goes.

Jesus. Enough already!

You might want to look round at all mass produced products, from planes, cars, furniture, almost all electronics except super high end low volume pro gear. Adhesives are the norm, stronger, easier assembly, think Robots with an adhesive gun vs many fasteners . Is it right, another discussion, Is Apple alone in using it or invented the process, no. Basically the assembly techniques learned in surface mount component boards was adapted to entire assembles.

 

[Lennyvalentin]

Basically the assembly techniques learned in surface mount component boards was adapted to entire assembles.

Oh, undoubtedly glue is a great convenience to makers of gadgets, but it's not a viable strategy because the gadgets become basically unrepairable, and that's environmentally unviable due to the waste it creates when high-tech stuff has to be junked more or less entirely rather than fixed. A cellphone or anything else using touch screens and modern electronics uses the vast majority of the periodic table, including some elements that are in quite short supply.

Throwing stuff like that away is bad all around, even if it makes manufacturing it in the first place a lot easier.

 

[dontpokebearz]

I got an early 2013 15" Retina, which is being used every single day, and the keyboard have never had a problem, the keyboard might not be up to Evy design standards, but it it works, and will continue to work. I guess over the years, I'd probably dropped half a sandstorm, more breadcrumbs than I dear to think about, and a spill of water of two into it, and it still work... which is basic thing about keyboards, they just need to work, no matter what you do to them.

You are definitely right in it's reliability. Never had an issue with keys not registering or anything like that. I just don't like the feel.