install MacOS (mojave or catalina) on new external SSD and then boot from it

[jlabenberg]

Unsure if this feedback request should go here or the hardware section for iMacs.

I have a late 2017 27"iMac with 3.4 Ghz intel core i5 with 8gb ram and 1tb SATA disk and it's running pretty slow with Mojave installed

I have asked for help here on MacRumors and a RAM upgrade as well as an external SSD to boot from was the suggestion.

The RAM is pretty straightforward for purchase and install - however - unsure of how to install operating system on a new SSD and then have my iMac boot from it. Is this something that I can do by myself?

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the "how-tos" of installing MacOS (catalina or mojave) and then having my iMAC boot from that drive while using the internal 1TB SATA drive for storage

thank you

 

[Dave Braine]

Is this something that I can do by myself?

Yes, it should be. When you run the MacOS Installer, it should ask you where you want to install it. Just choose the external drive.

When the installation is complete, go to System Preferences>Startup Disk and select the external drive. Your Mac should then restart using that disk, and then use it in the future.

 

[Juicy Box]

You may also need to format the external SSD to the correct format. You this as a reference if you need to:

Use Disk Utility to erase an Intel-based Mac - Apple Support

How to erase (format) the built-in startup disk of an Intel-based Mac.

support.apple.com

Once you format and install, you can use Apple's Migration Assistant to move all you info, data, and settings from your old boot drive.

Everything is pretty easy, although maybe it might be intimidating if one hasn't ever done it before.

Searching the internet would be able to answer just about any question you have, and if it doesn't, post here or make another thread if you can't find a solution.

 

[jlabenberg]

You may also need to format the external SSD to the correct format. You this as a reference if you need to:

Use Disk Utility to erase an Intel-based Mac - Apple Support

How to erase (format) the built-in startup disk of an Intel-based Mac.

support.apple.com

Once you format and install, you can use Apple's Migration Assistant to move all you info, data, and settings from your old boot drive.

Everything is pretty easy, although maybe it might be intimidating if one hasn't ever done it before.

Searching the internet would be able to answer just about any question you have, and if it doesn't, post here or make another thread if you can't find a solution.

Do you have a suggestion for a small SSD drive - don’t rearly need more than 256Gb - I still will have the internal 1Tb drive

 

[jlabenberg]

Yes, it should be. When you run the MacOS Installer, it should ask you where you want to install it. Just choose the external drive.

When the installation is complete, go to System Preferences>Startup Disk and select the external drive. Your Mac should then restart using that disk, and then use it in the future.

Do you have a suggestion for a 256gb ssd? And since i have 2x4gb ram already - i’m guessing buying 2X4gb in addition of RAM would be a decent amount of RAM (16gb) for the machine - or should I go with 4X8gb for a total of 32gb - of course this option would require me to buy 4 new 8gb Ram and not use the 2X4b Ram that is already in the machine

 

[Juicy Box]

Do you have a suggestion for a small SSD drive - don’t rearly need more than 256Gb - I still will have the internal 1Tb drive

Are you going for pure speed? Or, just something that is overall faster than your Fusion Drive with a 32GB SSD?

You could get a SATA SSD, which will probably be overall faster considering your Fusion Drive's SSD is so small, or get something NVMe based, which will be really, really fast, but more expensive than the SATA based SSD.

 

[jlabenberg]

Are you going for pure speed? Or, just something that is overall faster than your Fusion Drive with a 32GB SSD?

You could get a SATA SSD, which will probably be overall faster considering your Fusion Drive's SSD is so small, or get something NVMe based, which will be really, really fast, but more expensive than the SATA based SSD.

my iMAC does not have a FUSION drive - just a basic 1TB SATA drive

 

[Juicy Box]

my iMAC does not have a FUSION drive - just a basic 1TB SATA drive

Sorry, I was confusing your thread with a very similar one that I recently replied to.

That said, this info pretty much still applies to a Fusion Drive or HDD:

Are you going for pure speed? Or, just something that is overall faster than your Fusion Drive with a 32GB SSD (HDD)?

You could get a SATA SSD, which will probably be overall faster considering your Fusion Drive's SSD is so small (you are currently using an HDD), or get something NVMe based, which will be really, really fast, but more expensive than the SATA based SSD.

So, to answer your question, we need to know what your priorities are.

 

[jlabenberg]

Sorry, I was confusing your thread with a very similar one that I recently replied to.

That said, this info pretty much still applies to a Fusion Drive or HDD:



So, to answer your question, we need to know what your priorities are.

priority is faster and more robust and lasting longer (in years) AND something that does not require me to take the screen off - thus the request for an external drive that I can use for booting

 

[Juicy Box]

priority is faster and more robust and lasting longer (in years)

While it is still kind of new, the X5 has produced some impressive speeds:

Samsung Portable SSD X5 500GB External Portable Solid State Drive with Hardware Encryption Black MU-PB500B/AM - Best Buy

Shop Samsung Portable SSD X5 500GB External Portable Solid State Drive with Hardware Encryption Black products at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

I am considering getting one myself. They are really expensive, but really fast:

The X5’s read/write speeds of 2,800/2,300 MB/s* are 5.2x/4.5x faster than a Portable SSD with SATA interface and 25.5x/20.9x faster than an external HDD**. The X5 lets you transfer a 20GB 4K UHD video from your PC to the X5 in just 12 seconds.

more robust and lasting longer

I personally have never had a SSD fail, but they do fail. If you check out the reviews for the X5, it seems like most failures happen quickly.

There are complaints about it getting hot though. Maybe that might be an issue for the long term?

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"unsure of how to install operating system on a new SSD and then have my iMac boot from it. Is this something that I can do by myself?"

This is "child's play" on a Mac.
Yes, literally, child's play.

What to do:
PRINT THIS POST OUT RIGHT NOW AND KEEP IT AS YOU WORK.

Buy an external USB3 SSD. You can either buy one pre-assembled and "ready-to-go" (such as the Samsung "t5"), or buy a "bare SSD" and an enclosure and "do it yourself" (also child's play).
The t5 might be a good choice.

Once you have the SSD, connect it to a USB port. It should mount on the desktop, but IT'S NOT READY YET.

For Mojave, you will want APFS, so do this next.
Open Disk Utility.
Go to the "View" menu and choose "show all devices"
Now you should see (on the left) the external SSD as well as your internal drive.

Click on the SSD on the left to select it.
Now click the "erase" button.
Choose "APFS", GUID partition format.
Now erase it -- it will take only a few seconds.

The drive should now re-appear on the desktop, ready for software.

What to do next:
Go to this link and download the latest version of CarbonCopyCloner:

Download CCC - Bombich Software

www.bombich.com

CCC is FREE to download and use for 30 days -- this costs you NOTHING.

Open CCC and accept all the defaults for now.
In the left box (in CCC's window), put your "source volume" (the INTERNAL drive)
In the middle box, put your destination volume (the external SSD)
Leave the right box alone -- you don't need it.

Click the clone button and "follow through".

CCC will now clone the contents of the internal drive to the SSD. It will take a while, so be patient.

When done, quit CCC and open System preferences.
Go to startup disk, click the lock and enter your password.
Select the external SSD to be "the new boot drive".
Close system preferences and reboot.

Do you get a good boot?
Log in and look around.
If things look good...
You're done!

 

[jlabenberg]

While it is still kind of new, the X5 has produced some impressive speeds:

Samsung Portable SSD X5 500GB External Portable Solid State Drive with Hardware Encryption Black MU-PB500B/AM - Best Buy

Shop Samsung Portable SSD X5 500GB External Portable Solid State Drive with Hardware Encryption Black products at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

I am considering getting one myself. They are really expensive, but really fast:




I personally have never had a SSD fail, but they do fail. If you check out the reviews for the X5, it seems like most failures happen quickly.

There are complaints about it getting hot though. Maybe that might be an issue for the long term?

interesting idea about the x5 - and here again I show my lack of hardware knowledge - the x5 drive using thunderbolt 3 - here are the specs of the 2 thunderbolt ports of my iMac - let's say a thunderbolt 3 device is recognized by my iMac - wouldn't the speed then be limited by the thunderbolt ports of this iMac and then spending more on a really fast SSD doesn't make sense?

Thunderbolt Bus:
Vendor Name: Apple Inc.
Device Name: iMac
UID: 0x0001000D1A340000
Route String: 0
Firmware Version: 23.10
Domain UUID: ADB345C0-C153-0253-BE05-9F2F1B085739
Port:
Status: No device connected
Link Status: 0x101
Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s x2
Receptacle: 1
Link Controller Firmware Version: 0.12.3
Port:
Status: No device connected
Link Status: 0x101
Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s x2
Receptacle: 2
Link Controller Firmware Version: 0.12.3

 

[Dave Braine]

Do you have a suggestion for a 256gb ssd?

No, I don't. Sorry.

 

[Juicy Box]

wouldn't the speed then be limited by the thunderbolt ports of this iMac and then spending more on a really fast SSD doesn't make sense?

I have a late 2017 27"iMac

The Late 2017 iMac has two Thunderbolt 3 ports.

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hi Fishrrman:

I've been thinking about having an internal SSD drive installed on my 2015 iMac, but the way you describe it, I should be getting an external SSD drive instead.

I have a 2015 mid-year iMac with a 3TB HDD. Right now, I'm using about 800 gigs, mainly for movies, music and photos (575-625 gigs). But it's getting slow...

I just bought an 8TB external HUB drive that I use to partition time machine backups to this 3 TB drive. I did this to sub out my long standing external 2 TB HDD to do an extra backup (you never know, right?)

Your instructions look dead simple, however, I have a few questions.

1. I'm thinking that I should leave the internal 3 TB drive alone and keep backing it up to Time Machine, and use it as a storage drive for the music, movies and images. From a previous post I saw of yours, I believe you recommended to have a clean OS (Catalina) on the SSD and move over any apps and system files to the new SSD so I can take advantage of the SSD speed.

Will that change how Time Machine backups work? Will I need to back up two drives (the 3 TB and the SSD drives) separately or is it a seemless operation? I certainly have the room on the hub and the other backup drive to do this. Will the 3 TB HDD be backed up?

2. How does buying music or movies work in the configuration? Will they automatically be stored on the 3 TB internal HDD, or be on the SSD and need to be moved over like any other download?

3. Granted that I have all of this external hard drive space hub and want to add a an SSD drive to the mix and all of the data is in the right places, can that SSD drive just be running the operation merely with OS system files and applications? (And do I need to delete anything on the internal 3 TB drive system-wise or app wise?)

If I need to have a an SSD to to run system files, do I need anything bigger than 500 gigs or will even a 240 gigs do the job?

4. Got any recommendations on an inexpensive external SSD drive in the 240-500 gig range?

5. Can I back up that SSD drive on my big 8 TB hub too via disk utility?

I know these questions may sound redundant and rudimentary to you, but I'm wanting to get this right, and I know you know your stuff. Any guidance from you or anyone else would be much appreciated...

Thanks!

Wayne

PS I copied the step-by-step instructions you reposted from earlier today...

OP wrote:
"unsure of how to install operating system on a new SSD and then have my iMac boot from it. Is this something that I can do by myself?"

This is "child's play" on a Mac.
Yes, literally, child's play.

Do you get a good boot?
Log in and look around.
If things look good...
You're done!

 

[Fishrrman]

I really don't have "anything to add" to the instructions I posted above.
The big decision is what size do you need?
I cannot answer this for you.
Only YOU can answer it for yourself.

Don't "overthink" this.
Just... do it.

 

[DeltaMac]

I am curious why your iMac appears to show Thunderbolt 2 ports, not Thunderbolt 3.
Also, a Late 2017, 27-inch iMacs did not come with anything less than Fusion drives.. (?)
What iMac do you actually have? You may have purchased it in 2017, but it could still be a 2015-released model. Go to Apple menu, About this Mac, click on the System Report button.
System Information app should open.
"Hardware Overview" should be on top. What is showing for "Model Identifier"?
2017 iMac will be model identifier iMac18,3 not the previous iMac17,1
(If you have that previous model (2015), then you would need a different adapter to use the X5, and you won't get anywhere near the speed that drive is capable of.)

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hi Fissherman: One simple question. Is it prudent to back up the SSD via the hub through disk utility too?

 

[Fishrrman]

"One simple question. Is it prudent to back up the SSD via the hub through disk utility too?"

The ONLY apps I use and recommend to others for backups are CarbonCopyCloner and SuperDuper. That's it...

 

[jlabenberg]

I am curious why your iMac appears to show Thunderbolt 2 ports, not Thunderbolt 3.
Also, a Late 2017, 27-inch iMacs did not come with anything less than Fusion drives.. (?)
What iMac do you actually have? You may have purchased it in 2017, but it could still be a 2015-released model. Go to Apple menu, About this Mac, click on the System Report button.
System Information app should open.
"Hardware Overview" should be on top. What is showing for "Model Identifier"?
2017 iMac will be model identifier iMac18,3 not the previous iMac17,1
(If you have that previous model (2015), then you would need a different adapter to use the X5, and you won't get anywhere near the speed that drive is capable of.)

My total bad...and bad typing skills...it’s a late 2013 27“ iMac not 2017

my apologies for the confusion

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hey Fishrrman: Maybe, I wasn't clear about my question. I was merely asking if I should be backing up the external SSD that you recommend that I use as a boot drive with just applications and system files too? I understand that's the donut hole in using Time Machine with iMacs that use Fusion drives (mine doesn't have one). If that's the case, based on what you advise, I'll probably do that with a partition on my Hub.

Thanks... Wayne

"One simple question. Is it prudent to back up the SSD via the hub through disk utility too?"

The ONLY apps I use and recommend to others for backups are CarbonCopyCloner and SuperDuper. That's it...

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hi Fishrrman,

I attempted to follow your advice. Unfortunately, using the FREE version of CCC means it will take TWO DAYS to clone the contents of my internal drive — which includes 500 gigs of movies — to my external SSD using your way. I'm assuming you use the paid version of CC which goes a lot faster, right? Is there a faster way to do this?

Just let me know...

Thanks!

Wayne

"One simple question. Is it prudent to back up the SSD via the hub through disk utility too?"

The ONLY apps I use and recommend to others for backups are CarbonCopyCloner and SuperDuper. That's it...

 

[Fishrrman]

"I attempted to follow your advice. Unfortunately, using the FREE version of CCC means it will take TWO DAYS to clone the contents of my internal drive — which includes 500 gigs of movies — to my external SSD using your way. I'm assuming you use the paid version of CC which goes a lot faster, right? Is there a faster way to do this?"

There's NO difference in the "functionality" or speed between the "demo version" of CCC and the "paid version".
They are the same.

500 gigs is... well... 500 gigs.

Do you have your backup drive connected DIRECTLY to the Mac?
Don't use a hub -- connect it directly.
Are all the components (drive, cable, enclosure) USB3...?
The actual "speed of the copying" depends on your hardware.

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hi Fishrrman,


To answer your questions first...


1. Do you have your backup drive connected DIRECTLY to the Mac? Yes!


2. Don't use a hub -- connect it directly. Didn't do that.


3. Are all the components (drive, cable, enclosure) USB3...? The Sandisk extreme external SSD drive has a USB-C connector, but also includes a UBC-C attachment I hooked up to the back of the drive and onto my USB-C connection on the back of my 2015 iMac.


I followed your steps, except forgot to designate the drive as APFS, which may explain why ithe copying probably went really slow the first time. So, I cleaned off the drive with disk utility and started over.


About 135 minutes, the copying was going fine, until it stopped. Tried to restart the process multiple times, but nothing happened. I thought cleaning the drive once more and starting from scratch would do the trick, but disk utility froze in the erasing processing. So, I force quit out of disk utility.

Also, I noticed that CCC was now occupying the spot that Time Machine had in doing my ongoing backups. So, I decided using CCC wasn't worth it and chose to uninstall it. But I couldn't even do that because it was looking for snapshots on the external drive and the uninstall CCC button was greyed out. It was only after I unmounted the external drive, that I was able to uninstall CCC for good.

Again, the only I didn't do right initially was format the draft as APFS. Once I did that, the drive and process was working fine until it stopped and wouldn't restart.

For me, my iMac is my main work computer and I don't want to kill it in the process of adding a boot drive. I would set up a simple boot drive, except I have lots of media that needs to be backed up safely too, yet I don't see any good way to do this that doesn't involve buying a 2 TB SSD drive and that's not in my budget for now. (Just to be clear, a 1TB drive would be just fine as all of my files amount to about 800 gigs, but you always have to think about future scalability and more room.)

I'm not sure if you have any suggestions to help me that don't involve using CCC, but if you or anyone else does, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Wayne

 

[Wayne Beamer]

Hi Fish,

I just received a personal reply from Mike Bombich about my problem and, as I thought, it's a multi-factoral one that goes way beyond your simple instructions.

1. It's the APFS file structure not working as well with SATA rotational drives.

2. Some of my fonts, based on his review of my logs, were corrupted, and how would I know that without it stopping.

3. In his opinion, the device I'm using for a bootable drive — a Sandisk extreme portable SSD — wasn't really workable with the Catalina OS.

All of these things make sense to me, which is why I asked for more details in the first place, but Mike was really the best equipped to address them.

So, I'm taking the drive back and limping along until I can get that next iMac, or may explore having a more experienced tech install an internal SSD.

Thanks for your help,

Wayne

"I attempted to follow your advice. Unfortunately, using the FREE version of CCC means it will take TWO DAYS to clone the contents of my internal drive — which includes 500 gigs of movies — to my external SSD using your way. I'm assuming you use the paid version of CC which goes a lot faster, right? Is there a faster way to do this?"

There's NO difference in the "functionality" or speed between the "demo version" of CCC and the "paid version".
They are the same.

500 gigs is... well... 500 gigs.

Do you have your backup drive connected DIRECTLY to the Mac?
Don't use a hub -- connect it directly.
Are all the components (drive, cable, enclosure) USB3...?
The actual "speed of the copying" depends on your hardware.