Installing OS X without using a CD

[casperes1996]

Hey, guys!

I recently bought a new (second-hand new of course) iBook G3 (700Mhz late 2002). It's in fairly decent condition hardware wise, but the previous owner, wanting to remove personal data, but not knowing how to properly, has basically destroyed the OS. She deleted loads of things that should be practically impossible to delete, including Terminal and other utilities.

Regardless of all this, I wanted to install a new copy of OS X anyway. The computer didn't come with the Panther CDs, but I have old cdr images of Panther. I don't have any CDs to burn them on though, and wondered if there are any other solution? I tried burning some DVDs but the built in drive is CD-ROM and my external BluRay/DVD reader/burner is USB, which it doesn't seem like the iBook can handle (not even by manually checking for devices in OpenFirmware).

Is there any way I can reinstall OS X without having a blank CD to burn to or a FireWire drive?

 

[Intell]

Put it into Target Disk Mode, connect it to another (older) Mac, reformat its internal drive (install the OS 9 drivers if you want to someday boot OS 9 on it), make two partitions. One partition should be around 6GB and at the "bottom" of the drive in Disk Utility. Clone the OS X install disc onto that, eject the iBook from the other Mac, and boot to the cloned installation OS.

 

[AL1630]

That's how I got Leopard onto my iBook. Works just as easily as a CD.

 

[z970]

You could also probably try restoring the image to a USB drive, then try booting from that on your iBook via the boot menu. I believe USB 1.1 machines are said to be able to boot from USB that way.

 

[AphoticD]

You could also probably try restoring the image to a USB drive, then try booting from that on your iBook via the boot menu. I believe USB 1.1 machines are said to be able to boot from USB that way.

I can confirm USB installation works fine. This is how I installed the Tiger retail DVD onto my CD-ROM limited iBook G3s. I used an old 8GB USB 2.0
rated thumb drive restored with the Tiger iso via Disk Utility. Installation over USB 1.1 wasn’t as slow as expected. It took about 25 -30 mins.

However I didn’t think to use the multi-boot selector screen and just went straight into Open Firmware to boot.

 

[casperes1996]

I can confirm USB installation works fine. This is how I installed the Tiger retail DVD onto my CD-ROM limited iBook G3s. I used an old 8GB USB 2.0
rated thumb drive restored with the Tiger iso via Disk Utility. Installation over USB 1.1 wasn’t as slow as expected. It took about 25 -30 mins.

However I didn’t think to use the multi-boot selector screen and just went straight into Open Firmware to boot.

I'm confused. I tried booting from a USB, both via Open Firmware and the boot selector, and my USB drive doesn't show up. Now it is a USB 3.0 thumb drive, but they should be backwards compatible as far as I know.

And I don't think I have any FireWire cables lying around for Target Disk Mode. But a great suggestion. - I guess I could take out the HDD and put it in a USB caddy to accomplish the same thing

 

[AphoticD]

I'm confused. I tried booting from a USB, both via Open Firmware and the boot selector, and my USB drive doesn't show up. Now it is a USB 3.0 thumb drive, but they should be backwards compatible as far as I know.

And I don't think I have any FireWire cables lying around for Target Disk Mode. But a great suggestion. - I guess I could take out the HDD and put it in a USB caddy to accomplish the same thing

When you say it doesn’t show up in Open Firmware, do you mean you don’t see it in the device tree? ( dev / ls )

You should see a listing for something like /disk@1 on one of the usb nodes.

Edit: Also, in my encounters, some USB 3.0 thumb drives won’t boot a PowerPC Mac, even from OF. It is a bit hit and miss, so maybe it would be worth rummaging through your desk drawers to find an older stick before pulling the Mac apart to remove the HDD.

 

[weckart]

I'm confused. I tried booting from a USB, both via Open Firmware and the boot selector, and my USB drive doesn't show up. Now it is a USB 3.0 thumb drive, but they should be backwards compatible as far as I know.

You did remember to partition the USB drive as APM before restoring Panther onto it?

 

[casperes1996]

You did remember to partition the USB drive as APM before restoring Panther onto it?

...... I may have forgotten that vital step. I think it's MBR right now actually. I'll try again with it reformatted as APM. Thanks!
[doublepost=1529826089][/doublepost]

When you say it doesn’t show up in Open Firmware, do you mean you don’t see it in the device tree? ( dev / ls )

You should see a listing for something like /disk@1 on one of the usb nodes.

Edit: Also, in my encounters, some USB 3.0 thumb drives won’t boot a PowerPC Mac, even from OF. It is a bit hit and miss, so maybe it would be worth rummaging through your desk drawers to find an older stick before pulling the Mac apart to remove the HDD.

As noted above, it may just be that the partition table was the issue, however, what I meant was that when I ran devalias, no UD showed up, which I believe is the name of USB disks in the device alias tree. I didn't look at at the full device tree, only the alias list.

Thanks for the advice
[doublepost=1529826269][/doublepost]One more thing;

Panther came on 3 CDs. If I can get it to boot from the USB, should I put each install CD on a separate partition of the thumb drive? Will that work?

 

[weckart]

]One more thing;

Panther came on 3 CDs. If I can get it to boot from the USB, should I put each install CD on a separate partition of the thumb drive? Will that work?

Only the first one is bootable, so, yes. However, the third disc is mostly printer drivers, which you shouldn't ever need unless you really need to run an ancient printer. You might get away with one disc if you deselect most of the options, like additional applications. To speed things up, I would just copy across the files from the second disc onto the next volume on your USB drive.

 

[casperes1996]

Only the first one is bootable, so, yes. However, the third disc is mostly printer drivers, which you shouldn't ever need unless you really need to run an ancient printer. You might get away with one disc if you deselect most of the options, like additional applications. To speed things up, I would just copy across the files from the second disc onto the next volume on your USB drive.

Couldn't get it to boot anyway. Formatted with APM, three volumes each a dd of the img of the Panther CDs. When I did a dev / ls in OF no USB Disk was anywhere on the listing.

 

[AphoticD]

Are the partitions mounting normally when plugged into a working Mac? Reason I ask is it might be preferred to use Disk Utility to “Restore”’ the Mac OS X installation discs (.iso, .dmg, etc) onto the USB drive partitions instead of using dd.

 

[weckart]

Couldn't get it to boot anyway. Formatted with APM, three volumes each a dd of the img of the Panther CDs. When I did a dev / ls in OF no USB Disk was anywhere on the listing.

Disk Utility is preferred. Even High Sierra works as long as you remember to partition the target USB as APM first. Just did it with Leopard via HS on a USB and the USB shows in the boot selector screen on my PB G4.

 

[casperes1996]

Are the partitions mounting normally when plugged into a working Mac? Reason I ask is it might be preferred to use Disk Utility to “Restore”’ the Mac OS X installation discs (.iso, .dmg, etc) onto the USB drive partitions instead of using dd.

When I boot the iBook into the crippled version of OS X installed on it, it shows the USB drive fine in Finder.
Since dd essentially just clones the data stream, I don't see why Disk Utility should be any better, but I'll gladly try

 

[weckart]

DU and other Mac equivalents like SuperDuper and CCC do one more thing; they send a bless command to the make the volume bootable. dd is just a block copier. If the volume to be copied is unblessed, dd won't fix it.

In most cases, it shouldn't make a difference, especially if you are dding from a -ro medium like a DVD but occasionally images get corrupted; not enough to stop them mounting but enough to make them the basis of unbootable media. Best to lock them before invoking dd or DU.

 

[casperes1996]

DU and other Mac equivalents like SuperDuper and CCC do one more thing; they send a bless command to the make the volume bootable. dd is just a block copier. If the volume to be copied is unblessed, dd won't fix it.

In most cases, it shouldn't make a difference, especially if you are dding from a -ro medium like a DVD but occasionally images get corrupted; not enough to stop them mounting but enough to make them the basis of unbootable media. Best to lock them before invoking dd or DU.

I should've mentioned that I manually ran bless as well

 

[AphoticD]

If it’s still not working when it looks like it should then I would try a different USB stick to eliminate the medium as an issue. If you can get your hands on a USB 2.0 rated drive you might find it will simply work. Open Firmware and PowerPC have their charms like this

 

[casperes1996]

If it’s still not working when it looks like it should then I would try a different USB stick to eliminate the medium as an issue. If you can get your hands on a USB 2.0 rated drive you might find it will simply work. Open Firmware and PowerPC have their charms like this

I'll see if I can find a different thumb drive. I tried a different USB 3.1 drive, and it's got a power-LED on it and it didn't even light up when it was plugged in. Keep in mind, it's a power LED, not a data LED. It might be the issue.

But I've read that all but the G5s can't boot from USB at all. Is that just incorrect or what? It's first time I'm even trying booting a PPC from a USB drive. I have another G3 (iMac) as well as a G4 iMac but never ran them off of USB - Frankly never thought it possible as per what I had read

 

[AphoticD]

From my experience, the only pre-Intel Mac that officially supported USB booting (by holding the option key) was the original clamshell iBook due to it’s lack of FireWire. I imagine there were others, but for the most part, PowerPC Macs can typically only boot from USB via the Open Firmware command line.

Plug it in, power on, jump into OF, then look at the usb nodes in ‘dev / ls’ and you should be able to see the drive.

There are some useful tips on USB/OF booting here.

 

[weckart]

But I've read that all but the G5s can't boot from USB at all. Is that just incorrect or what? It's first time I'm even trying booting a PPC from a USB drive. I have another G3 (iMac) as well as a G4 iMac but never ran them off of USB - Frankly never thought it possible as per what I had read

I have just installed Leopard on the first gen 17" PB G4. The (slow) USB 2.0 stick was prepped using Disk Utility on High Sierra. Not only did it work but the USB drive showed up in the boot selecter screen.

As the PB only has USB 1.1 and the drive was a crappy plastic Sandisk Cruzer installation took well over an hour. But it worked without a hitch.

G3s are usually more accommodating to booting from USB. It seemed to become more of an issue with G4s, where you usually had to dabble with Open Firmware. Obviously not in my case.

 

[AphoticD]

I have just installed Leopard on the first gen 17" PB G4. The (slow) USB 2.0 stick was prepped using Disk Utility on High Sierra. Not only did it work but the USB drive showed up in the boot selecter screen.

As the PB only has USB 1.1 and the drive was a crappy plastic Sandisk Cruzer installation took well over an hour. But it worked without a hitch.

G3s are usually more accommodating to booting from USB. It seemed to become more of an issue with G4s, where you usually had to dabble with Open Firmware. Obviously not in my case.

Good confirmation. I didn't realize the first gen 12" and 17" PBG4's were running 12mbit USB. Maybe as @z970mp pointed out, the USB 1.1 Macs can natively boot from USB via the multi-boot selector screen.

I think about an hour would be pushing maximum throughput on USB 1.1 regardless of the drive. When I did my Tiger installations in half an hour, I unchecked everything but the base install, which totaled around 2GB.

Last time I went looking for a USB stick to buy, I specifically hunted through the dusty sales bin looking for an old(er) USB 2.0 drive instead of the USB 3.x rated ones because I knew I would be using it with the PowerPC Macs.

 

[weckart]

I think about an hour would be pushing maximum throughput on USB 1.1 regardless of the drive. When I did my Tiger installations in half an hour, I unchecked everything but the base install, which totaled around 2GB.

Yes. I think I sort of set my expectations according to your experience but then again, Leopard is a lot more bloated, even after deselecting printer drivers, languages etc. Still, not everything works over USB. I have an emergency CD from yore with utilities for disk management and repair etc. that has Leopard as a base OS from which the utilities work. While the USB from the imaged CD will show up on the same PB boot selector screen, booting stalls after messing about with AirPort, whereas the CD sails through.

 

[casperes1996]

So as you all know if you've read along, I used dd to copy over my Panther IMG to a USB drive. I tried with Disk Utility for my next attempt, but Disk Utility gives a fancy error:
Could not get the list of volumes from the disk image. An unexpected error occurred. (OSStatus error -123.)

Now I really don't get this, since if I open up the img, disk utility can indeed get a list of Volumes from it.

 

[AphoticD]

So as you all know if you've read along, I used dd to copy over my Panther IMG to a USB drive. I tried with Disk Utility for my next attempt, but Disk Utility gives a fancy error:
Could not get the list of volumes from the disk image. An unexpected error occurred. (OSStatus error -123.)

Now I really don't get this, since if I open up the img, disk utility can indeed get a list of Volumes from it.

Try mounting the disk image, then using the mounted volume as the source of the restore process instead of using the image file directly. Like this;

 

[weckart]

Just tried my Leopard USB drive on my iBook 14" 700MHz G3 and it showed up in the boot selector screen as you can see



If, after AphoticD's suggestion it still doesn't work my guess would be that either there is something up with your iBook or, more likely, the image you used to create your installation media from. Try again with a fresh image.

Also, if your image is a .dmg and not a .cdr as in AphoticD's walkthrough, make sure you lock it before mounting.