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iPad2 plays 1080p- Is this the future for ATV?
- Thread starter diminiko
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The information is confusing...
The video playback specs still only list 720p.
I'm guessing it's like the AppleTV, it can output a 1080p signal, but it really just upsamples 720p content. Although from what I see on Apple's site, even the HDMI output just outputs exactly what is on the iPad's screen, so it's really just 1024x768 upsampled and pillarboxed.
The video playback specs still only list 720p.
I'm guessing it's like the AppleTV, it can output a 1080p signal, but it really just upsamples 720p content. Although from what I see on Apple's site, even the HDMI output just outputs exactly what is on the iPad's screen, so it's really just 1024x768 upsampled and pillarboxed.
Maybe. Perhaps they'll upgrade the hardware at the iPod event in August\September. I personally hope that a firmware update 'enables' 1080p on the existing hardware, so that I won't have to buy a new box. 
Sounds like the natural way forward, the question is if they will let it output 1080p... Also, do you think the apple tv will be updated in september at the ipod event?
"Video mirroring and video out support: Up to 1080p with Apple Digital AV Adapter or Apple VGA Adapter (cables sold separately)"
Time will tell if they are true to their word!
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Actually, I was most encouraged by that little nugget: Steve actually referencing "1080p" verbally. Since he didn't do that with the 
TV hardware rollout, I'm somewhat confident in thinking that the new hardware guts in this thing are actually capable of 1080p output via that HDMI link (I'm not confident the current one can output better than 720p). I'm betting this will be proven out when tested.
If so, these same guts should make their way into the next genTV, hopefully not 3 more years from now. Or maybe a "pro" model at $149 or so, though I'm confident they could keep things at $99 and deliver the better res (because there are lots of competing set top boxes with 1080p capabilities at well below $99).
In any event, that brief moment was the best thing I heard & saw today... as it at least implies that Apple is finally thinking about 1080p hardware in this iDevice tech, which suggests the nextTV will likely step up to that plate. All the cheerleaders (justify-whatever-Apple-chooses-no-matter-what) who have thoroughly argued how 720p max is THE only way to go can still enjoy every bit of their 720p content on 1080p hardware, while those of us wanting a bit more than 720p can get our wants fulfilled as well.
Put the "for dummies" Apple UI on 1080p hardware and that little box would really hit a lot of targets. Add anTV app store and a normal expansion port or two (maybe that new Thunderbolt) so that those interested in hardware expansion and/or local storage could get their needs met too and I'd call THAT version near perfect.
Gen 1 to Gen 2 was about 4 years. Hopefully, Gen 2 to Gen 3 will come sooner. I'd love to see this (or a pro model) in the Fall revamps of iDevices. The UI is the best I've seen, but that 720p cap has always been a weak spot IMO.
TV hardware rollout, I'm somewhat confident in thinking that the new hardware guts in this thing are actually capable of 1080p output via that HDMI link (I'm not confident the current one can output better than 720p). I'm betting this will be proven out when tested.If so, these same guts should make their way into the next gen
TV, hopefully not 3 more years from now. Or maybe a "pro" model at $149 or so, though I'm confident they could keep things at $99 and deliver the better res (because there are lots of competing set top boxes with 1080p capabilities at well below $99). In any event, that brief moment was the best thing I heard & saw today... as it at least implies that Apple is finally thinking about 1080p hardware in this iDevice tech, which suggests the next
TV will likely step up to that plate. All the cheerleaders (justify-whatever-Apple-chooses-no-matter-what) who have thoroughly argued how 720p max is THE only way to go can still enjoy every bit of their 720p content on 1080p hardware, while those of us wanting a bit more than 720p can get our wants fulfilled as well.Put the "for dummies" Apple UI on 1080p hardware and that little box would really hit a lot of targets. Add an
TV app store and a normal expansion port or two (maybe that new Thunderbolt) so that those interested in hardware expansion and/or local storage could get their needs met too and I'd call THAT version near perfect. Gen 1 to Gen 2 was about 4 years. Hopefully, Gen 2 to Gen 3 will come sooner. I'd love to see this (or a pro model) in the Fall revamps of iDevices. The UI is the best I've seen, but that 720p cap has always been a weak spot IMO.
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Actually, I was most encouraged by that little nugget: Steve actually referencing "1080p" verbally. Since he didn't do that with the
If so, these same guts should make their way into the next gen
In any event, that brief moment was the best thing I heard & saw today... as it at least implies that Apple is finally thinking about 1080p hardware in this iDevice tech, which suggests the next
Put the "for dummies" Apple UI on 1080p hardware and that little box would really hit a lot of targets. Add an
Gen 1 to Gen 2 was about 4 years. Hopefully, Gen 2 to Gen 3 will come sooner. I'd love to see this (or a pro model) in the Fall revamps of iDevices. The UI is the best I've seen, but that 720p cap has always been a weak spot IMO.
Totally agree Apple has to take 1080p seriously. I'll give them till September for ATV3 or I'll go to competition to upgrade my ATV 1. For me, it means revising my A/V environment as I am fed up waiting on decent editing and viewing of my Full HD camcorder footage. The only thing that's keeping me on hold is their simple and good-looking interface.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
ceraz, that is exactly my situation too. I have many years of 1080HD camcorder footage (precious home movies memorialized with the best camcorders I could get), which- since 2006- can be imported into Apple's iMovie at 1080, edited at 1080, rendered as a 1080 MP4 (M4V for TV), stored in Apple's iTunes, and played in iTunes just fine.
At the other end of a chain is a 1080 HDTV, one of which I've had since 2001 or so. The sole broken link in the chain is how to get 1080HD video from iTunes to the newer 1080p HDTV. Both generations ofTV have been hard capped at 720p. Hopefully, the next generation (hopefully released in 2011) will finally allow our Apple processed and Apple stored 1080HD camcorder content to finally flow to our 1080 HDTVs.
It was encouraging to hear Apple acknowledge 1080 in an iDevice platform, implying that they recognize that buyers might appreciate the option to play the maximum HD standard rather than the minimum HD standard. Nobody loses if they go this way: all the "720p is good enough" crowd can still play their 720p content to the max on 1080 hardware. This move would just finally let those of us hungry (long term) for the OPTION to play something above 720p have an Apple solution that works for us too.
TV), stored in Apple's iTunes, and played in iTunes just fine. At the other end of a chain is a 1080 HDTV, one of which I've had since 2001 or so. The sole broken link in the chain is how to get 1080HD video from iTunes to the newer 1080p HDTV. Both generations of
TV have been hard capped at 720p. Hopefully, the next generation (hopefully released in 2011) will finally allow our Apple processed and Apple stored 1080HD camcorder content to finally flow to our 1080 HDTVs. It was encouraging to hear Apple acknowledge 1080 in an iDevice platform, implying that they recognize that buyers might appreciate the option to play the maximum HD standard rather than the minimum HD standard. Nobody loses if they go this way: all the "720p is good enough" crowd can still play their 720p content to the max on 1080 hardware. This move would just finally let those of us hungry (long term) for the OPTION to play something above 720p have an Apple solution that works for us too.
1080p output from the iPad2 is needed for one simple reason ... portrait mode. Imagine how awful a 768x1024 screen would look squished down to 540x720. 810x1080 will look much better for portrait mode.
Personally, I think using the HDMI adapter to serve up videos is the not the optimal solution. The reason being the iPad is a 4:3 device. Widescreen videos would play inside a postage stamp (letter and pillar boxed at the same time).
Apple's solution for watching videos (or apps) on the TV via iPad is Airplay. This way, you'd get a full widescreen picture.
Personally, I think using the HDMI adapter to serve up videos is the not the optimal solution. The reason being the iPad is a 4:3 device. Widescreen videos would play inside a postage stamp (letter and pillar boxed at the same time).
Apple's solution for watching videos (or apps) on the TV via iPad is Airplay. This way, you'd get a full widescreen picture.
I agree, but I think there's approximately zero chance of that happening until there's much wider availability of broadband speeds sufficient to download 1080p content from iTunes (i.e. rented movies) in what consumers would see as an acceptable timeframe.
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I believe the next phase will be to go ahead and fully integrate the ATV2 into a TV itself to then take advantage of 1080p. This would eliminate a seperate box from the TV itself and have it all bundled into one product. The device is so small, it can easily be placed within the TV.
I don't want to speculate on specifics of partnerships with existing TV manufacturers or their own TV. I think this would solidify that the ATV is no longer just a hobby but has evolved into another post-PC product for Apple altogether.
I don't want to speculate on specifics of partnerships with existing TV manufacturers or their own TV. I think this would solidify that the ATV is no longer just a hobby but has evolved into another post-PC product for Apple altogether.
The ATV only outputs 720p. TVs may upscale to 1080i or 1080p, but the ATV signal is always 720p at the max.
I bet the next ATV will see this new A5 chip that can output 1080p as well as the ability to play 1080p content.
There are a lot of good reasons for the AppleTV to be 1080p capable regardless of broadband capabilities. There are loads of 1080p cameras out there (apparently including the iPad2). Why should you have to down-res your home videos because the display hardware isn't capable?
iTunes downloads should not be the deciding factor. Apple has always been big in video editing. For instance, here is a quote from Jobs at yesterday’s event: “We have a long history of video editing… we are the largest supplier of video editing software in the world…”
So, you buy the latest HD camcorder to shoot your home videos. You use your Mac, made by “the largest supplier of video editing software in the world”, to edit your footage. And then you export it to iTunes so that you can watch it on your HDTV via the AppleTV. Why do you have to down-res this video to make this work?
You actually don't have to downrez your 1080p videos for playback on the aTV. Yes, it'll only display at 720p, but the aTV will happily playback 1080p video files.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
chicken or the egg?
- We need supply to expand via proactive broadband infrastructure expansion BEFORE Apple can move forward with 1080p TV hardware. OR
- We need demand to expand to pressure those in charge of broadband infrastructure to expand the pipes.
I appreciate the view that
TV is solely tied to iTunes store rentals, but our own posts are about HD camcorder video, which needs no broadband pipes (or availability of iTunes rental content at all). That gives those of us that care about output greater than 720p a valid reason to buy one... even if we have no Internet connection at all. Apple can never control the broadband infrastructure pace. And who gets to decide when enough (expansion) is enough? Besides, Apple's market is NOT just the U.S. Other markets have relatively massive pipes already.
If the consumers broadband is too slow, they can still choose the same 720p version in the store now. And if their broadband is too slow for 720p, they can choose the SD version in the store now.
Apple just embraced Thunderbolt (a bit of hardware) and nobody has a single thing they can do with it. You lead with the hardware and let the rest catch up. "As is" BD and boxes that can stream from 1080p sources like Vudu.com are in the hardware lead when it comes to quality >720p, so Apple should go toe to toe with the "bag of hurt" where it matters most: picture quality & sound.
If you have to wait until all the other pieces are in place first, THAT
TV doesn't arrive until way, way out there. Instead, get the hardware in lots of homes, and the other players will be motivated to "catch up". Wait for them to proactively do their parts, and nothing moves forward in this category.Lastly, if you think it's about rentals, you probably make the argument that "until there is 1080p content in the iTunes store". Again, that appears to be another chicken or egg scenario on the surface. However, put 1080p hardware in homes and 720p content "as is" still plays at full 720p quality. Stick with 720p max hardware and there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for even one studio to see if 1080p content for
TV can be profitable. Plus, as more 1080p TVs flow into homes, some Studio will be increasingly tempted to try 1080p content. As soon as one goes and finds it profitable, the others will be quick to follow. Right now, NONE of them can test it even if they wanted to switch ALL of their movies & shows to 1080p TODAY. Again, Apple leads with the hardware. All this related stuff follows from Apple making the move.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Do you know this to be absolutely true? I've seen an awful lot of posts about the current
TV being able to display 720p, but it does stutter some on 1080p sources. Do you know for certain that we can render our 1080p camcorder video for TV and the current model can down convert it to smooth 720p?Do you know this to be absolutely true? I've seen an awful lot of posts about the current
Exactly. The AppleTV is not spec'ed to play 1080p video. Some people have found that it can play some 1080p, but not all. If you want to assure that your 1080p home videos can be displayed without any problems, you need to down-res to 720p.
Well, it really depends on the bit rates used in your files. I have a few 1080p music videos in the 5 to 6 Mbps range. I don't notice any stutters. Can I be certain that it's not dropping a frame here or there, no. But it's decent enough to where I can't detect it.Do you know this to be absolutely true? I've seen an awful lot of posts about the current
This is with a 11n network streaming to the aTV. I don't notice any stuttering while playing a buffered or fully loaded stream.
I would guess your camcorder files are recorded at higher bitrates than 6 Mbps. Besides, I don't think the aTV can play AVCHD files. So you'll have to convert (or at least swap containers) anyways. Might as well make them 720p and be sure they'll play fine.
I'd guess the next aTV will have 1080p support for moderately high bit rates (8 to 9 Mbps).
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
But that's the gripe. Down converting to what Apple has chosen for us has been the solution for my
TV. The pain is that I've been able to shoot at much better than 720p for many years now (at least 4+). Apple has given us tools like iMovie which can work with files >720p, and render MP4s at 1080p if we so desire. iTunes will store a 1080p file just like a 720p or SD file. It will even play back in iTunes at 1080p on my Apple computers. All the links in the Apple chain are already in place, except one.In the living room, I have a 1080p HDTV. I've had >720p-capable HDTVs since 2001. I built my own house and wired it for the future with dual runs of cat5e everywhere (I've even got dual runs of optical).
How do you flow it at 1080p on iTunes to that HDTV? That's
TVs job. But, "as is" a sacrifice has to be made. Why? Because Apple decided that 720p was good enough in the first generation one I have (from 2006) AND worse, the second generation that just came out (in 2010). I look forward to generation 3, hopefully with the hardware to meet the wants of those of us that seek a bit more than 720p max. The cheerleaders lose nothing with 1080p hardware, as their 720p content will still play to it's maximum potential on 1080p hardware. Their poor bandwidth can still download the 720p rentals exactly as as fast as it does now. Their hard drive storage can store the 720p options in exactly the same space as it takes now. If they can't see the difference, they can still not see the difference on a 1080p version. If the Studios don't offer 1080p content for rent in the iTunes store, us quality fools can still choose the 720p rental, exactly as we can now. The "chart" will still be the "chart", and us fools will just have hardware overkill (much like we generally do in just about every other computing product from Apple- for example, I'm sure I don't need this Quad Core i7 iMac with 12GB RAM to type this message right now; my old powerbook G4 could do it just as well: why did Apple step forward with hardware overkill on these newer Macs when "most people" can't fully exploit it now?)
Ok, I'm gonna lay out the obvious here for the sake of being concise.
The AppleTV 2 has A4 chip
The iPad 1 has A4 chip
The iPad 2 has A5 chip
The AppleTV can only output at 720p
The hdmi adaptor works with iPad 1 but only at 720p
The hdmi adator works for iPad 2 at 1080p
Therefore, AppleTV 3 will have A5 chip and be able to output at 1080p
It will be so powerful in fact I think some major improvements will come.
In the photo booth and iMovie apps the power of A5 really shined with all the simultaneous video playing and editing being done, and this could translate well to AppleTV 3 for many things..
The AppleTV 2 has A4 chip
The iPad 1 has A4 chip
The iPad 2 has A5 chip
The AppleTV can only output at 720p
The hdmi adaptor works with iPad 1 but only at 720p
The hdmi adator works for iPad 2 at 1080p
Therefore, AppleTV 3 will have A5 chip and be able to output at 1080p
It will be so powerful in fact I think some major improvements will come.
In the photo booth and iMovie apps the power of A5 really shined with all the simultaneous video playing and editing being done, and this could translate well to AppleTV 3 for many things..
Oh great. Now I'm going to have to go back and re-rip my entire BD collection. Thanks Steve!
Don't forget photo slideshows
Also, you don't even need a 1080p camcorder to justify 1080p. Just making a slide show from photos would require 1080p for best reproduction.
But it shouldn't be an issue - I remember reading not too long ago (engadget?) that the A5 can pump out 1080p video "like running water". Of course, that was just a rumor article.
I just hope the A5 comes to the ATV this September, along with the ability to use (sync to and read from) AN EXTERNAL or NAS HD!
Dan
Also, you don't even need a 1080p camcorder to justify 1080p. Just making a slide show from photos would require 1080p for best reproduction.
But it shouldn't be an issue - I remember reading not too long ago (engadget?) that the A5 can pump out 1080p video "like running water". Of course, that was just a rumor article.
I just hope the A5 comes to the ATV this September, along with the ability to use (sync to and read from) AN EXTERNAL or NAS HD!
Dan
I was going to post that an A5-update to the entire iOS range would happen this year as the supply of A4 would dry up, but then I remembered than Apple keeps last year's iPhone around as the budget model so there would be a supply of A4 chips to keep the ATV2 around for another 18 months. I hope I'm wrong and we get an A5 ATV3 this year!
That would make me upgrade because, unlike ATV1 to ATV2, it's an upgrade not a revenue stream change..