iPhone 5 Carrier Question

[the1337n00b]

Hey all, I'm brand new here and I've got a quick question.

I'm on Verizon with an iPhone 4S. I plan on getting the iPhone 5 through a friend's upgrade on AT&T. I want to pre order the phone and have it sent to me, from AT&T, and activate it on verizon since I assume it's a world phone and any SIM card should work with it, correct?

Or am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[Geckotek]

Last time I checked, Verizon won't activate non-Verizon originated phones on their network. The MEID has to already be in their database.

 

[madsci954]

Won't work, Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM, one carrier's phone won't work on the other.

 

[Geckotek]

Won't work, Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM, one carrier's phone won't work on the other.

That's actually not the issue since the iPhone now supports both GSM and CDMA from a single chip.

 

[the1337n00b]

Won't work, Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM, one carrier's phone won't work on the other.

But this will be 4G, which isn't CDMA, it's through a SIM, right?

 

[willmtaylor]

Won't work, Verizon is CDMA and ATT is GSM, one carrier's phone won't work on the other.

After activated/associated with that network, you are correct. But straight from the factory/box, you are incorrect.

 

[the1337n00b]

That's actually not the issue since the iPhone now supports both GSM and CDMA from a single chip.

That's what I was thinking. So the problem is getting Verizon to accept it on their network through an ID?

 

[Geckotek]

But this will be 4G, which isn't CDMA, it's through a SIM, right?

In theory it would work if you unlocked it. But the issue, as I pointed out earlier, is that Verizon won't activate a phone that isn't in their database.

----------

That's what I was thinking. So the problem is getting Verizon to accept it on their network through an ID?

The problem is getting Verizon to add it to their database.

 

[the1337n00b]

In theory it would work if you unlocked it. But the issue, as I pointed out earlier, is that Verizon won't activate a phone that isn't in their database.

----------



The problem is getting Verizon to add it to their database.

Thank you for your help. I do appreciate it.
How does Verizon know it isn't in their database when the phone, as far as they're concerned, COULD be straight from the Apple store bought at retail cost?

 

[Geckotek]

Thank you for your help. I do appreciate it.
How does Verizon know it isn't in their database when the phone, as far as they're concerned, COULD be straight from the Apple store bought at retail cost?

The phones sold by Verizon, Apple, or any retail store are already designated to work on Verizon's network and have been entered into Verizon's database. When you walk into the Apple store, they will ask you if you want a Verizon, Sprint, or AT&T iPhone. They will have separate stock of each. Each already has a SIM in the box dedicated to that carrier as well.

Unless things have drastically changed this year. We can only hope (but I seriously doubt).

 

[nostresshere]

When Apple sells a phone for less than full price (upgrade), they know which carrier it is for, and they get the rest of the money from the carrier. Your phone will cost Verizon a couple hundred bucks. They are NOT going to let you go over to ATT with it.

They might seem stupid sometimes, but they are not that stupid.


Simple business.

And, by the way, does your friend know he can not get an upgrade for 2 years on his line? If he cancels his service, he will owe a early term fee?

 

[Geckotek]

When Apple sells a phone for less than full price (upgrade), they know which carrier it is for, and they get the rest of the money from the carrier. Your phone will cost Verizon a couple hundred bucks. They are NOT going to let you go over to ATT with it.

Kind of.....not really. You are talking about why AT&T wouldn't allow it to be unlocked, but he could use an unlocking service to get around this.

The bigger issue that is VERY difficult to get around is getting Verizon to allow the phone on their network.

 

[mattopotamus]

it is possible that you could get the phone and pay an unlocked website to unlock the phone. I think the people who run these sites have access to the data bases and change something.

 

[eastercat]

Technically, there's not a separate stock. If they needed to, the employees can take a "locked" phone and make it an unlocked one and presumably vice versa. Because the iphone has all the radios, it can be assigned to any carrier at time of checkout.
For the sake of simplification for the OP's sake, CDMA is proprietary and exclusionary. You will not be able to convince verizon to add any gsm phone. Even getting a sprint phone accepted would be impossible. You're going to have to pay full price if you want a new phone.

The phones sold by Verizon, Apple, or any retail store are already designated to work on Verizon's network and have been entered into Verizon's database. When you walk into the Apple store, they will ask you if you want a Verizon, Sprint, or AT&T iPhone. They will have separate stock of each. Each already has a SIM in the box dedicated to that carrier as well.

Unless things have drastically changed this year. We can only hope (but I seriously doubt).

it is possible that you could get the phone and pay an unlocked website to unlock the phone. I think the people who run these sites have access to the data bases and change something.

Unlocking only works for gsm carriers. CDMA carriers are crappy, proprietary POSs.

 

[mattopotamus]

Technically, there's not a separate stock. If they needed to, the employees can take a "locked" phone and make it an unlocked one and presumably vice versa.
For the sake of simplification for the OP's sake, CDMA is proprietary and exclusionary. You will not be able to convince verizon to add your gsm phone. Even getting a sprint phone accepted would be impossible. You're going to have to pay full price if you want a new phone.



Unlocking only works for gsm carriers. CDMA is a crappy, proprietary POS.

That sucks...so basically with the new iphone, you could use any phone on att/t-mobile since they are GSM providers and the phone will have capabilities of both CDMA and GSM? Would that be correct, or at least appears to be? I know sometimes setting the internet settings on CDMA/GSM combo phones like blackberries are a pain in the ass if you use them on att

 

[Geckotek]

CDMA is a crappy, proprietary POS.

Please don't start that crap. A) it's not proprietary and B) for the longest time it was FAR better than GSM.

CDMA is proprietary and exclusionary.

These phones are also LTE so CDMA really has little to do with it (although they will use CDMA, CDMA is NOT the limitation...it's the carrier).

Unlocking only works for gsm carriers.

Unlocking the LTE/GSM side does work for the CDMA carriers as well.

And yes, they are separate stock.

You will not be able to convince verizon to add your gsm phone

And NO, it is not a GSM phone. All the phones support GSM/CDMA/LTE. The difference will be what SIM is located inside and what carrier database the IMEI/MEID has been added to.

 

[eastercat]

I don't understand your question.
Unlocked iphones only work with gsm, because the cdma carriers forced apple to do this. You have to use a carrier specific phone for the cdma carriers, because they don't accept phones from other cdma carriers. This is why I avoid cdma like halitosis.

That sucks...so basically with the new iphone, you could use any phone on att/t-mobile since they are GSM providers and the phone will have capabilities of both CDMA and GSM? Would that be correct, or at least appears to be? I know sometimes setting the internet settings on CDMA/GSM combo phones like blackberries are a pain in the ass if you use them on att

 

[Geckotek]

That sucks...so basically with the new iphone, you could use any phone on att/t-mobile since they are GSM providers and the phone will have capabilities of both CDMA and GSM? Would that be correct, or at least appears to be? I know sometimes setting the internet settings on CDMA/GSM combo phones like blackberries are a pain in the ass if you use them on att

Just ignore Eastercat's rant. The new iPhone does support CDMA/GSM/LTE. All three. So calling a phone you get from AT&T a GSM phone is incorrect.

----------

I don't understand your question.
Unlocked iphones only work with gsm, because the cdma carriers forced apple to do this. You have to use a carrier specific phone for the cdma carriers, because they don't accept phones from other cdma carriers. This is why I avoid cdma like halitosis.

Now this part is true. You don't understand his question because your previous rant called the iPhone a "GSM phone".

 

[mattopotamus]

ok...ill try to make it a little clearer. If you were to buy a verizon iphone, now you could technically use it on AT&T since the new phones support CDMA and GSM; However, you could not do the reverse using the ATT phone on verizon since verizon would not allow it. ATT allows you to bring your own phone, so you could do that. In the past you could not use a verizon iphone on ATT b.c it was CDMA only, but not that is it both you could. Does that make better sense?

basically an iphone no matter what carrier it originated from could work with ATT, that is not the case for verizon though even it is unlocked b.c verizon would not allow it....right?

 

[Geckotek]

^^yes^^

 

[eastercat]

CDMA is NOT the limitation...it's the carrier).

Same difference. As long as the carriers continue to be exclusionary and proprietary, then cdma is just as useless. It's no different than putting a speed limiter on a ferrari and making it as fast as a honda accord.

You don't understand his question because your previous rant called the iPhone a "GSM phone".

I was talking about the idiotic policy of cdma carriers not accepting any gsm phone (iphone or other), but I clarified my post to clear up any misunderstandings.

ok...ill try to make it a little clearer. If you were to buy a verizon iphone, now you could technically use it on AT&T since the new phones support CDMA and GSM; However, you could not do the reverse using the ATT phone on verizon since verizon would not allow it. ATT allows you to bring your own phone, so you could do that. In the past you could not use a verizon iphone on ATT b.c it was CDMA only, but not that is it both you could. Does that make better sense?

basically an iphone no matter what carrier it originated from could work with ATT, that is not the case for verizon though even it is unlocked b.c verizon would not allow it....right?

Technically correct. The cdma carriers forced apple to lock the gsm side. The cdma carriers will do international unlocks, but you have to hack to get a US unlock.

 

[madsci954]

The new iPhone does support CDMA/GSM/LTE. All three.

So what you're saying is if I bought the new iPhone factory unlocked, I could go with any of the big 3 carriers (ATT, Verizon, Sprint), whereas with the factory unlocked 4S, I'm only limited to ATT?

This carrier-locked stuff confuses the heck out of me.

 

[Geckotek]

Same difference. As long as the carriers continue to be exclusionary and proprietary, then cdma is just as useless. It's no different than putting a speed limiter on a ferrari and making it as fast as a honda accord.

Not the same difference. The issue is Verizon and has NOTHING to do with CDMA. This practice could easily continue long after CDMA is dead and gone. It's a stupid practice Sprint and Verizon did to each other. It's their version of SIM locking.

And the GSM carriers are guilty as well. Don't you realize SIM locking is the same thing but performed in a different way? Just for some reason Sprint and Verizon took it a step further, claiming some crap about rogue phones taking down their network. Either way, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, ESN Databases, SIM locking, it's all anti-competetive behaviour.

I was talking about the idiotic policy of cdma carriers not accepting any gsm phone (iphone or other), but I clarified my post to clear up any misunderstandings.

I think you mean "CDMA carriers not accepting any phone (iPhone or other)". The "GSM" portion makes that sentence confusing again.

Technically correct. The cdma carriers forced apple to lock the gsm side. The cdma carriers will do international unlocks, but you have to hack to get a US unlock.

No hack needed, it's the same process of submitting the IMEI to Apple. There are sellers out there selling it now.

So what you're saying is if I bought the new iPhone factory unlocked, I could go with any of the big 3 carriers (ATT, Verizon, Sprint), whereas with the factory unlocked 4S, I'm only limited to ATT?

This carrier-locked stuff confuses the heck out of me.

I don't know for a fact that Verizon or Sprint would accept a factory unlocked iPhone. In fact, I doubt they would.

 

[the1337n00b]

thanks for all the help and discussion.
So basically you're saying I CANNOT buy an AT&T iPhone 5 and activate it on Verizon because

1. It would be "locked" to AT&T and unable to accept a Verizon 4G SIM
2. Verizon would not accept it because it wouldn't be in their database as THEIR phone.

Right so far?

So my only options would be to buy an unlocked phone at full price, or buy a Verizon iPhone 5 to avoid the hassle.

Yesyes?

 

[eastercat]

And the GSM carriers are guilty as well. Don't you realize SIM locking is the same thing but performed in a different way?

Not true. If I have an unlocked phone, I can insert the sim card and can use any gsm service. I can't do this with the cdma carriers.

So what you're saying is if I bought the new iPhone factory unlocked, I could go with any of the big 3 carriers (ATT, Verizon, Sprint), whereas with the factory unlocked 4S, I'm only limited to ATT?

This carrier-locked stuff confuses the heck out of me.

Factory unlocked phones will work with any gsm carrier--at&t, t-mobile, orange, rogers, vodaphone etc. CDMA carriers won't take any phone that isn't theirs--unlocked or not; this is why they suck.