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iPhone SE (2016) iPhone SE (2nd Gen) and Night Mode.
- Thread starter Tom G.
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That is somewhat comforting...I get that Apple can't throw everything in the "SE" model but Night Mode would have easily made me upgrade over my iPhone 8 (not just Night Mode, but with everything else, it would have been a no-brainer).
Third-party night modes are garbage unfortunately.
We’ll see in the reviews eventually, but it looks like not only the Night mode, but also Deep Fusion, second gen Smart HDR and the whole of 11’s image processing is missing on this phone. Which means you’re basically getting XR camera. Which is a bummer considering how much of a leap the 11 was universally recognized to be.
The Apple’s marketing team tries to conceal it with hyping up Portrait mode capabilities but essentially they’re releasing a camera outdated on arrival.
It’s not what the original SE used to be. Like I said, a bummer- totally unexpected for me.
It has the main 12MP Wide Camera setup from the 11 and 11 Pro according to Rene Ritchie, who is probably able to find out exact specs, however it's missing night mode and deep fusion because it only has 1 camera. That's not to say Apple can't or don't bring a similar feature like night mode to this device in a future update. NeuralCam isn't a terrible app - it's not as good as Apple's own software, but it is getting better with each update.
It has the Next-Generation Smart HDR same as the 11 as well as more Portrait modes than the XR. Plus it will be able to produce better photos than the XR due to the A13 chip and improved computational photography.
It's reasons like this I wish Apple would allow developers to make a 'trial' version. Right now, I want to try NeuralCam. However, I don't want to spend $5 and have it be garbage; that's not fair to me.
If I could for example, have 12-hour trial or 3-photo trial, then I make my decision to see if it's worth $5.
Is $5 a lot of money to me? No. But I'm also not willing to throw $5 away for a product that may not work.
Edit:
On the Mac, I tried out Final Cut Pro X on a trial from Apple. Loved it and bought it. Same with Pixelmator years ago. Also, I saved money by trying other apps that didn't work as I expected.
Thanks for the info. I suggest we wait for reviews to know exactly what this “hybrid” camera is capable of. Although if it turns out that it has the same sensor as 11 with second gen smart hdr that would mean they actually deliberately chose to software disable Night Mode. It would be such a massive dick move.
The internet (Reddit in particular) doesn’t seem to care though, their “Best Single Camera in an iPhone” tagline seems to do the trick so far. So might be a smart business decision on Apple’s part.
Those apps still rely on good hardware to begin with to produce images with little noise and artifacts.
Apple only enables Night Mode with lenses with 100% Focus Pixels.
The SE2 likely comes with the same lens as 8/XR. It's unlikely for Apple to put in an expensive sensor and then leave out Night Mode. This is a new product that Apple will sell millions of units over the next 4 years. It's unlikely there's untapped hardware that Apple is paying for but not advertising.
They are far from perfect, but I've taken a few photos on my first-gen SE with them that couldn't have been taken with the factory camera app. 🤷♂️
Night mode (Pixel Focus) requires two lenses doesn’t it? Could easily be the 11 main lens on the new SE. Or just disabled by Apple so the 11 and Pro still had exclusive features.
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Night Mode requires a single lens. On iPhone 11, there is only one good lens - the regular wide angle lens with 100% Focus Pixels. The ultra-wide sensor needs good lighting and can't help the main lens.
It's unlikely the SE2 has the 11 sensor. That would be like, "let's put in 4GB RAM but limit it to 3GB."
From Apple themselves... this to me, reads as an 11 main lens. 
Regardless it’s a better Camera than the XR.
Regardless it’s a better Camera than the XR.
From Apple themselves... this to me, reads as an 11 main lens.
Which part are you referring to?
The iPhone 8 and XR also have 12MP and f/1.8 aperture. The rest of the stuff, Portrait mode, Portrait Lightning, and Depth Control are all software.
iPhone 11 has a "new Wide sensor with 100 percent Focus Pixels." That's not mentioned at all in the SE2 press release.
Absolutely.
The key here is that Apple says the new SE has the "best single-camera system ever in an iPhone", and the software processing is a significant part of that. The wording doesn't confirm or deny that the camera optics and/or sensor are any better than those from any other iPhone, just that the system as a whole is the best.
Likewise, the "best single-camera system ever in an iPhone" doesn't confirm that the SE's single-camera result matches or betters a shot taken using one camera of a multi-camera iPhone, such as the 11. Only that it betters other single-camera iPhones.
It could be (and likely is) a great camera. But it's difficult to draw too many conclusions from that one marketing statement alone.
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Sorry for being pedantic, but that statement as well is subject to interpretation.
"A new Wide sensor with 100 percent Focus Pixels enables Night Mode".
Without additional information, that statement only says that that particular sensor enables Night Mode, not that it is required for Night Mode, or that 100 percent Focus Pixels is required for Night Mode. We just know that that particular new Wide sensor, which was used for Night Mode, happens to have 100 percent Focus Pixels.
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Indeed, in the absence of other information, it could be subject to interpretation.
In the 6 months since the launch of iPhone 11 Pro, we've seen what Night Mode requires. It's not available on the telephoto or ultra-wide lenses. Those sensors lack 100% Focus Pixels. When a user attempts a 2x Night Mode photo, the iPhone 11 Pro switches back to the main lens and digitally zooms in. It's pretty clear Night Mode requires 100% Focus Pixels.
At this point, everything points to SE2 having an 8/XR sensor. Anything is possible, but the chance of SE2 having iPhone 11 sensor is about as likely as Apple putting in 4GB of RAM and software locking it to 3GB only.
Good thread.
I am coming from an iPhone 8 and an improved camera would tip the scale for me towards upgrading.
A13 is great but my iPhone 8 is not laging in any way at all. I dont have Wifi 6 in my home and probably wont have it for another year or two.
The front camera is the same with also sucks
I am coming from an iPhone 8 and an improved camera would tip the scale for me towards upgrading.
A13 is great but my iPhone 8 is not laging in any way at all. I dont have Wifi 6 in my home and probably wont have it for another year or two.
The front camera is the same with also sucks
Again, that's only your speculation.
Just the basic concepts of computational low-light photography explains why the middle camera was selected - regardless of any aspect related to focusing.
Night Mode (by Apple and third-party apps) works by aligning and stacking multiple exposures to simulate a long exposure, reducing both noise and motion blur from camera movement in the process. The telephoto camera would be far less practical, as it would be more difficult for the user to hold steady enough for the required duration at the longer focal length. Even with optical stabilization, the moving lens element(s) simply run out of travel when asked to compensate for too much shake, or too much overall aiming drift. It wouldn't make for as good of a user experience, so it makes sense that Apple wouldn't include it.
The ultra-wide camera, by comparison, is optics-limited - a much slower f/2.4 lens (vs f1.8 on the main wide camera), and also lacking optical image stabilization. (There are also perspective-warping impacts for software-based stabilization methods on ultra-wide lenses). So in a general sense, that camera is not nearly as good of a choice for low-light photography.
The middle camera is the sweet spot - Being a more modest FOV reduces the impact of hand shake, having a large aperture allows the most light for the given exposure time, and optical image stabilization helps smooth out what camera shake remains. A small amount of digital zoom completes the package - giving the alignment algorithms more border margin pixels to work with (and crop away) for shifting and rotating the separate captures to align them before blending.
The astronomy world has been doing this for decades. Without anything resembling a "focus pixel".
Again, that's only your speculation.
Just the basic concepts of computational low-light photography explains why the middle camera was selected - regardless of any aspect related to focusing.
Night Mode (by Apple and third-party apps) works by aligning and stacking multiple exposures to simulate a long exposure, reducing both noise and motion blur from camera movement in the process. The telephoto camera would be far less practical, as it would be more difficult for the user to hold steady enough for the required duration at the longer focal length. Even with optical stabilization, the moving lens element(s) simply run out of travel when asked to compensate for too much shake, or too much overall aiming drift. It wouldn't make for as good of a user experience, so it makes sense that Apple wouldn't include it.
The ultra-wide camera, by comparison, is optics-limited - a much slower f/2.4 lens (vs f1.8 on the main wide camera), and also lacking optical image stabilization. (There are also perspective-warping impacts for software-based stabilization methods on ultra-wide lenses). So in a general sense, that camera is not nearly as good of a choice for low-light photography.
The middle camera is the sweet spot - Being a more modest FOV reduces the impact of hand shake, having a large aperture allows the most light for the given exposure time, and optical image stabilization helps smooth out what camera shake remains. A small amount of digital zoom completes the package - giving the alignment algorithms more border margin pixels to work with (and crop away) for shifting and rotating the separate captures to align them before blending.
The astronomy world has been doing this for decades. Without anything resembling a "focus pixel".
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
Apple says "The new Wide sensor with 100 percent Focus Pixels and advanced software enables Night mode." To me, that's pretty clear Apple's implementation of Night Mode requires Focus Pixels.
Yes, we've seen night photos using apps that don't require special sensors. The Huawei P30 Pro can take spectacular night mode photos using its telephoto lens. The Pixel 4 can take Night Sight photos using the selfie camera without OIS. It all depends on the implementation.
In the context of this thread and based on the information provided by Apple, their implementation requires Focus Pixels.
youre correct
Rene Ritchie (as well as a few other tech you tubers) are saying it’s the 8 camera (lens, sensor)
With the 11 ISP (makes sense given the features and the A13)
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apparently the rear camera is the same as the iphone8, but it’s just using the ISP from the A13/ iPhone 11
Regardless of what actual lens the new SE has, Apple claim the best single camera lens on an iPhone. Bold statement unless they know it to be true.
To be fair, the Google Pixel phones don't have a lens of any real quality over other phones, it's just the software and algorithms behind the processing. So I can see Apple getting this right meaning the camera shouldn't be a disappointment and will be an improvement for many.
To be fair, the Google Pixel phones don't have a lens of any real quality over other phones, it's just the software and algorithms behind the processing. So I can see Apple getting this right meaning the camera shouldn't be a disappointment and will be an improvement for many.