Is 20'' ACD worth 700 (CDN)?

[linuxophile]

Hi all,

I start with a disclaimer: I am venting.

Here it goes: never mind the price of the Mini, there are several discussions on it.
But now I just visited Apple store and they sell the 20'' Cinema Display (not the LED one, but the one with the DVI input) for $699 (Canadian).

Just as baseline comparison: I can buy a 20'' Samsung at Futureshop for $199, which also gives me the option of returning it within 15 days for a full refund, no questions asked (for example, if it has 1 dead pixel).

It is ridiculous.
"Apple: trailing innovation".
There, I have said it.

C'mon out fanboys!

 

[Tallest Skil]

Yeah, it's not an intelligent idea to insult us when asking us for help.

Buy a piece of crap third-party display if you want, or buy an equally matched third-party display if you want. They'll both be cheaper, but the Cinema Displays use H-IPS panels.

 

[linuxophile]

Yeah, it's not an intelligent idea to insult us when asking us for help.

Buy a piece of crap third-party display if you want, or buy an equally matched third-party display if you want. They'll both be cheaper, but the Cinema Displays use H-IPS panels.

That's exactly what I was expecting.

What was the insult?
The "trailing innovation" joke?
The "fanboys" teaser?
Was I not clear with the disclaimer?

So, I will take home your technical explanation, and ignore your insult to me.
Cheers and lighten up.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Was I not clear with the disclaimer?

That does not give you the right to say whatever you wish, nor does it mean that what you say will be heeded as such.

Generally, monitor panels are TN, with some being S-PVA and the best being H-IPS.

If you're doing photography or graphic design work, you'll definitely want a H-IPS, but you can get away with a S-PVA or even TN if color accuracy doesn't matter. I have two 24" TNs and they look very good to me.

The Cinema Displays also trail in response time and contrast ratio, so any third-party display you get will beat them out in that respect these days.

 

[linuxophile]

That does not give you the right to say whatever you wish, nor does it mean that what you say will be heeded as such.
.

Sorry for dwelling on the "netiquette" issue.
1) Being the post admittedly polemical, polemical tone should be expected.
There was no "deep" argument used, no important issues touched upon.
2) I did not address it to anyone in particular.

One could simply reply in a similarly jocular tone: "Oh yes they suck! But they have H-IPS which beats the crap out of the competition".

Anyways, I will have some googling to do to know what all those acronyms mean. Your answer had quite some technical meat in it, thanks.

 

[Tallest Skil]

One could simply reply in a similarly jocular tone: "Oh yes they suck! But they have H-IPS which beats the crap out of the competition".

DO ignore people who say that, because even though they have H-IPS panels, the rest of the specs are grievously lacking for the money.

Except the new LED one. It's the cheapest in its class on the market right now, but there again, it doesn't work with anything but the newest laptops and won't work with anything else until the iMac and Mac Mini are updated.

 

[bobfitz14]

i don't get this thread...are you asking if you should save a couple hundred (CDN $) and buy a non-Apple product? or are you asking as to why Apple's products are high priced? or asking why people buy Apple's products in the first place when they as a whole can save massive amounts of money?

 

[brentsg]

Meh generally any OP that contains the word fanboy isn't worth responding to.

 

[linuxophile]

Meh generally any OP that contains the word fanboy isn't worth responding to.

And indeed you didn't. So far, only Tallest Skil (apart from the initially offended tone) has given a sensible explanation.

So, "what was the question, Mr Feynman?"

I will articulate better:
The explicit question was: "Is the 20'' worth $700?"
And, reading past the declared venting tone:
Is there a secret advantage in spending 700 for a display when something that to the non-initiated seems equivalent costs 200, and has also -de facto- the no-dead pixels guarantee?

Implied questions are: why Apple uses this irritating policy of selling outdated (see Mini, see non LED ACD) at incredibly high prices? And yet, in the tech-spec page touting the "leading edge" value of the hardware?
Now these last implications are clearly rhetorical, as I do not expect an Apple's salesman to be reading these forums.

On a related note: I love OSX and the design etc of Apple products, yet I cannot find reasonable (commercial) justification for the pricing of part of Apple's lineup.


So, here is my re-articulated post, without the teasing.
I could have done it in the first place -true- but I was writing in the spur of the moment and I made as clear as possible with the disclaimer that that was the case.

 

[Tallest Skil]

The explicit question was: "Is the 20'' worth $700?"

Nope.

Is there a secret advantage in spending 700 for a display when something that to the non-initiated seems equivalent costs 200, and has also -de facto- the no-dead pixels guarantee?

It has... two FireWire 400 ports?

Implied questions are: why Apple uses this irritating policy of selling outdated (see Mini, see non LED ACD) at incredibly high prices? And yet, in the tech-spec page touting the "leading edge" value of the hardware?

Apple doesn't change their product pages without an update. Apple doesn't drop prices of products without a hardware update. It makes them money.

Like... tons of money.

 

[jonnysods]

The ACD's are amazing, but in this day and age - I don't reckon that they are worth $700.

However, if I were you, you can find them pretty amazingly cheap second hand!

 

[linuxophile]

It has... two FireWire 400 ports?

Hey, that just gives an idea: the new macbook has no firewire: if you hook it to a display with firewire, will it be able to use them?

 

[Tallest Skil]

Hey, that just gives an idea: the new macbook has no firewire: if you hook it to a display with firewire, will it be able to use them?

No, because the Cinema Display has a FireWire cable that you must plug in to get it to work. You can get the USB to work by plugging in that USB cable, though.

DVI doesn't transmit USB and FireWire, but ADC did. ADC was Apple's old proprietary connector that did power, DVI, USB, and FireWire, and it rocked, but it wasn't standard...

 

[munkery]

I bought a refurb 20 inch ACD and I like it; even though refurb still more pricey than other manufacturers IPS displays. But refurb made the price more reasonable.

It has one sticky subpixel only a few pixels up from the bottom of the display, I had to be neurotic to find it so I am not worried about it.

I bought it over anything else because of color accuracy combined with the aesthetics of the design and cable routing. Wouldn't have got one if it wasn't refurb.

You have to remember with IPS panels, the design of the panel which gives it better color accuracy also makes it a little more prone to blacklight bleeding as there is less occlusion due to thinner and reduced number of electrodes (edit: an ips has more electrodes and requires more backlighting; the brighter backlighting causes the bleeding) between the backlights and the lcd panel. Mine is minimal for an IPS.

So, your decision when buying a display is better color accuracy vs less backlight bleeding and cost. Also, some movies are color adjusted to correct for color issues as LCD TVs use cheaper panels so the color accuracy of an IPS will not always be a factor in your decision given the nature of your general computer usage.

Also, don't trust the advertised spec of panels. In most cases those specs are those of the panel manufacturer, tested using optimal hardware running it, and not tested as sold in the retail setup. Apple specs represent the performance of the panel in the retail setup.

P.S. Put an IPS panel display beside another type of display (S-PVA, TN; especially a TN) and you can really see a big difference in terms of color accuracy. Edit: but put them to black and turn the lights off and you can see the difference in backlight bleeding.

 

[Gunga Din]

Its a tough purchase, thats for sure. I got one recently for $500 (Brand New) , but I had a $100 gift card.

I picked it for the great color and design. Plus I have the previous MBP so I couldnt get the new 24" Model. But i'm happy with the purchase.

 

[PDE]

I think the ACD 20" is far over-priced, but I also think it's a really good display since it uses an IPS panels. What is unforgivable is that at the price you only get 1 year of warranty. I mean, that's insulting given that other big manufacturers pretty much have 3 years as standard AND the same or better specifications AND are much cheaper. The only thing that you can't get with any other display is the sleek design.

So, it comes down to this: if you don't mind less beautiful (but much more functional - height adjustment, rotating ability, more input options etc) design then there are many other displays that are equivalent or better in quality and much better value.

Given the high quality ,but otherwise general lack of features/ergonomic adjustments/input options and just one year warranty, I think they should be priced at about US $350-400 at the most. But I guess the market rules!

Having said all this, if money is no problem, they're great, beautiful and a pleasure to use! I'd love a nice 30" ACD