Is buying Applecare paying for something you are already due by law?

[stefan1975]

Hi,

i am getting a new MBP and was considering applecare. I really don't want to pay that extra $$$. Lots of laptops (HP) already come with 2 year warranty. I don't need the 90 days telephone support, so it would just be about the hardware dying.

However doesn't EU law protect consumers and state that electronical products have an expected liftime of at least 2-4 years and that within this timeframe the supplier of the product (ie macbook) should fix techical issues that are not caused by the enduser?

There were lots of tv shows here where they say never to buy added warranty for you electronical products unless it is >5 years because they are obliged to fix it anyways.

I think that applecare doesn't cover user caused issues anyway, so what is the benefit of getting EUR300 applecare? Am i missing something here?

thanks,
stefan

 

[Hellhammer]

At least in here, products have expected life time by their value so 2000€ laptop shouldn't break in 1.5 years but that's horribly long process to get something fixed by using that "law". You have to contact customer protection offices etc so you may end up fighting for months, with AppleCare it takes you minutes

 

[stefan1975]

so you pay EUR2000 for a premium laptop that should outlive even my pets and then another EUR300 because apple doesn't abide by consumer laws and makes you go all the way to court to get what you are owed and wants you to pay just to speed up the process, even if you are in you right?

mmm that seems the wrong way around.....

 

[runebinder]

Don't quite know how the legislation works for the EU, but the UK sales of goods acts states major electronics should be fit for purpose for 6 years.

Problem is after 6 months it's up to the consumer to prove the issue is down to an inherent flaw in the manufacturing. So as far as I'm aware, over here you have to pay out of your own pocket to get it assessed by an independent engineer to get a report.

And as hellhammer states it can take a while to get the law enforced. It'd be better if Apple gave a longer guarantee (my £550 Sony TV came with.a 5 year guarantee gratis), or the law makers just made a legal minimum like 3 or 5 years that all electronics over a certain price automatically has.

But then again it's never been a fair world.

 

[Hellhammer]

so you pay EUR2000 for a premium laptop that should outlive even my pets and then another EUR300 because apple doesn't abide by consumer laws and makes you go all the way to court to get what you are owed and wants you to pay just to speed up the process, even if you are in you right?

mmm that seems the wrong way around.....

It's now a law. There doesn't read "all 2000€ laptops have 4 year warranty". At least in our laws, there reads that giving warranty is optional but the manufacturer must guarantee that the product has decent usage time when compared to its value. It also has to be a manufacturing fault, not something you caused. Consumer level products usually have 1 year warranty.

Theoretically, you are covered by that law for few years BUT it's extremely long process if Apple refuses to fix it. It will likely end up in court so that's taking months and you likely have already bought a new one or got it repaired. If the law provided several year warranty for all electronics, all manufacturers would raise the prices so they could cover the repairs so basically, it doesn't matter when you pay for the extended warranty, you pay for it anyway. Now you have a choice, if that was true, you wouldn't.

AC saves you the huge hassle and is IMO worth the 300€

 

[stefan1975]

yes well i still think it is upsidedowninsideout. theoretically damage would have to covered by apple, but they don't abide by these consumer regulations like other electronica producers.

For this wrong behaviour they don't get punished or fined but instead get rewarded by us - the customers - to just go ahead and pay an really high tax of €300 to have apple help us without hassle when they were supposed to in the first place for free with an big apologie for the premium product failing so soon.

i guess as long as we reward them for this behaviour there is no way they are going to change this, heck it is making them even more $$$

 

[cokeb]

When I found out last autumn that the optical port on my MB, which I bought in the summer of 2007, didn't work properly I got it fixed free of charge under the Swedish consumer protection law. Yes, technically I had to show that the issue was an "original defect" and not due to abuse, but at least in Sweden that bar is set pretty low. Since there were no physical abuse or obvious water damage Apple didn't try to argue the issue.

 

[chrispholt]

Don't quite know how the legislation works for the EU, but the UK
But then again it's never been a fair world.

The UK is in the EU. So any European Union law is in force in the UK, there is no differences In France, Sweden or Germany..... Unless less the other countries have there own law. However this law would really have to extend on the EU time period as if it didn't, it would have no purpose.
countries cant choose which laws to accept.

 

[Hellhammer]

yes well i still think it is upsidedowninsideout. theoretically damage would have to covered by apple, but they don't abide by these consumer regulations like other electronica producers.

For this wrong behaviour they don't get punished or fined but instead get rewarded by us - the customers - to just go ahead and pay an really high tax of €300 to have apple help us without hassle when they were supposed to in the first place for free with an big apologie for the premium product failing so soon.

i guess as long as we reward them for this behaviour there is no way they are going to change this, heck it is making them even more $$$

Other manufacturers don't care about that "law" any more that Apple does. Why should they? Not many are ready to end up in court because of few hundreds.

 

[runebinder]

The UK is in the EU. So any European Union law is in force in the UK, there is no differences In France, Sweden or Germany..... Unless less the other countries have there own law. However this law would really have to extend on the EU time period as if it didn't, it would have no purpose.
countries cant choose which laws to accept.

As far as I'm aware although the 2 share much common ground, their are some differences with the UK Sales of Goods act and the EU Legislation, but then again could be wrong

 

[stefan1975]

Other manufacturers don't care about that "law" any more that Apple does. Why should they? Not many are ready to end up in court because of few hundreds.

well toshiba gives 3 years warranty, HP 2, dell gave me 3 years onsite gold service for $69, my panasonic tv has 3 year coverage. so i guess Apple is "unique" in the way they want to earn money from their obligations.

 

[Hellhammer]

well toshiba gives 3 years warranty, HP 2, dell gave me 3 years onsite gold service for $69, my panasonic tv has 3 year coverage. so i guess Apple is "unique" in the way they want to earn money from their obligations.

It's their own choice, the law is irrelevant. Apple doesn't have that much competition as they are the only company that can use OS X so they can do pretty much anything. In PC side, there is a lot competition, warranty being one.

 

[Bankaimadness]

I find not giving a three year warranty for free is just as close to fraud then anything else.

Granted, its the people's choice whether to buy a Mac or not but when you carefully piece it out together, Apple is just as money hungry as those companies in China.

When an computer cost more than 1,000$ and 1000$ isn't cheap whatsoever; in my opinion the computer itself should last atleast three years minimal on normal usage. I find in unacceptable that Apple require us to pay money for further warranty because it just too much. For a 15inch MBP, it cost like what.. 1,799? I don't see why it is so expensive for Apple to give a three year warranty. I mean Macbook Pro are about build quality right? Why shouldn't it live up to it?

I mean it should last three years without trouble but Apple is just mindless playing the consumner that OO.... "since the computer is so expensive I must pay to ensure it to work for THREE YEARS".

 

[chrispholt]

As far as I'm aware although the 2 share much common ground, their are some differences with the UK Sales of Goods act and the EU Legislation, but then again could be wrong

I'm sure that as an active member of the EU the UK has to abide by the laws implemented by the EU.

 

[stefan1975]

I find not giving a three year warranty for free is just as close to fraud then anything else.

that is just how i felt about it too. I thought perhaps i was missing something, but all consumer autorities her in NL advise us to *never* buy extended warranty because that would be buying something the supplier *has* to provide anyway.

Ofcourse apple having a monopoly in the OSX field makes things harder, it's impossible to tell them to stick it and that you're buying another OSX product instead.

 

[J&JPolangin]

that is just how i felt about it too. I thought perhaps i was missing something, but all consumer autorities her in NL advise us to *never* buy extended warranty because that would be buying something the supplier *has* to provide anyway.

Ofcourse apple having a monopoly in the OSX field makes things harder, it's impossible to tell them to stick it and that you're buying another OSX product instead.

...so what's the point of this thread?

If you don't want to purchase applecare then don't... I hope you have a trouble free experience - best of luck.

I usually don't buy extended warranties either, I got my whitebook as a NIB "last gen" model and used a reputable applecare dealer in the USA to get the applecare cheaper than direct from apple so it was still cheaper than a brand new current gen machine and I was happy with my purchase... I'll have applecare if I need it.

Just figure out what's important for you to spend your own hard earned $$ on a do it... since we don't have those types of laws in the USA, I opted to gamble "for applecare"...

 

[Deepshade]

Hi,

i am getting a new MBP and was considering applecare. I really don't want to pay that extra $$$. Lots of laptops (HP) already come with 2 year warranty. I don't need the 90 days telephone support, so it would just be about the hardware dying.

However doesn't EU law protect consumers and state that electronical products have an expected liftime of at least 2-4 years and that within this timeframe the supplier of the product (ie macbook) should fix techical issues that are not caused by the enduser?

There were lots of tv shows here where they say never to buy added warranty for you electronical products unless it is >5 years because they are obliged to fix it anyways.

I think that applecare doesn't cover user caused issues anyway, so what is the benefit of getting EUR300 applecare? Am i missing something here?

thanks,
stefan

In the UK (and I THINK Eu) you get a reasonable lifetime repair or replacement. BUT its a real pain to enforce. Ultimately if you want to go this route - purchase on a credit card with built in legal protection. If anything goes wrong after a year - get the cards legal team to follow it up. IF you don't you could end up wasting time and money and it ultimately costing you more than purchasing Applecare should something go wrong.

Or take the easy way out and pay for Applecare.
Or trust that nothing will go wrong. It

 

[silexh]

I posted this somewhere before, but in case you haven't seen this:
kassa.vara.nl/tv/afspeelpagina/fragment/het-tweezijdige-beleid-van-apple/speel/1/
You being Dutch (from what I've gathered), I assume you speak Dutch

 

[jake.f]

I just ordered a MBP. I did not get Applecare so I am counting on it lasting at least 5 years, by then I would have started and finished uni.

 

[bigjobby]

I'm sure that as an active member of the EU the UK has to abide by the laws implemented by the EU.

Not necessarily. The UK does not have to abide to anything it hasn't signed to... just like any other country. However, the sale of goods act does give some protection (somewhat) but the legalities, bureaucracy of it all can get messy. I'd rather just get AppleCare and save the headache.

 

[Hellhammer]

From Finnish consumer protection center's site (translated from Finnish). The last paragraph is about durability so it's the most important.

"Law doesn't instruct to give warranty. Even consumer protection law gives the consumer certain basic rights in case of problem. Giving warranty is optional and it is used as marketing trick. The seller is responsible for the warranty unless it has given notice that it's not before the trade."

"If the seller suspects that the flaw has been caused by the user during the warranty, they have to show that. This is one of the benefits of warranties. Otherwise the responsibility of showing the flaw is on the user."

"Time of warranty is not the same as company's time of responsibility of a flaw. In consumer protection law, there has not been set any accurate time for the responsibility times of a product flaw. If it has been a short time since the warranty expired, the seller cannot refuse of possible responsibility of a product flaw by just saying "We don't fix because the warranty has expired". They have to give other reasons why they are not responsible of the flaw in the product."

"Consumer has a right to expect the product to last for a realistic time in normal use. The product may have to be repaired or fixed during its lifetime from consumer's wallet. During the early lifespan and right after the expiration of the warranty, the seller has big responsibility. The responsibility decreases when the product gets older. Electronics usually have a warranty of one or two years. Their life expectancy - depending on the product - is usually significantly longer. If the product breaks right after the expiration of the warranty, the expenses are not small and the consumer has not used it against the instructions, the user can appeal to durability."

Yes, Finland is a member of EU. The translation may not be the best as Finnish law text isn't that easy to read plus I'm not aware of all English counterparts. Zero mentioning about any EU law or 2-4 years of repair responsibility.

 

[stefan1975]

I posted this somewhere before, but in case you haven't seen this:
kassa.vara.nl/tv/afspeelpagina/fragment/het-tweezijdige-beleid-van-apple/speel/1/
You being Dutch (from what I've gathered), I assume you speak Dutch

ha! yes that is a good read (and yes i do not only speak, but also read Dutch ). it's exactly the crux of the problem. If the US doesnt have consumer protection laws I can understand the validity of apple care there. Unfortunately as the Kassa article states Apple doesn't play nice here in the EU/NL and won't fix issues even when they should, referring to the customers lack of applecare.

I really don't want to pay >10% of the laptops value to have apple live up to their legal responsibilities, but what is a lone customer to do? Threaten not to buy a MBP again .... don't think steve will loose a moments sleep over that.

 

[stefan1975]

...so what's the point of this thread?

the point is trying to find out if there is anything i am missing in thinking that apple is scamming us out of another €300 or so by asking money for something they are obliged to do anyways.

It could be that apple is a fraud, or perhaps tehre are benefits that I as a layman fail to see other then getting them to cooperate willingly instead of going to court over trivial stuff.

 

[Ludaru]

In Norway; five years on laptops. Apple isn't very cooperative here ...

 

[wschutz]

That's right... 2 years in EU; however, as it was said... the first 6 months any failure is assumed to be a manufacturer problem; after that... you have to prove it.

Though most of the manufacturers grant a 2 year warranty and that's it. Apple is no different...
At least in Spain, on the phone... yes... you have one year... but if you go to an authorised repair center with the proof of purchase, they will repair your mac for free (and in the end... it's Apple who is paying for the replacement part plus whatever fee the repair center gets...).
But note that you must have bought the mac on Spanish soil (hence, inside Spain... two years... outside... one year). I don't know if the same happens in other EU countries.

In the end... Apple does what it does best... getting money from your pocket...
The benefits of AppleCare are that you get your mac repaired for free while if you have to pay it for yourself... you'd better end up buying another one. Note that you cannot buy a logic board and replace it, you need to buy Apple's one, and as usual... they will be overpriced.
So, AppleCare is just a way for you to use your mac without worrying in case it breaks during those three years (or two to be precise since you're entitled to the first one). It is not necessary but if the worst happens and you were thinking about keeping your mac for a few more years... then... well... you know what :/