Is buying Mac OS X enough?

[courteous]

Hello,

would there be any problem (except, of course, breaching the "non-Apple-branded" EULA) with submitting an application otherwise developed in 'Snow Leo.' or 'Lion'?

I already have an iPad 2 and would feel at unease using quite a proportion of my savings on a 1000€ (entry) MBA just for app developing (and possible submission) ... not to mention the overlap between the devices.

So what would/does happen if one has only the OS?

 

[simsaladimbamba]

You still would have to build a Hackintosh, as you can't just pop in the Mac OS X installation DVD into any PC and simply install Mac OS X onto it.

InsanelyMac Forum

InsanelyMac Hardware Database

Hackintosh.com

OSx86 Project - "the undisputed leader in information regarding OS X on x86 hardware and Apple's Intel transition."
​

Or you get virtualisation software and install Mac OS X 10.7 Lion into it, if that is possible.

 

[courteous]

Thank you for your reply.

What about app submission? Would this "non-Apple-branded" thing cause any trouble? Anybody gone through this process also (not just the Hackintosh thing)?

OK, finally got around putting the right keywords to Google. Again, thanks for the help.

 

[talmy]

I already have an iPad 2 and would feel at unease using quite a proportion of my savings on a 1000€ (entry) MBA just for app developing (and possible submission)... not to mention the overlap between the devices.

No reason you have to buy a new MBA to do this. Just buy a used MacBook or a Mac mini. That should reduce the pain by 50% or more.

I don't know about your tax laws, but here computers used for business use can be tax deductible. And in any case you can sell the computer when finished to reduce the loss.

 

[courteous]

Hi Talmy,

you're right, I almost bought 'Snow Leo.' for 55€ ... and changed my mind, as this would be included in MB (I hope so, see very next question).

Now, does buying MB let you create an install (not "boot"-only) disc? So that I'd also be able to use Mac OS on "non-Apple-branded" desktop when at home?

Regarding the tax deduction though, I don't think being a student counts as business.

Mac Mini: with "only" 200€ or so more, you get the portability of a MB ... subjective of course, that's so I view it.

 

[snberk103]

...

Regarding the tax deduction though, I don't think being a student counts as business.

...

You can be a student and a business at the same time, at least in Canada and I believe the USA. Check your local regulations, of course.

The only requirement to being "in business" is that you are carrying on an operation that has a reasonable expectation of making a profit. There is no requirements on how big that profit needs to be. You do need to keep accurate and complete records, however.

If you are selling the app - as opposed to giving it away - then you have revenue. If you have revenue, then you can claim reasonable expenses as a business expense. Read up on local tax laws. I used to know a couple - photographers - who hadn't paid income taxes in 20 years. What they did was totally legal, and involved keeping really really good records and knowing what could be claimed as an expense, and when. I knew him when we were both students (he was returning for some refresher courses - that were, of course, tax deductible).

 

[old-wiz]

Hi Talmy,

you're right, I almost bought 'Snow Leo.' for 55€ ... and changed my mind, as this would be included in MB (I hope so, see very next question).

Now, does buying MB let you create an install (not "boot"-only) disc? So that I'd also be able to use Mac OS on "non-Apple-branded" desktop when at home?

Regarding the tax deduction though, I don't think being a student counts as business.

Mac Mini: with "only" 200€ or so more, you get the portability of a MB ... subjective of course, that's so I view it.

No matter what media you have, you cannot simply install OSx on a non-Apple desktop. You need to make sure that many things will work; the logic board/motherboard has to be correct, right cpu, right GPU, supprted sound, ethernet, etc. A resulting Hackintosh is not a machine for a novice. If you are comfortable debugging OS problems, know how to find drivers, know how to tweak the .plist files, then it can be done. If not don't bother.

 

[robbieduncan]

Buying a MacBook, or any other Apple product, does not give you a license to install OSX on any other machine. The license is for that machine only. In addition the OSX install DVD supplied is locked to only install on that particular type of Mac to prevent casual piracy.

 

[courteous]

Check your local regulations, of course.

There's a lot of those ... and frankly, I don't think I'd be able to keep up with studies (regardless of being in senior year).

... he was returning for some refresher courses - that were, of course, tax deductible ...

No matter what media you have, you cannot simply install OSx on a non-Apple desktop. You need to make sure that many things will work; the logic board/motherboard has to be correct, right cpu, right GPU, supprted sound, ethernet, etc. A resulting Hackintosh is not a machine for a novice. If you are comfortable debugging OS problems, know how to find drivers, know how to tweak the .plist files, then it can be done. If not don't bother.

I'm fairly at home with UNIX(-like) systems ... in the beginning, there was the terminal. I cherish the openness of it all, and now, I'm thinking of buying an MBA.

Regarding the used path talmy suggested: of course, I thought of it, but their owners regularly over-estimate their value (not that the price should be on par with "regular" notebooks) ... and it's hard to get a 4GB RAM version (a must, seeing that the MBA is not DIY-friendly) ... I'll probably end up wasting my money on new one. There's still hope for a reasonable used-price-tag.

----------

Buying a MacBook, or any other Apple product, does not give you a license to install OSX on any other machine. The license is for that machine only. In addition the OSX install DVD supplied is locked to only install on that particular type of Mac to prevent casual piracy.

Is this true? Buying an MB(A) (for €1300) doesn't allow me to install the OSx on home PC? Or, are you referring to EULA?

In addition the OSX install DVD supplied is locked to only install on that particular type of Mac to prevent casual piracy.

Again, is this the "non-Apple-branded computer" part of EULA? Or something else (what)?

Buying just the OS seems a viable option again.

 

[robbieduncan]

Again, is this the "non-Apple-branded computer" part of EULA? Or something else (what)?

Buying just the OS seems a viable option again.

No it's not just the EULA. If you buy a MacBook the install media you get with it will not let you install on another type of Mac, say a iMac, let alone a non-Apple computer. This is built into the installer application on the DVD. Retail copies of the OS do not have this limitation.

 

[paulrbeers]

No it's not just the EULA. If you buy a MacBook the install media you get with it will not let you install on another type of Mac, say a iMac, let alone a non-Apple computer. This is built into the installer application on the DVD. Retail copies of the OS do not have this limitation.

And this is true for any install disc you get for ANY personal computer. If you buy Dell, HP, Acer, etc... All the Windows discs that come with these will only let you install on that particular model of theirs.

 

[snberk103]

... I'll probably end up wasting my money on new one. There's still hope for a reasonable used-price-tag.

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Is this true? Buying an MB(A) (for €1300) doesn't allow me to install the OSx on home PC? Or, are you referring to EULA?

Again, is this the "non-Apple-branded computer" part of EULA? Or something else (what)?

Buying just the OS seems a viable option again.

Two thoughts.... 1) You can buy a "new" Mac on the refurbished store. Sold as good as new, complete with 1 year warranty extendable to 3 years with AppleCare. There is something to be said for knowing you will not have to budget for repairs for 3 years (assuming no accidental damage). Refurbs can be up to 25% off....

2) It is ironic that someone who wants to develop an app doesn't get that the EULA is what "allows" you to run the OS on just the computer it was bought for, and not a PC. I hope I can figure out which app you write and release so I can decide for myself whether or not to rip it off or not. If it's a paid app I will install it on my Macs and as many of my friend's Macs as I can, and then I will put it out into the wild as freeware. If it's a free app I'll just release it under my own name, and charge people money for it. After all - the only thing that prevents me from doing that is the EULA....

 

[Mackilroy]

No matter what media you have, you cannot simply install OSx on a non-Apple desktop. You need to make sure that many things will work; the logic board/motherboard has to be correct, right cpu, right GPU, supprted sound, ethernet, etc. A resulting Hackintosh is not a machine for a novice. If you are comfortable debugging OS problems, know how to find drivers, know how to tweak the .plist files, then it can be done. If not don't bother.

It's not nearly that complicated. There are sites which offer a full list of compatible hardware (there's a LOT of compatible hardware) and also quite painless ways to install OS X.

Is this true? Buying an MB(A) (for €1300) doesn't allow me to install the OSx on home PC? Or, are you referring to EULA?

That's correct. The restore disc that came with a particular Mac will only work on that model.

Again, is this the "non-Apple-branded computer" part of EULA? Or something else (what)?

Buying just the OS seems a viable option again.

Just buy the OS – it'll save you the hassle. If you'd like more resources for building a hackintosh, PM me and I'll link you to the best ones. I use a hackintosh myself.

 

[courteous]

You can buy a "new" Mac on the refurbished store. Sold as good as new, complete with 1 year warranty extendable to 3 years with AppleCare. There is something to be said for knowing you will not have to budget for repairs for 3 years (assuming no accidental damage). Refurbs can be up to 25% off....

If only my country had an official Apple store (not the "premium-reseller" ****s). Will certainly check the neighbouring states (which almost all have the official thing).

... I hope I can figure out which app you write and release so I can decide for myself whether or not to rip it off or not. ...

What if I buy MB and retail OS* ... and then develop (part) of the app on "non-Apple-branded" PC? Besides, even if by some freak accident my app gets overly popular, I'd doubt there wouldn't be enough integers available.

Just buy the OS – it'll save you the hassle. If you'd like more resources for building a hackintosh, PM me and I'll link you to the best ones. I use a hackintosh myself.

I think I'll do just that.

* I've already bought one.

 

[snberk103]

If only my country had an official Apple store (not the "premium-reseller" ****s). Will certainly check the neighbouring states (which almost all have the official thing).

Refurbished Macs are found on the online store. If you access to Apple's online store, you may have access to refurbished units.

What if I buy MB and retail OS* ... and then develop (part) of the app on "non-Apple-branded" PC? ...

I'm just saying that if you want someone to respect your intellectual property, then you should respect other's IP. No lectures from about whether it's right or wrong... I'm just pointing out the irony.

 

[courteous]

Refurbished Macs are found on the online store. If you access to Apple's online store, you may have access to refurbished units.

Indeed, but each store will only deliver in the very same country (and not outside).

I'm just saying that if you want someone to respect your intellectual property, then you should respect other's IP. No lectures from about whether it's right or wrong... I'm just pointing out the irony.

I just bought the retail OSX. Now you are referring to EULA, aren't you? Well, what about it? What if, say, BMW told me where I can drive "their" car?

 

[iDuel]

If you want to use OSX then you should buy an apple computer and use it legally. Hackintosh is good for recreational use, but for App Developers it should not be a viable option.

If you want someone to respect your IP, then you need to respect Apple's.

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I just bought the retail OSX. Now you are referring to EULA, aren't you? Well, what about it? What if, say, BMW told me where I can drive "their" car?

You don't get the point. OSX is meant to be used on Apple Hardware exclusively. Especially if you plan on making money with it.

 

[snberk103]

Indeed, but each store will only deliver in the very same country (and not outside).

Bummer that you are in a country with no on-line store.

I just bought the retail OSX. Now you are referring to EULA, aren't you? Well, what about it? What if, say, BMW told me where I can drive "their" car?

You don't agree to a EULA when you purchase a car. Software is Intellectual Property, and therefore comes under copyright law. Buying a car is hardware, and therefore does not come under copyright law.

If you want to go and load a non-Apple PC with OS X, that's your business. But please don't come here and then justify yourself. It's wrong. People do wrong things all the time, and that's just how societies work. But if you are going to post in a public forum that you are doing something wrong, then you'll have to also put up with being challenged on it. I'm not going to change you mind, and you're not going to change mine, it seems.

 

[courteous]

Bummer that you are in a country with no on-line store.

Where can I download Snow Leo. online? I'd be more than happy to pay $29 (instead of almost $80).

You don't agree to a EULA when you purchase a car. Software is Intellectual Property, and therefore comes under copyright law. Buying a car is hardware, and therefore does not come under copyright law.

I'm still (very) likely go and buy that neat MBA ... I always do this splurging after saving up for some time. Then I'll "have it all": the iPhone, the iPad, and MacBook ... yay, .

Now, when at home, can I partially develop on faster machine (on a $80 Snow Leopard)? This is the only thing I'm asking: having bought both retail OSx and MacBook, will I have any trouble submitting an app?

Regardless, this EULA is a gray area at best, especially in EU.

PS: To really comply with EULA: will Apple sticker-logo* suffice or, say, going the DIY version with lathe?

PPS: A better analogy (than BMW cars):

Imagine if movies released by Sony Pictures were only allowed on Sony BD/DVD players.

* Just found two white s in the iPad box. Why do they keep putting those stickers in boxes ... like bubble-gums from the '90s.

 

[talmy]

This is the only thing I'm asking: having bought both retail OSx and MacBook, will I have any trouble submitting an app?

Probably. You will still have to pay to join the developer program, and the submissions must meet a list of requirements. If you are having difficulty with a straightforward EULA, I can't imagine what you will think of all this!

 

[snberk103]

...

Regardless, this EULA is a gray area at best, especially in EU.

I keep hearing people say that (about the US, about the EU ... but until someone can point at an actual court decision that has held up under appeal.... it's not so grey.....

PS: To really comply with EULA: will Apple sticker-logo* suffice or, say, going the DIY version with lathe?
...
* Just found two white s in the iPad box. Why do they keep putting those stickers in boxes ... like bubble-gums from the '90s.

I have to admit, I've sometimes wondered if slapping the Apple provided stickers onto a PC might not make that PC comply with the Apple EULA. I forget the wording now, but I remember reading it a while ago and the thought did cross my mind if that door wasn't opened up just a crack.

But... you'd have to slap the stickers on to be legal....

One thing to consider... if you develop a particular app on your non-Apple system, and it doesn't work as expected.... don't call Apple for support. You definitely won't get a sympathetic hearing.

 

[courteous]

Probably. You will still have to pay to join the developer program, and the submissions must meet a list of requirements. If you are having difficulty with a straightforward EULA, I can't imagine what you will think of all this!

I have absolutely no qualms about paying $99/year for dev-program; you get a fair exchange for the money.

I keep hearing people say that (about the US, about the EU ... but until someone can point at an actual court decision that has held up under appeal.... it's not so grey.....

Upholding which side? Neither yet?

I have to admit, I've sometimes wondered if slapping the Apple provided stickers onto a PC might not make that PC comply with the Apple EULA. I forget the wording now, but I remember reading it a while ago and the thought did cross my mind if that door wasn't opened up just a crack.

But... you'd have to slap the stickers on to be legal....

I'll do just that; they're nice stickers after all. Again, why on Earth does Apple put them in the boxes?

One thing to consider... if you develop a particular app on your non-Apple system, and it doesn't work as expected.... don't call Apple for support. You definitely won't get a sympathetic hearing.

Besides Leopard, I'll buy the MBA and dev-program: will I have any problems with that and why? Anything other than EULA?