Is centre stage missing off the MacBook Pro?

[Seanm87]

Not sure if I just missed it but am I correct in saying centre stage is missing from the new MacBooks?

The thing they just introduced on their budget iPad doesn't get added to their £2000+ machine? The thing that would probably benefit the most from it?

I feel like everyone is talking about the notch but this seems like a huge oversight to me.

 

[TopToffee]

That’s fair. That would have been a good addition, especially in these current times.

suspect we’ll see it (along with Face ID) next year

 

[JPack]

Not an oversight, it's a deliberate choice. Center Stage requires an ultra wide lens, which means distortion.

Think about how most MacBook Pro users will be using their computer. It won't be on a countertop or in the living room with multiple users. Unlike iPad, there is only one camera on the MacBook. If someone needs to show a document or other object, they want an accurate representation.

 

[ricwilson]

Who is using the camera on their MacBook to show documents?

 

[JPack]

Who is using the camera on their MacBook to show documents?

Documents, brochures, sheets of music, 3D printed models, etc. I doubt the Apple engineers designed iPhone 12 or 13 without using a physical model of some kind.

Center Stage digitally zooms and crops an ultra wide image to generate a selfie.

If iPhone had only one camera, would anyone pick the ultra wide lens?

 

[Hugo Alvarado]

Not an oversight, it's a deliberate choice. Center Stage requires an ultra wide lens, which means distortion.

Think about how most MacBook Pro users will be using their computer. It won't be on a countertop or in the living room with multiple users. Unlike iPad, there is only one camera on the MacBook. If someone needs to show a document or other object, they want an accurate representation.

You are able to disable center stage function in iPad OS, so I don't think this is really the issue. I think they are saving this features as one sell point in one or two years.

 

[JPack]

You are able to disable center stage function in iPad OS, so I don't think this is really the issue. I think they are saving this features as one sell point in one or two years.

Disabling Center Stage doesn't fix the underlying hardware issue.

Imagine if your iPhone could only take photos using the ultra wide lens. No matter what software fix you apply, it will still be worse than using the regular lens.

Nobody puts their MacBook Pro on a kitchen counter like they do with an iPad. Center Stage is not a selling feature for MacBook Pro.

 

[RyanJWilliams]

Not an oversight, it's a deliberate choice. Center Stage requires an ultra wide lens, which means distortion.

Think about how most MacBook Pro users will be using their computer. It won't be on a countertop or in the living room with multiple users. Unlike iPad, there is only one camera on the MacBook. If someone needs to show a document or other object, they want an accurate representation.

I'm not sure if you've used Center Stage — it doesn't sound like you have — but this isn't a significant issue.

The way that camera focal length works means that if you crop the image from the centre, there is no more distortion than if you'd simply used a more zoomed in lens. So for the scenario you describe, someone would generally be in front of the computer holding the document up, and it would show up just fine.

It is true that if you go to the very edges of the camera's range there will be some distortion, which the software mostly corrects.

Nobody puts their MacBook Pro on a kitchen counter like they do with an iPad. Center Stage is not a selling feature for MacBook Pro.

It's a selling feature for me.

It is a strange implication that people are only using their iPads on kitchen counters and so the feature must not work very well there. The feature works just fine when it's used at computer-like distances on a desk. If anything, it works better because when the camera is closer it's harder to fit multiple people in should you want to do that. This isn't an uncommon requirement even in professional meetings, where multiple people are using a single laptop to dial in.

 

[JPack]

I'm not sure if you've used Center Stage — it doesn't sound like you have — but this isn't a significant issue.

The way that camera focal length works means that if you crop the image from the centre, there is no more distortion than if you'd simply used a more zoomed in lens. So for the scenario you describe, someone would generally be in front of the computer holding the document up, and it would show up just fine.

It is true that if you go to the very edges of the camera's range there will be some distortion, which the software mostly corrects.

Apple iPad Pro (2021) vs iPad Pro (2020): review

Is the iPad Pro (2021) better than the iPad Pro (2020)? Should you upgrade? Should you buy the old iPad to save money?

www.phonearena.com

This review provides a good comparison of the iPad Pro 2020 and 2021 front cameras. You can see the distortion (his head is taller in the 2021 model, even though Center Stage is disabled).

Ignoring the distortion, when you digitally crop and zoom, you lose 50% of the pixels. The 12MP front camera becomes 6MP. This is why users of iPad Pro (2021) complain the front camera is grainer and noiser.

It's a selling feature for me.

It is a strange implication that people are only using their iPads on kitchen counters and so the feature must not work very well there. The feature works just fine when it's used at computer-like distances on a desk. If anything, it works better because when the camera is closer it's harder to fit multiple people in should you want to do that. This isn't an uncommon requirement even in professional meetings, where multiple people are using a single laptop to dial in.

Do many professional users huddle together to share a single MacBook Pro during a con call? By now, every desktop computer should have a webcam and every notebook certainly has one. Maybe before the pandemic, some staff weren't assigned notebooks, but I can't see that happening in 2022.

Center Stage offers a tradeoff between sharpness/distortion and field of view. Given how most people use MacBook Pro, I doubt they want a grainer camera, especially since MacBook doesn't have a rear camera for objects or documents.

 

[ascender]

Hardware-aside, I kind of agree with the likely use-case as being one reason for its absence. I use the webcam in my MacBook Pro every day for work meetings and I'm usually sitting/standing in one position, looking directly at it. If I need to move around to get something, I'll turn the video off.

If I'm on a video call with friends or family, I'm much more likely to do that from my iPad or iPhone and be moving around, possibly coming in and out of the shot etc, so I could see Centre Stage being very useful in that scenario.

 

[doolar]

I just got my Macbook Pro 14", and as everybody else I use Teams or other meeting apps. I have no problem with the webcam, and I can't really see when I would need Center Stage on it.

On my iPad on the other hand, I'd love to have it (using the 2018 IPP), since that's more of a moving device.

When I'm in front of my Macbook I'm sitting down, and not moving around. All in all I think the new webcam is great, not that I ever complained about the older ones, I mean it's a web meeting and everybody's window is three inches...

 

[Harmonious Zen]

Here's another vote for no Center Stage. I turn it off on my iPad. I actually think it's pretty distracting and zooms in at an odd angle. Plus, I would much rather have a sharper image.

 

[barkomatic]

I didn't realize center stage made the image more grainy even when that feature is turned off? I was upset about not having it until now. When I first got my 2020 iPad Pro people mentioned and appreciated the sharper image. I wouldn't want to take a step back on that. Maybe Apple can fix that in a future iteration.

 

[JPack]

I didn't realize center stage made the image more grainy even when that feature is turned off? I was upset about not having it until now. When I first got my 2020 iPad Pro people mentioned and appreciated the sharper image. I wouldn't want to take a step back on that. Maybe Apple can fix that in a future iteration.

There is no magic fix. You choose either greater field of view or sharper image. If you could have both, Apple wouldn't need to put a separate ultra-wide camera lens on the back of iPhone 11, 12, or 13.

 

[RyanJWilliams]

Do many professional users huddle together to share a single MacBook Pro during a con call? By now, every desktop computer should have a webcam and every notebook certainly has one. Maybe before the pandemic, some staff weren't assigned notebooks, but I can't see that happening in 2022.

Center Stage offers a tradeoff between sharpness/distortion and field of view. Given how most people use MacBook Pro, I doubt they want a grainer camera, especially since MacBook doesn't have a rear camera for objects or documents.

It's pretty common. I've worked in a number of enterprise development teams and there were many occasions where we'd share a small meeting room or gather around a communal area table — they were even sometimes described as huddles!

I'd say it's probably a much more common scenario than people using it to capture documents. I haven't seen a single case of someone holding documents up for meetings and I've attended hundreds of them. It's always a screen share.

Obviously this has not been the case during the pandemic!

There is no magic fix. You choose either greater field of view or sharper image. If you could have both, Apple wouldn't need to put a separate ultra-wide camera lens on the back of iPhone 11, 12, or 13.

It's not magical, but there is a straightforward fix — put multiple cameras on that already oversized MacBook Pro 2021 notch. That, or boost the resolution and sensor size, which would mitigate the issue you describe of reduced fidelity.

 

[JPack]

The Studio Display's crappy webcam quality is a perfect example of why you don't want Center Stage. Apple is unlikely to put it in MacBook Pro either.

No firmware update will fix the image quality because the issue is due to hardware. You can pick ultrawide OR image quality, but not both. As I mentioned before, there's no magic fix.