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Is iTunes iOS' weakest link?

goobot said:
They fail to realize you can do everything on your device now on its own except restore if it's messed up.
Click to expand...

Restoring a device is a real nightmare right now. If you had that device fully loaded with apps but did not have them up to date on your local iTunes. Then you have to do this massive download of apps to get them up to date.

It would be great if Airport Extremes prefetched the updates , cached them and provides them to all your devices as needed.
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Restoring a device is a real nightmare right now. If you had that device fully loaded with apps but did not have them up to date on your local iTunes. Then you have to do this massive download of apps to get them up to date.

It would be great if Airport Extremes prefetched the updates , cached them and provides them to all your devices as needed.
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AE doesn't have GB of app storage space, unless you're talking a TimeCapsule...?

iTunes auto downloads app updates already...
 
Curun said:
AE doesn't have GB of app storage space, unless you're talking a TimeCapsule...?

iTunes auto downloads app updates already...
Click to expand...

You could plug a USB stick into an Airport Extreme. But you are right the Airport Time capsule is a more natural fit for this optimization.

Repeatedly downloading the same apps multiple times to update all of your iOS devices is just wrong.
 
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SmileyBlast! said:
You could plug a USB stick into an Airport Extreme. But you are right the Airport Time capsule is a more natural fit for this optimization.

Repeatedly downloading the same apps multiple times to update all of your iOS devices is just wrong.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with it? 20MB here and there is not a problem. Your ISP may even cache.
 
Curun said:
What's wrong with it? 20MB here and there is not a problem. Your ISP may even cache.
Click to expand...

20 MB is OK: But the article raises the point about a family of 4 with 6 iOS devices all loading similar apps or the same iOS update.
You devices iTunes downloads it, then your PC iTunes downloads it, then your MacBook downloads it. It's a lot of wasted bandwidth and a perfect candidate for LAN Web Caching. I'm surprised there are not more Web Caching Routers out there. Air Port Extreme and Time Capsule could break away from the pack with that feature.

Also not everyone has generous Web Access. Rural internet users are in a lot of pain over this sort of thing.
 
I don'tthink I've plugged my iPhone into my computer for an iTunes sync yet this year. After your initial setup, you don't really have to plug in your iPhone anymore these days. Even adding new music to playlists and the library is automatic thanks to iTunes Match. I go on the computer and add a new album to my library, it's automatically added to my iPhone and iPad.
 
Apple Trees said:
I don't think I've plugged my iPhone into my computer for an iTunes sync yet this year. After your initial setup, you don't really have to plug in your iPhone anymore these days. Even adding new music to playlists and the library is automatic thanks to iTunes Match. I go on the computer and add a new album to my library, it's automatically added to my iPhone and iPad.
Click to expand...

Multiple iOS users in one home with limited band width still result in Gigs of duplicate downloads. Just think of installing iWork 6 times or an IOS update 6 times.

Some web caching would really make that more efficient.
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Just read an article that makes the point that iTunes is a very wasteful way to manage iOS app installs and updates on your home network.

The article also points out a way for :apple: to gracefully fix the problem.
http://www.buyingiphones.com/2014/02/10/ios-has-a-big-problem-itunes/

Do you agree?
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The article says app update caching isn't available. It is. We enable it for every school we sell to. Download once and push it out. Very VERY misinformed article.

For non businesses? Turn auto download off. Simple.
 
179202 said:
The article says app update caching isn't available. It is. We enable it for every school we sell to. Download once and push it out. Very VERY misinformed article.

For non businesses? Turn auto download off. Simple.
Click to expand...

Wait What?
Turn auto download off from where?
Push out apps how?

With Apple hardware or with a third party proxy?

How do you do this? I really need a low budget solution to prevent multiple downloads to my iOS devices.
Is that school solution available for home office / small office?
Thanks!
Also;
The article does not say that App web caching is not available for schools and businesses.
It says that Airport Extremes and Time Capsules should provide it.
 
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I never connect to itunes, last time I did was to update to ios7. I don't see what the problem is either, with iTunes 11 you can drag and drop music now and anything else from your library. No idea why you would want to organize your apps with a computer either rather than on the phone itself.
 
ApfelKuchen said:
Preferences > Store > Automatic Downloads
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Hmm. So doing that allows all the iOS devices you have to get one copy of the iWork .ipa files from your local LAN network storage rather than re-downloading them from the Apple App. Store?

Does your school use a Web Proxy that implements WCCP web caching?
Does it use dedicated hardware like the Cachebox100?

You are not telling me the complete solution. :confused:

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escdrift said:
I never connect to itunes, last time I did was to update to ios7. I don't see what the problem is either, with iTunes 11 you can drag and drop music now and anything else from your library. No idea why you would want to organize your apps with a computer either rather than on the phone itself.
Click to expand...

If you are one person with unlimited internet bandwidth and 1 or 2 iOS devices then you don't have a problem. If you have a house with 6 or more iOS devices, then all of them going to the Apple App. Store to download the same apps really eats into your Data Quota.

Apple should provide and App. Caching Solution and could with its Airport Time Capsules.
I think that is the point of the article.
 
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There was a rumor that :apple: was internally testing this iOS updates web caching feature for the next generation of Airport Time Capsules.

I wonder why it has not happened yet?
 
One copy of iTunes can download apps and everyone sync to it, or Home Share the apps to the other iTunes installs. Someone with a new 10GB AT&T plan may take advantage of the 120GB per year which is 46GB more than his estimate.

The article seems to be a solution in search of a problem. If you don't have a good pipe then don't immerse yourself into a data buffet and manage your resources. Endless "what if" scenarios are tedious.
 
PNutts said:
One copy of iTunes can download apps and everyone sync to it, or Home Share the apps to the other iTunes installs. Someone with a new 10GB AT&T plan may take advantage of the 120GB per year which is 46GB more than his estimate.

The article seems to be a solution in search of a problem. If you don't have a good pipe then don't immerse yourself into a data buffet and manage your resources. Endless "what if" scenarios are tedious.
Click to expand...

Actually, the strain that iOS devices are putting on networks is a real problem. Mobile Enterprise server software is being sold to help manage it. I know small business network administrators who are concerned about it. Home owners in rural areas with less than optimal internet connections are definitely concerned about it.

It would be good to see :apple: provide an answer with a software update to the Airport Time Capsule. They've been rumoured to be testing it internally. I wonder why it is not a feature in the product yet?

Anyone know of a cheap web caching proxy server solution under $100?
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Actually, the strain that iOS devices are putting on networks is a real problem. Mobile Enterprise server software is being sold to help manage it. I know small business network administrators who are concerned about it. Home owners in rural areas with less than optimal internet connections are definitely concerned about it.

It would be good to see :apple: provide an answer with a software update to the Airport Time Capsule. They've been rumoured to be testing it internally. I wonder why it is not a feature in the product yet?

Anyone know of a cheap web caching proxy server solution under $100?
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I understand with every response you see a real issue and support the concept. We get it. Enterprise solutions don't scale to mom and pop. I don't buy that this is the huge problem it's made out to be and Apple must respond. If they do, cool. But a network can be managed or not and data usage can be managed or not. These generic scary low and slow data scenarios all have other solutions available.
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Hmm. So doing that allows all the iOS devices you have to get one copy of the iWork .ipa files from your local LAN network storage rather than re-downloading them from the Apple App. Store?

Does your school use a Web Proxy that implements WCCP web caching?
Does it use dedicated hardware like the Cachebox100?

You are not telling me the complete solution. :confused:

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Click to expand...


I was answering your question about how to turn off automatic downloads. You quoted 179202, who said, "For non businesses? Turn auto download off. Simple." You asked how, I gave you the answer for non-businesses (which includes schools in this context - I don't work at a school, you're confusing me with someone else). Non-businesses use iTunes.

If it was necessary to download just one copy of iWork .ipa files for installation on all my iOS devices? Piece of cake, in the home environment:

1) Turn off Automatic Downloads in iTunes Preferences on the computer, and in iTunes & App Store settings on the iOS devices
2) Enable appropriate Restrictions on the kids' iOS devices
3) Purchase and download the app on the computer
4) Sync all iOS devices to that same computer

Similar story for iOS ipsw files, though there's currently no way to restrict over-the-air downloads of updates.

Bandwidth conserved, end of story.

If the discussion is not about conserving bandwidth, it must be about a server-based replacement for Apple software. Sorry, I'm not competent to contribute to that conversation, but "WCCP on AirPort Extreme and Time Capsule" sounds good to my under-educated ear.

Perhaps I should note that iTunes Home Sharing exists and does not require AirPort Extreme or Time Capsule. Downside? It only serves-up media files, not apps. "Dear Apple, please add apps and iOS updates to Home Sharing." Life would also be nicer if Home Sharing also managed iOS backups, and allowed shared, concurrent access to iPhoto/Aperture libraries...

After that, there's just the peer-network sharing vs. free-standing media server debate. One, of course, requires no additional hardware, but has potential negative impact on the host's performance. If Apple's interest is in widespread adoption of a sticky feature, then a free-standing media server should be an option, rather than a requirement.

Now, none of this addresses the premise that Apple is insufficiently green. Yeah, iTunes Radio, iCloud backups, Photo Stream... it probably costs more energy to do that via the internet than to sync to your home computer. (If you never leave home, do you really need the cloud?) It may cost less energy to view a Blu-ray at home than to stream Netflix. Less to read a book than to watch TV. Less to read by daylight than by electric light/oil lamp/candle. Less to tell a story than to print a book...
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Wait What?
Turn auto download off from where?
Push out apps how?

With Apple hardware or with a third party proxy?

How do you do this? I really need a low budget solution to prevent multiple downloads to my iOS devices.
Is that school solution available for home office / small office?
Thanks!
Also;
The article does not say that App web caching is not available for schools and businesses.
It says that Airport Extremes and Time Capsules should provide it.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply.

On the iPad, turn off automatic app downloads and automatic updates in the App Store settings. Turn off music, videos and books whilst you're there. Install Mac OS X Server from the App Store on your main mac. Turn on caching (there's a tutorial in the app that enables you to do this). On iTunes, enable automatic updates and automatic downloads.

At most, you'll then be downloading an app twice from an outside source. Once to the device that requests it, once to iTunes (since it's automatically downloading the apps requested on the account it's logged in to).The rest will just get them from the server. Nice, huh? Low cost too since the server software is so cheap. :)

If you want to wirelessly push out apps from the mac to the iDevices rather than requesting them from each device, just use Apple Configurator too. Made to control and set up groups of iPads. Very handy and it's free. It's on the Mac App Store.
 
ApfelKuchen said:
If it was necessary to download just one copy of iWork .ipa files for installation on all my iOS devices? Piece of cake, in the home environment:

1) Turn off Automatic Downloads in iTunes Preferences on the computer, and in iTunes & App Store settings on the iOS devices
2) Enable appropriate Restrictions on the kids' iOS devices
3) Purchase and download the app on the computer
4) Sync all iOS devices to that same computer

Similar story for iOS ipsw files, though there's currently no way to restrict over-the-air downloads of updates.

Bandwidth conserved, end of story.
...
Click to expand...

Thanks ApfelKuchen!

Very useful info here. The Apple philosophy has been, "It just works."
Right now to manage their bandwidth, there would be some work to do for people who may not be so knowledgable. At least they may find an answer here and on similar forums.

It would be cool if the Airport Time Capsule "Just worked" and saved us from big redundant downloads though by its mere operation.

Thanks again.

----------
179202 said:
Sorry for the late reply.

On the iPad, turn off automatic app downloads and automatic updates in the App Store settings. Turn off music, videos and books whilst you're there. Install Mac OS X Server from the App Store on your main mac. Turn on caching (there's a tutorial in the app that enables you to do this). On iTunes, enable automatic updates and automatic downloads.

At most, you'll then be downloading an app twice from an outside source. Once to the device that requests it, once to iTunes (since it's automatically downloading the apps requested on the account it's logged in to).The rest will just get them from the server. Nice, huh? Low cost too since the server software is so cheap. :)

If you want to wirelessly push out apps from the mac to the iDevices rather than requesting them from each device, just use Apple Configurator too. Made to control and set up groups of iPads. Very handy and it's free. It's on the Mac App Store.
Click to expand...

Thanks 179202!
Awesome info! This may just solve my problem.
 
SmileyBlast! said:
Thanks ApfelKuchen!

Very useful info here. The Apple philosophy has been, "It just works."
Right now to manage their bandwidth, there would be some work to do for people who may not be so knowledgable. At least they may find an answer here and on similar forums.

It would be cool if the Airport Time Capsule "Just worked" and saved us from big redundant downloads though by its mere operation.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Not that it's necessary to come to Apple's defense, but Apple is paying substantial amounts for those multiple downloads - server farms, bandwidth and electricity to serve those facilities, and media streaming farmed-out to third-party hosts. Since Apple has the goal of 100% renewable energy for each of its farms, they have every incentive to minimize the utilization of that (generally) higher-cost resource.

One of these days, iTunes will "just work" on a media server. I can't see it not happening, especially in light of the likely evolution of Apple TV and the connected home. Why should iTunes in the Cloud, iTunes Radio, and iTunes Match stream across the web when you're at home and the stuff may already be sitting on your server? Conserved bandwidth, gratification for the customer. And if your friend's media server holds content that you're entitled to use under the terms of the EULA? Seems a natural progression.

For now? There are enough tools at hand to facilitate bandwidth conservation, but like most forms of conservation, the default setting is "convenience," because for most people, it's instant gratification that had better "just work."

For the foreseeable future, iTunes as we know it - a single-computer application, intended to be the center of our iTunes media usage, is not going away. The vast majority of end-users don't have media servers, don't know why they'd want a media server, and probably don't need a media server. They have one (iTunes Home Sharing) and don't even know it. If/when they acquire a dedicated media server from Apple, it's more likely it'll be called "Apple TV," than Time Capsule (even if both devices come with that capability), and it'll "just work."
 
ApfelKuchen said:
Not that it's necessary to come to Apple's defense, but Apple is paying substantial amounts for those multiple downloads - server farms, bandwidth and electricity to serve those facilities, and media streaming farmed-out to third-party hosts. Since Apple has the goal of 100% renewable energy for each of its farms, they have every incentive to minimize the utilization of that (generally) higher-cost resource.

One of these days, iTunes will "just work" on a media server. I can't see it not happening, especially in light of the likely evolution of Apple TV and the connected home. Why should iTunes in the Cloud, iTunes Radio, and iTunes Match stream across the web when you're at home and the stuff may already be sitting on your server? Conserved bandwidth, gratification for the customer. And if your friend's media server holds content that you're entitled to use under the terms of the EULA? Seems a natural progression.

...
Click to expand...

I like your thinking. It's in Apple's best interest too, to conserve bandwidth and reduce redundant downloads to cut costs and add profit to the bottom line.

Excellent Point!
Must seem like pennies in savings compared to their current revenues though.

I'm looking at Apple Configurator.
It looks like you have to wipe the devices in order to push management profiles to them. Not sure I want to do that...

May try running a proxy server with a web cache on a cheap pc or something.
That way I only have to add a proxy address to internet settings and I get caching for free. I just wish routers did this sort of thing already. It's about time really.
 
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