Is my MBP dead?

[hajime]

Hello. I am worrying that my less than 1.5 years old SR Macbook Pro is dead. Last night, before I went to bed, I put the computer to sleep mode under leopard. When I waked up this morning, I could not wake up the computer. So, I pressed the power button continuously to force the computer to shut down. Unfortunately, when I pressed the power button again to turn on the computer, nothing appeared on the screen. No gray screen. The usual apple startup chime did not come out (not sure if it was caused by the fact that I turned off the volumn while I was working late last night). Even I pressed the "caps lock" button, the led on the key did not turn on. The LED next to the drive was on though. I did feel that the HD was spinning. I forced the computer to turn off by pressing the power button continuously and tried again several times (including pressing the power button with the option key, pressing the power button with control and command key, resetting the PRAM), same problem appeared. Then, I inserted the leopard DVD and hoped that it would boot from the disk. Unfortunately, it did not help. It seems that the computer was trying to read the DVD but nothing showed up after awhile. Now, I cannot even eject the DVD. I would like to get your advice.

1. Anybody knows what is happening? Is my MBP dead?
2. I have not backed up recently. What will happen if I take it to the
Apple Service Center? In case they are going to erase the data in
the drive, is there any way to backup the data now?

Yesterday or the day before, I installed the latest QuickTime 7.5.5 and HP printer driver through the software update option of Leopard. This is probably not the cause as I used bootcamp to switch between leopard and vista several times yesterday. There was no problem. Now, the gray screen does not even show up on the LCD screen. Even the power is on, the LCD screen seems to be off. Thanks.

 

[squeeks]

try external monitor?

your GPU might have died, theres been a lot of that the last few days, there are several other dead mbp threads on the first page, read some of those and try what people have suggested to them

 

[hajime]

try external monitor?

your GPU might have died, theres been a lot of that the last few days, there are several other dead mbp threads on the first page, read some of those and try what people have suggested to them

Thanks for the pointer. I will try external monitor later today. Could you please provide me a link on "first page"? I don't seem to find it. If it is caused by the defective GPU, I wonder what Apple is going to resolve the issue?

One point to note is that I don't use the MBP to play games. However, for the past few days, I have been conducting 3D computer simulations (more yesterday). This might have triggered the defective GPU issue.

 

[Vulcan]

Thanks for the pointer. I will try external monitor later today. Could you please provide me a link on "first page"? I don't seem to find it. If it is caused by the defective GPU, I wonder what Apple is going to resolve the issue?

One point to note is that I don't use the MBP to play games. However, for the past few days, I have been conducting 3D computer simulations (more yesterday). This might have triggered the defective GPU issue.

The front page is macrumors.com

 

[anirban]

...

2. I have not backed up recently. What will happen if I take it to the
Apple Service Center? In case they are going to erase the data in
the drive, is there any way to backup the data now?
...

Try putting your MBP in Target Disk mode and use a firewire cable to see if you can access the HDD of your MBP.

 

[hajime]

Try putting your MBP in Target Disk mode and use a firewire cable to see if you can access the HDD of your MBP.

Thanks. Is there a way to backup without another Mac? I have only a PC at home.

 

[e12a]

before we blame this on a GPU issue, constant sleep light w/ no chime or screen image could mean a dead logic board. regular macbooks can have this problem too, so please, stop defaulting to the GPU.

you can probably request the apple store to pull the drive and recover the data at a cost. Apple assumes the customer has their own backup, and probably will not do this service for free.

 

[bryng]

My MBP is in being fixed for what sounds like the same thing.

It's a dead GPU, which is on the logic board, hence a dead logic board.

 

[hajime]

try external monitor?

Thanks for the advice. I just tried. Unfortunately, nothing showed up on both the MBP LCD screen and the external monitor. Together with the symptoms mentioned in the original post, does that mean the MBP is pretty much dead? If it was caused by the defective GPU, how come there are other problems (e.g. cannot eject DVD, LED on cap lock key is always off, no chime [I turned off the speaker before I put it to sleep mode] nor gray screen)? Could it be that the GPU burned other parts of the motherboard? I don't recall the fan was working hard (no loud fan noise) before I put the machine to sleep. Also, it was located just below the air conditioner.

I don't have another Mac to backup the MBP using Target Disk mode. Is there anyway to backup and erase sensitive data before I send it for service?

 

[MowingDevil]

Sounds like your problem is not the GPU then, sorry.

 

[e12a]

you say you did a PRAM reset, that would reset the volume setting and allow you to hear the chime. But since that did not work, a logic board replacement is in order.

again, it still doesnt mean its the GPU. Could be corrupted firmware.

if you dont have another mac, you can pull the drive out and use a USB adapter. With your windows pc download HFS Explorer, which would allow you to read the drive. Or you can let apple do it for you or a service center but it wont be free.

 

[hajime]

you say you did a PRAM reset, that would reset the volume setting and allow you to hear the chime. But since that did not work, a logic board replacement is in order.

again, it still doesnt mean its the GPU. Could be corrupted firmware.

if you dont have another mac, you can pull the drive out and use a USB adapter. With your windows pc download HFS Explorer, which would allow you to read the drive. Or you can let apple do it for you or a service center but it wont be free.

I tried to reset the PRAM again but it did not work. From the sympotoms mentioned in the original post, it seems that the interface between the keyboard and the motherboard is also not functioning. I also noticed that even after I turned on the MBP, the LED under the big apple logo was not on. This does not look good.....

 

[hajime]

What are we going to do with Apple?

I sent my MBP to the service center today. I showed the guy my computer. Before I completed my story, the guy already told me that he knew what is going on with my laptop. He said that he has seen enough of this and all MBPs are subject to the same GPU problem. He told me that it would take 7-10 days to repair my computer as they have to get a new motherboard from another country. I mentioned that some guys have their motherboards replaced 3-4 times. He just smiled.

So, as another member mentioned, I guess the MBPs are like time bombs. Sooner or later they may fail due to the faulty GPU problem alone. As of today, any statement from Apple in regard to how to deal with this issue? I personally do not want to have the motherboard replaced over and over again. I have Apple Care but it will expire in two years. If they only exhange a new motherboard with the same faulty GPU, I probably will have the same problem again after the expiration.

 

[squeeks]

I have Apple Care but it will expire in two years. If they only exhange a new motherboard with the same faulty GPU, I probably will have the same problem again after the expiration.

well then you should be able to at least get one more replacement out of them before then

but no apple has said nothing about any plans to do ANYTHING about the faulty GPUs, according to an e-mail one user got from apple they think the gpus are "fine"

 

[MowingDevil]

The way it looks there might have to be a class action lawsuit to get any serious response. Until that happens it looks like the game plan is to just replace motherboard after motherboard until everyone is out of AppleCare & warranty.
Without a lawsuit they are scott free.

If nVidia isn't going to seriously address this issue then Apple is apparently just going to play dumb.

 

[MAcNIAC]

my MBP behaved the same way - was found to have a dead RAM slot. took RAM out of the affected slot and it booted normally. Upgraded remaining slot to 2 gig RAM - cant tell the difference in normal use - not happy though

 

[Abstract]

If someone should be held responsible for the GPU issue, it's the manufacturer of the GPU, not Apple.

And several companies are pressuring Nvidia (it's them, no?) to soak up the blame, and the expense of replacing them all. It's not as though only Apple's specific hardware configuration is causing this. Since many companies are affected, it means this is Nvidia's fault, and nothing is going to be done about this until computer manufacturers have all settled with Nvidia regarding this. Otherwise, what do you honestly expect Apple to do other than to replace your motherboard again and again?

 

[MowingDevil]

Hang on a second here, Apple can't play hot potato with this. Apple markets & sells a product, they have to be responsible for this. Its up to APPLE to deal w/ nVidia and make them own up to their specific responsibilities. We gave our money to APPLE not nVidia....Apple gave their money to nVidia. As far as the consumer is concerned this began & ends w/ Apple alone.

 

[Habusho]

If you can boot into an external monitor. There is a very handy apple hardware test on your MBP install disk 1. Just restart holding the D key. This will run a test on your hardware including your memory.

 

[Abstract]

Hang on a second here, Apple can't play hot potato with this. Apple markets & sells a product, they have to be responsible for this. Its up to APPLE to deal w/ nVidia and make them own up to their specific responsibilities. We gave our money to APPLE not nVidia....Apple gave their money to nVidia. As far as the consumer is concerned this began & ends w/ Apple alone.

I never disputed that Apple customers don't deal with Apple on this issue, as you can't go to Nvidia with this problem and hope they fix your laptop.

I'm saying that the blame for the video card should go to Nvidia, as this is a worldwide laptop issue affecting numerous brands, Apple being one of them.

Furthermore, Apple IS dealing with it. They're replacing the motherboards and holding up their end of the deal (i.e. the warranty). They've done exactly what they're supposed to do. So from your complaint of Apple (and I'm not actually sure I actually understand it....), you want Apple to fix this Nvidia graphics card issue. Perhaps you want Apple to analyse the components and fix Nvidia's card better than Nvidia can, which assumes that Apple engineers know Nvidia's products better than they do. Or perhaps you want Apple to deal with Nvidia and get this sorted out as soon as possible, which is what Apple and every other computer maker under the sun is doing at this very moment.

So Apple is doing everything they're supposed to be doing, and this isn't making you happy.

The only solution is time, really....

 

[MowingDevil]

I never disputed that Apple customers don't deal with Apple on this issue, as you can't go to Nvidia with this problem and hope they fix your laptop.

I'm saying that the blame for the video card should go to Nvidia, as this is a worldwide laptop issue affecting numerous brands, Apple being one of them.

Furthermore, Apple IS dealing with it. They're replacing the motherboards and holding up their end of the deal (i.e. the warranty). They've done exactly what they're supposed to do. So from your complaint of Apple (and I'm not actually sure I actually understand it....), you want Apple to fix this Nvidia graphics card issue. Perhaps you want Apple to analyse the components and fix Nvidia's card better than Nvidia can, which assumes that Apple engineers know Nvidia's products better than they do. Or perhaps you want Apple to deal with Nvidia and get this sorted out as soon as possible, which is what Apple and every other computer maker under the sun is doing at this very moment.

So Apple is doing everything they're supposed to be doing, and this isn't making you happy.

The only solution is time, really....

For starters thats absurd so I don't know why you'd put that here. What Apple is doing is replacing motherboards w/ the exact same GPU. How is that fixing anything? Around and around we go on the nVidia merry-go-round.

Just how is Apple "dealing with it"? Do you know something that the rest of don't? Absolutely NOTHING on this issue has been addressed by Apple to the public. They know about it but have said nothing. They're simply dealing w/ it on a case by case basis. Whats going to happen when the warranties have run out? I'd like to think they'd still replace any issues related to this but they haven't said anything and aren't legally obligated to do so. I've spoken to people at Apple stores & all they'll say is "Apple would never put faulty components into their products." Nice, so is that the company line on the matter? Probably not but its what their employees are telling prospective buyers who are concerned about the issue.

All I'd like to hear is that they are aware of this issue and are doing SOMETHING to sort it out and will resolve any issues. Without addressing the issue I know I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was about to run out of ApplesCare. I know Apple would most likely do the right thing but it would still be better to hear it.

Time is a solution for the laptop manufacturers not the consumer who will be left with a computer that doesn't work and no warranty. This has been an issue for over a year now and nVidia isn't even owning up to how broad this problem might be.

 

[e12a]

didn't Nvidia already revise their chips? I would suppose they would be installed on logic boards from now on..

 

[panzer06]

didn't Nvidia already revise their chips? I would suppose they would be installed on logic boards from now on..

According to their SEC filing they have corrected the issue, however, members here have been reporting failures of new 2 & 3 month old systems which would suggest there may be problems with the newer builds as well.

I believe it is this uncertainly and the silence from Apple that concerns most MR members.

Cheers,

 

[MowingDevil]

Actually what I think that means is the old GPUs are already in the system. Buying a new MBP...how do you know when it was built? How long ago did nVidia fix the issue? ...what did they do w/ all the bad GPUs, chuck em or just mix & match? There was talk of that having happened. If they would release serial numbers/lot info there would be a way to find out if yours was in the bad batch(s) or in the fixed ones. Then there's the issue of all the GPUs that Apple has received from them which are already on logic boards. ...it could take awhile before the old batches are sold and the fixed ones hit the market.

If you buy one today, when would it have been manufactured? Would that guarantee that you wouldn't get the bunk GPU? I'm not sure.

If nVidia and Apple would come out & address the issue then there would be a lot less doubt & speculation. This is getting to be alot like Area 51...the more they say nothing the more reason there is to believe the rumours might just be true.

 

[hajime]

Actually what I think that means is the old GPUs are already in the system. Buying a new MBP...how do you know when it was built? How long ago did nVidia fix the issue? ...what did they do w/ all the bad GPUs, chuck em or just mix & match? There was talk of that having happened. If they would release serial numbers/lot info there would be a way to find out if yours was in the bad batch(s) or in the fixed ones. Then there's the issue of all the GPUs that Apple has received from them which are already on logic boards. ...it could take awhile before the old batches are sold and the fixed ones hit the market.

If you buy one today, when would it have been manufactured? Would that guarantee that you wouldn't get the bunk GPU? I'm not sure.

If nVidia and Apple would come out & address the issue then there would be a lot less doubt & speculation. This is getting to be alot like Area 51...the more they say nothing the more reason there is to believe the rumours might just be true.

These are very good questions.

By the way, I just picked up my MBP. The girl at the service center told me that the problems were caused by the defective GPU. She told me that
they replaced the motherboard with a new one. I asked her if the new motherboard has the same defective GPU, she was not able to answer.

Is ther any way to find out if the new motherboard has a defective-free GPU? I heard that some video problems could be fixed with the 10.5.5 update. How about this GPU problem? I am trying to decide whether to keep the laptop or sell it. Thanks.