Is retinaMBP really cheaper than classicMBP?

[sofianito]

Taking into account the cost of retina panel, the cost of R&D,...etc I still don't understand why the price of the 2.3ghz rMBP Base model is the same as the 2.6ghz cMBP...

The cost of manufacturing a new product that includes a new design (thiner), new technologies (retina panel, flash ssd, better airflow, battery... whatever else I missed to enumerate in the rMBP model) should normally be higher than a legacy one (cMBP).

Don't tell me that 0.3ghz cpu speed difference increases that much the cost of the cMBP!

What's the trick here? Could someone objective with common sense explain what's going on with Apple prices?

 

[katmeef]

Taking into account the cost of retina panel, the cost of R&D,...etc I still don't understand why the price of the 2.3ghz rMBP Base model is the same as the 2.6ghz cMBP...

The cost of manufacturing a new product that includes a new design (thiner), new technologies (retina panel, flash ssd, better airflow, battery... whatever else I missed to enumerate in the rMBP model) should normally be higher than a legacy one (cMBP).

Don't tell me that 0.3ghz cpu speed difference increases that much the cost of the cMBP!

What's the trick here? Could someone objective with common sense explain what's going on with Apple prices?

I'd imagine they are pushing us towards the Rmbp by pricing it substantially less
than an equivalently specced cmbp.

 

[Dangerous Theory]

You could look at it two ways:

1) Apple are willing to take a hit to profits (not a loss, just thinner margins) on the MBP(R) so they can more reasonably price it
1) Apple are keeping the original MBP prices inflated considerably above what they're worth (for reasons I don't know)

 

[zerotiu]

Taking into account the cost of retina panel, the cost of R&D,...etc I still don't understand why the price of the 2.3ghz rMBP Base model is the same as the 2.6ghz cMBP...

The cost of manufacturing a new product that includes a new design (thiner), new technologies (retina panel, flash ssd, better airflow, battery... whatever else I missed to enumerate in the rMBP model) should normally be higher than a legacy one (cMBP).

Don't tell me that 0.3ghz cpu speed difference increases that much the cost of the cMBP!

What's the trick here? Could someone objective with common sense explain what's going on with Apple prices?

You cannot underestimate R&D cost : http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AAPL

better screen, better fan, thinner design, better heat management deserve higher price. Also don't forget about market.

New products and price can cover another part of market.

 

[optics261]

Taking into account the cost of retina panel, the cost of R&D,...etc I still don't understand why the price of the 2.3ghz rMBP Base model is the same as the 2.6ghz cMBP...

The cost of manufacturing a new product that includes a new design (thiner), new technologies (retina panel, flash ssd, better airflow, battery... whatever else I missed to enumerate in the rMBP model) should normally be higher than a legacy one (cMBP).

Don't tell me that 0.3ghz cpu speed difference increases that much the cost of the cMBP!

What's the trick here? Could someone objective with common sense explain what's going on with Apple prices?

Not making sense... are you comparing just whatever base configurations are shown on the screens? Because, yes, you CAN make a cMBP cheaper than a rMBP, but with the equal config, its not cheaper:


The lowest rMBP you can get is 2.3GHz Quad 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD. This is $2199. Just to be 100% equal, lets throw a superdrive in there so is +$79*= $2278

A cMBP with 2.3 Ghz Quad and 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD is $2399.00.

So, yes, its cheaper and this R&D stuff is not really relevant.

 

[sofianito]

You could look at it two ways:

1) Apple are willing to take a hit to profits (not a loss, just thinner margins) on the MBP(R) so they can more reasonably price it
1) Apple are keeping the original MBP prices inflated considerably above what they're worth (for reasons I don't know)

1) Knowing they would surely sell high volumes of retina, they probably negotiated a lower price with LG Displays.

2) If Apple are inflating the cMBP prices for whatever reasons, where is then the freedom of choice? They are co-actioning people to move to another selling/manufacturing model where they hope to get higher margins...

 

[sofianito]

Not making sense... are you comparing just whatever base configurations are shown on the screens? Because, yes, you CAN make a cMBP cheaper than a rMBP, but with the equal config, its not cheaper:


The lowest rMBP you can get is 2.3GHz Quad 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD. This is $2199. Just to be 100% equal, lets throw a superdrive in there so is +$79*= $2278

A cMBP with 2.3 Ghz Quad and 8GB RAM and a 256 GB SSD is $2399.00.

So, yes, its cheaper and this R&D stuff is not really relevant.

I think you didn't get my point...

The cost of manufacturing of all those new and fancy revolutionary technologies and design that rMBP comes with should logically be higher than the cMBP one... And yes Sir, R&D counts!

Anyway throw also an Ethernet and FireWire adapter...

 

[katmeef]

I think you didn't get my point...

The cost of manufacturing of all those new and fancy revolutionary technologies and design that rMBP comes with should logically be higher than the cMBP one... And yes Sir, R&D counts!

Anyway throw also an Ethernet and FireWire adapter...

don't forget the base 15 cmbp only has 512mb VRAM. If you spec the midrange 15 cmbp (1gb vram) against the midrange Rmbp there's an even larger difference.

 

[Dangerous Theory]

1) Knowing they would surely sell high volumes of retina, they probably negotiated a lower price with LG Displays.

2) If Apple are inflating the cMBP prices for whatever reasons, where is then the freedom of choice? They are co-actioning people to move to another selling/manufacturing model where they hope to get higher margins...

1)Yeah, they will of course have negotiated lower prices, but not as low as the original MBP. The R&D costs will be very high. I don't think for a second the MBP(R) is more profitable per sale than the original, at the moment.

2) I don't know. I guess they figured there's still a lucrative market for the original design, so they may as well keep costs high. Remember, it's the upgrades to the base 15" that make it more expensive than the MBP(R). Apple have never really made much sense with their premium upgrade prices.

 

[d00d]

Of course you're letting Apple's inflated cost for SSD in the cMBP obscure the real price difference. $500 for a 256GB SSD? Yeah right. Hell, the same thing is $100 cheaper in the upper tier cMBP (still overpriced by double).

 

[optics261]

I think you didn't get my point...

The cost of manufacturing of all those new and fancy revolutionary technologies and design that rMBP comes with should logically be higher than the cMBP one... And yes Sir, R&D counts!

Anyway throw also an Ethernet and FireWire adapter...

yeah i'm not getting you... R&D is spread across the co and product line in general... its not necessarily ever directly related to a particular product in terms of its effect on price. The real heavy lifting R&D for ultra hi-res ips displays was largely accomplished with the iPhone and iPad screens.. this was a natural move.

so what I don't get is...
are you complaining about why the rmbp matches the cmbp so closely, and that it should be more?

Or are you saying that cmbp should be cheaper?

Or are you saying that the rmbp is more expensive than the cmbp?

 

[sofianito]

yeah i'm not getting you... R&D is spread across the co and product line in general... its not necessarily ever directly related to a particular product in terms of its effect on price. The real heavy lifting R&D for ultra hi-res ips displays was largely accomplished with the iPhone and iPad screens.. this was a natural move.

so what I don't get is...
are you complaining about why the rmbp matches the cmbp so closely, and that it should be more?

Or are you saying that cmbp should be cheaper?

Or are you saying that the rmbp is more expensive than the cmbp?

You are clearly underestimating rMBP R&D efforts... rMBP screen size is totally a different beast.

What about the following points:

* SSD flash, which apparently has higher cost to manufacture than SSD disks.
* New airflow design.
* New battery.
* New thiner design.
* Speakers' quality and two microphones.

In my opinion the cMBP price is inflated compared to what brings the new rMBP, but I am asking the wisdom of the crowd to have different opinions and perspectives...

 

[katmeef]

In my opinion the cMBP price is inflated compared to what brings the new rMBP, but I am asking the wisdom of the crowd to have different opinions and perspectives...

It might be easier to justify axing the cmbp line if they can show a huge preference to the retina model in terms of sales. Pricing as they are would certainly help shift sales to retina if that's what they want.

 

[unibility]

this thread is giving me a headache.

 

[sofianito]

this thread is giving me a headache.

Take the red pill...

 

[optics261]

You are clearly underestimating rMBP R&D efforts... rMBP screen size is totally a different beast.

What about the following points:

* SSD flash, which apparently has higher cost to manufacture than SSD disks.
* New airflow design.
* New battery.
* New thiner design.
* Speakers' quality and two microphones.

In my opinion the cMBP price is inflated compared to what brings the new rMBP, but I am asking the wisdom of the crowd to have different opinions and perspectives...

oh ok you are asking why the cMBP gets priced to be more equal or more expensive than the rMBP... well the only way it becomes to be equal or inflated is through upgrades. if you don't add upgrades you *can* get a cMBP for much cheaper than a rmbp..

also like i said r&d costs are spread across the entire company and doesn't have to be directly tied to a particular product.

finally, remember the iPad 3 has a 2048 x 1536 pixels.. rMBP screen is a matter of scale, not of inventing from scratch.

as far as the other innovations in the rMBP, they are certainly all put together to make an impressive product but it can't directly tie to '$200' on the price of the macbook.

 

[jamezr]

It might be easier to justify axing the cmbp line if they can show a huge preference to the retina model in terms of sales. Pricing as they are would certainly help shift sales to retina if that's what they want.

yes..... In the next hardware refresh Apple will exclude the internal optical drive on all the MBPs. They will point to the sales of the cheaper retina MBP as the reason.

 

[macjonny1]

Seems to be the way Apple is moving, away from optical media and charging a premium for it.

 

[cmChimera]

Seems to be the way Apple is moving, away from optical media and charging a premium for it.

Yeah. Besides being thinner(due to the removal of the crucial optical drive), the retina MBP has NO advantages over the regular Macbook Pro.

 

[mageus]

Of course you're letting Apple's inflated cost for SSD in the cMBP obscure the real price difference. $500 for a 256GB SSD?

Actually, when comparing aftermarket upgrades, the rMBP is still a better deal:

15" uMBP $1800
hi-res screen $100
256GB SSD $190 (Sammy 830 @ Newegg couple weeks ago)
8GB RAM $50
DP->DVI/HDMI adapter $10
= $2150

15" RMBP $2200
USB DVD (aftermarket) $30
Spare 500Gb HD $70
= $2300

So, for $150 you get
- Retina screen
- small form factor

With edu discount it's only a $50 difference.

Not a bad deal.

 

[Slivortal]

Yeah. Besides being thinner(due to the removal of the crucial optical drive), the retina MBP has NO advantages over the regular Macbook Pro.

SSD, which Apple apparently thinks it's worth charging through the nose for (just try upgrading through their site). And the screen is an improvement - whether you like it or not, it's definitely a step "forward".

 

[cmChimera]

SSD, which Apple apparently thinks it's worth charging through the nose for (just try upgrading through their site). And the screen is an improvement - whether you like it or not, it's definitely a step "forward".

I was being sarcastic.

 

[d00d]

Actually, when comparing aftermarket upgrades, the rMBP is still a better deal:

15" uMBP $1800
hi-res screen $100
256GB SSD $190 (Sammy 830 @ Newegg couple weeks ago)
8GB RAM $50
DP->DVI/HDMI adapter $10
= $2150

15" RMBP $2200
USB DVD (aftermarket) $30
Spare 500Gb HD $70
= $2300

So, for $150 you get
- Retina screen
- small form factor

With edu discount it's only a $50 difference.

Not a bad deal.

If you're going down to that level of detail, might as well add the Ethernet to thunderbolt adapter. You're basically saying what I was though, the cMBP is still cheaper. Is the retina worth the price differential? I'm thinking so (still on the fence, waiting for ML release), but that doesn't make the rMBP actually cheaper, just means it has a better value proposition (which ends up being subjective anyway).

 

[gentlefury]

Taking into account the cost of retina panel, the cost of R&D,...etc I still don't understand why the price of the 2.3ghz rMBP Base model is the same as the 2.6ghz cMBP...

The cost of manufacturing a new product that includes a new design (thiner), new technologies (retina panel, flash ssd, better airflow, battery... whatever else I missed to enumerate in the rMBP model) should normally be higher than a legacy one (cMBP).

Don't tell me that 0.3ghz cpu speed difference increases that much the cost of the cMBP!

What's the trick here? Could someone objective with common sense explain what's going on with Apple prices?

Where are you getting your prices from?

rMBP
2.3GHz
256GB SSD
8GB RAM
2880x1800 retina display
$2199

cMBP
2.3GHz
256GB SSD
8GB RAM
1440x900 standard display
$2399

which one is cheaper again?

If you're going down to that level of detail, might as well add the Ethernet to thunderbolt adapter. You're basically saying what I was though, the cMBP is still cheaper. Is the retina worth the price differential? I'm thinking so (still on the fence, waiting for ML release), but that doesn't make the rMBP actually cheaper, just means it has a better value proposition (which ends up being subjective anyway).

nope


rMBP
2.3GHz
256GB SSD
8GB RAM
2880x1800 retina display
External Superdrive
TB - Ethernet adapter
TB - Firewire adapter
$2336

Still cheaper.

 

[d00d]

Where are you getting your prices from?

I'm not buying the SSD upgrade from Apple like a sucker, which you would know if you'd read my post before last.