Is there ever going to be a serious cad app for the OS X?

[Ezio Auditore]

I wonder if there is ever going to be a good cad program like SolidWorks or Solid Edge for the Mac.

I think there are a lot of mechanical engineers an mechanical engineering students on Mac's these day's and I think they would all want a native cad program?
It is a massive group of users, 3.5 million seats Parasolid kernel alone.

I think there is a good market for it. Hell even Apple needs a cad package to engineer there products. I doubt they use HP's or Dell's.

I think the new Mac Pro is up for the task with the hardware?

At the moment I use Autodesk Inventor with Bootcamp for my own business, but in the first place I really don't like Windows, second I want to switch to a different cad vendor because Inventor is using the DirectX kernel, since DirectX is a Microsoft product, and we all know how buggy Windows is. So why should DirectX be any different? For me it isn't and Autodesk I feel is letting me down.

So I am in the market for a new cad program, I like SolidWorks (I had a trial) but it is like al serious cad programs, Windows only. Also had a trial of Siemens NX they have a native OS X version but the interface is so inefficient and expensive that NX is not for me.

I am willing to pay between 10 and 15K (in euro's) on a good mechanical cad program (OS X native) and I bed there are a lot more like me, of course not the students, so why isn't there any good cad for OS X?
Am I not willing to pay enough?

 

[Pakaku]

Probably because they assume you're all dual-booting anyways, lol.

I wish there would be more OS X support in general for apps. Maybe someone will do as Pixelmator did to Adobe, but that's wishful thinking.

 

[boast]

At my work we just VNC into servers for working with CAD (electrical engineering CAD software), and let our giant server farms handle the load for the OS the software needs.

So people at work have macbook airs, thinkpad carbon x1, tablets, etc... And it doesn't matter, they just need a VNC program to connect. I think almost every semiconductor company does the same thing. I'm guessing it is not the same in the mechanical world?

 

[jlc1978]

Autocad

What about Autocad for Mac?

 

[Cythth]

What about Autocad for Mac?

+1 Autocad is in the app store and costs around $900 if memory serves.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

Thanks for your reply's but AutoCad is not at all on the same level of software i am talking about. I still use it sometimes though.

By the way I already know of all the cad software there is for OS X but there is non on the same level as SolidWorks or Solid Edge. It is just a open market. What my point was in starting this topic.

 

[jlc1978]

Thanks for your reply's but AutoCad is not at all on the same level of software i am talking about. I still use it sometimes though.

By the way I already know of all the cad software there is for OS X but there is non on the same level as SolidWorks or Solid Edge. It is just a open market. What my point was in starting this topic.

I doubt you will ever see OSX versions or equivalents; especially since etch market is very small and specialized. If you are a current vendor what upside is there to making an OSX version? You wind up with increased development and support costs with very little marginal revenue form increased sales. If someone needs your program then they will bite the bullet and buy the existing version. New vendors would look at what hardware is currently used and design for tag since you would only need to sell a new software investment, not sw plus hw.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Thanks for your reply's but AutoCad is not at all on the same level of software i am talking about. I still use it sometimes though.

By the way I already know of all the cad software there is for OS X but there is non on the same level as SolidWorks or Solid Edge. It is just a open market. What my point was in starting this topic.

Let me fix that for you. AutoCAD IS on the same level but not for Mac. This has never been about what Mac users want. Autodesk simply never made a big push to get into the market on the Mac side as far as I'm concerned. It was the only reason I ever really needed windows after switching.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

I doubt you will ever see OSX versions or equivalents; especially since etch market is very small and specialized. If you are a current vendor what upside is there to making an OSX version? You wind up with increased development and support costs with very little marginal revenue form increased sales. If someone needs your program then they will bite the bullet and buy the existing version. New vendors would look at what hardware is currently used and design for tag since you would only need to sell a new software investment, not sw plus hw.

It is not really a small market. If there are 1 million users on OSX, and they would all buy a license for $ 10000 then that is a lot of money the vendor makes. And I think it is more then 1 million users. For support they can sell service contracts witch the existing vendor's are already doing. If you want support and updates you pay about $ 2500 per year per license.

I think the problem is with the vendors that already sell these programs. They already have the market and they wouldn't sell extra licenses because they are already on the windows platform since there isn't competition on other platforms. Porting the software over is for them only to please their customers they already have besides from some new customers that would switch because the port to OSX.
But if there would come competition on the mac side I think they would lose a lot of customers and would be forced to port their software over.

 

[weckart]

I doubt you will ever see OSX versions or equivalents; especially since etch market is very small and specialized. If you are a current vendor what upside is there to making an OSX version? You wind up with increased development and support costs with very little marginal revenue form increased sales. If someone needs your program then they will bite the bullet and buy the existing version. New vendors would look at what hardware is currently used and design for tag since you would only need to sell a new software investment, not sw plus hw.

At that cost of software it would be cheaper for businesses to buy a dedicated Windows laptop/desktop for the Windows version that having to deal with any bugs/differences between the two versions. It sucks but businesses do not as a rule have any emotional attachment to any OS. It is all about cost and minimum disruption to business. I think software developers at this level probably think the same way.

 

[Glime]

For 2D CAD I use: Draftsight (Free)
http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight/overview/

For 3D CAD I use: Inventor Fusion (Free)
https://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/autodesk-inventor-fusion/id529580720?mt=12

 

[Ezio Auditore]

For 2D CAD I use: Draftsight (Free)
http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight/overview/

For 3D CAD I use: Inventor Fusion (Free)
https://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/autodesk-inventor-fusion/id529580720?mt=12

I use Draftsight on the mac. Nice program for 2d drawings.
Inventor Fusion has a lot of potential only Autodesk stopt developing it and they are focusing on Inventor Fusion 360 witch is in the cloud. In the cloud they are pretty far in development, (still not dare yet but it is going to be in a not to far future) problem for me is the program is so slow that I can not use it. I think it is because I live in Europe and the servers are in US. Maybe they need to work on that, I don't know.

I have my fingers crossed on Microsoft. If what I am reading is true for Windows 9 they are going to turn their back on businesses. They see only future in the cloud and are dedicated to compete with IOS and Android. So maybe Microsoft is going to push the cad vendors to make programs for other platforms.
I say go Microsoft.

 

[EdwardC]

I have Draftsight on my Mac but have a dedicated Win 8.1 machine next to my Mac with AutoCAD on and only use it when I need to do a layout.

 

[jlc1978]

It is not really a small market. If there are 1 million users on OSX, and they would all buy a license for $ 10000 then that is a lot of money the vendor makes. And I think it is more then 1 million users. For support they can sell service contracts witch the existing vendor's are already doing. If you want support and updates you pay about $ 2500 per year per license.

If a vendor thought they could get a million users at $10000 per they would do an OSX app. That they don't tells me there is not a $10 billion market out there. Some numbers I've seen put the market at around $4 - 5 billion (not sure if that is all CAD or just the high end stuff); so it would seem unreasonable there is about 2.5x - 2x of market left untapped simply because there is no OSX option. More likely is there simply isn't enough ROI to justify creating such a product and then trying to edge out entrenched vendors.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

If a vendor thought they could get a million users at $10000 per they would do an OSX app. That they don't tells me there is not a $10 billion market out there. Some numbers I've seen put the market at around $4 - 5 billion (not sure if that is all CAD or just the high end stuff); so it would seem unreasonable there is about 2.5x - 2x of market left untapped simply because there is no OSX option. More likely is there simply isn't enough ROI to justify creating such a product and then trying to edge out entrenched vendors.

I don't know where you get your numbers from but I don't believe it is $4 - 5 billion. I think it is more. Like I said in my first post there are 3,5 million licenses sold solely to the Parasolid kernel. Parasolid is the biggest kernel but certainly not the only one.
It is a very large group and a vendor can make a lot of money only the problem is this market is not growing much since the people dat need cad already have a cad app for Windows. To make such a app a vendor needs to have deep pockets before he can begin selling and making his money back because it is very expansive to make such a program. Here is I think the biggest problem, the vendors that are already selling the cad programs are not willing to port over their program to OS X because then they have to make a lot of costs to see their own customers moving from Windows to OS X. So of course their are some new customers with it but they don't gain so much. Besides they know there is no competition on OS X so customers will settle on their program for Windows.
Maybe Apple could do it there selfs. Their pockets are deep enough and they also need cad their selfs, I say win win.

Maybe it wil be different somehow in the future, will see. For now I think i also have to suck it up and use Mickeysoft Windows, luckily I am not alone.

 

[jlc1978]

I don't know where you get your numbers from but I don't believe it is $4 - 5 billion. I think it is more. Like I said in my first post there are 3,5 million licenses sold solely to the Parasolid kernel. Parasolid is the biggest kernel but certainly not the only one.

How long has Parasolid been around? 20 years? That's only a couple of hundred K licenses per year on average. Allowing for growth, let's say they sold 400k last year. With your 10k price tag that's around a $4 billion market. Sure there are others a swell but my point still is I doubt there is an extra $10 billion lying on the table. As you point out those who need that type of capability already bought a Windows machine or workstation to run it. Getting them to go to the Mac will be hard, especially since they would have to learn a new program and probably find out all their existing work has some degree of file incompatibility issue.

Maybe Apple could do it there selfs. Their pockets are deep enough and they also need cad their selfs, I say win win.

Why should they? If they have a system that works for them why spend the money developing something just to have an in-house solution? The switching costs would far outweigh any benefit they may get.

 

[chrfr]

It is not really a small market. If there are 1 million users on OSX, and they would all buy a license for $ 10000 then that is a lot of money the vendor makes. And I think it is more then 1 million users.

Your numbers are significantly too high. There's an (estimated) installed base of about 80 million Mac users in total. 1 million users would be 1.25% of the total installed base, and there is no way that many people would buy, or even have a need for, a $10,000 CAD program.

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I don't know where you get your numbers from but I don't believe it is $4 - 5 billion.

Again, far too high. For instance, in 2012 Autodesk's total revenue was only $2.2 billion. While they aren't in the high end 3D CAD market, there are a lot of AutoCAD users.
Dassault Systemes, the owner of Solidworks made a total of just under $3 billion in 2013, and 20% of that revenue was from Solidworks.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

Your numbers are significantly too high. There's an (estimated) installed base of about 80 million Mac users in total. 1 million users would be 1.25% of the total installed base, and there is no way that many people would buy, or even have a need for, a $10,000 CAD program.

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I still think it would be around a million users because I think a lot of companies would switch from Windows to OS X. Maybe it is wishful thinking, I don't know. Maybe you are absolutely right and am I thinking to high of OS X.

Again, far too high. For instance, in 2012 Autodesk's total revenue was only $2.2 billion. While they aren't in the high end 3D CAD market, there are a lot of AutoCAD users.
Dassault Systemes, the owner of Solidworks made a total of just under $3 billion in 2013, and 20% of that revenue was from Solidworks.

$2.2 billion in 2012 alone for AutoDesk? That is even more than I thought.
Please don't read my post wrong, I never said there was a $10 billion market EXTRA than the market that already uses cad software. I said that most of the market already bought in on Windows only cad software because there is no competition for OS X.
I was more thinking of a cad vendor for OS X making $10 billion in about 10 to 15 years...
I am sorry, in my eyes that is a lot of money. am I so wrong in thinking that that is a lot of money?

 

[chrfr]

$2.2 billion in 2012 alone for AutoDesk? That is even more than I thought.

That's across all of their product lines. Most of what they sell are not CAD/CAM products.

I was more thinking of a cad vendor for OS X making $10 billion in about 10 to 15 years...
I am sorry, in my eyes that is a lot of money. am I so wrong in thinking that that is a lot of money?

It is a lot of money, just not a realistic amount for this market.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

That's across all of their product lines. Most of what they sell are not CAD/CAM products.

Yes it is. They have a couple of other programs to but most of it is cad. Not cam, that is something different than cad.
And for Desault Systemes that it is a cad only company, SolidWorks is not the only cad program they are selling. They also sell Catia.

It is a lot of money, just not a realistic amount for this market.

Do you know that a million users is a small part of the total market?
Let me also point out that mechanical engineering is not the only market segment that use cad. Take AutoDesk for example. If they ported over Inventor to OS X than they also have a market for electrical engineering and civil engineering. Revit is a small step to port over if Inventor was ported over.

 

[Macky-Mac]

CAD software that's already on the market has a such dominate position that companies that use CAD aren't going to immediately and automatically turn to some new product simply because it's a Mac based CAD program.

There used to be Mac based programs, back in the early and mid 1990s, and a few still exist serving some market segments, but the reality is that Windows and PC based programs won out. For a new Mac program to take away market share, it would have to be better than existing products in astonishing ways.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

CAD software that's already on the market has a such dominate position that companies that use CAD aren't going to immediately and automatically turn to some new product simply because it's a Mac based CAD program.

There used to be Mac based programs, back in the early and mid 1990s, and a few still exist serving some market segments, but the reality is that Windows and PC based programs won out. For a new Mac program to take away market share, it would have to be better than existing products in astonishing ways.

Yes, your absolutely right, that are the facts sadly. I still have my hopes up on Microsoft to turn this around.