Is this a Yikes or a Sawtooth, and is $100 a good deal for it?

[motulist]

I'm thinking of buying this machine.

1) Is it a sawtooth or yikes?

2) Is $100 (local pickup, so no shipping cost) a good price, normal price or bad price for this machine?

3) Given that I want it just for internet and word processing, would I be better off getting an old imac or something else?

EDIT: 4) When I google the part number "M7641" I only get weird asian apple results, is that a red flag?


Here are the specs:

---------------------------------------------------
System Profile
---------------------------------------------------
Software Overview:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| System version : Mac OS X 10.2.3 (6H60) |
| Boot volume : lucas |
| Kernel version : Darwin Kernel Version 6.3: Wed Jan 8 19:14:49 PST 2003; root:xnu/xnu-344.16.8.obj~5/RELEASE_PPC |
| User name : Power Mac G4 (powermacg4) |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hardware Overview:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Machine speed : 400 MHz |
| Bus speed : 100 MHz |
| Number of processors : 1 |
| L2 cache size : 1MB |
| Machine model : Power Mac G4 (AGP graphics) (version = 2.9) |
| Boot ROM info : 2.4f1 |
| Customer serial number : XA0222AR-HSE-ffff |
| Sales order number : M7641LL/A |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Memory Overview:
Location Type Size
DIMM0/J21 SDRAM 128 MB
DIMM1/J22 SDRAM 128 MB
DIMM2/J23 SDRAM 256 MB
DIMM3/J24 empty
Network Overview:
Built-in:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Flags : 0x8863<Up,Broadcast,b6,Running,Simplex,Multicast> |
| Ethernet address : 00.30.65.86.EB.B2 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
---------------------------------------------------
Devices and Volumes
---------------------------------------------------
PCI:
SLOT-A(AGP):
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Card Type : display |
| Card Name : ATY,Rage128Ps |
| Card Model : ATY,Rage128Pro |
| Vendor ID : 1002 |
| Device ID : 5046 |
| ROM# : 113-63001-110 |
| Revision : 0 |
| Card (Video) Memory : 16 MB |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
SLOT-C:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Card Type : Not available |
| Card Name : pci9004,7850 |
| Card Model : Not available |
| Vendor ID : 9004 |
| Device ID : 5078 |
| ROM# : Not available |
| Revision : 3 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
USB Information:
USB Bus 0:
Hub in Apple USB Keyboard:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Product ID : 4097 ($1001) |
| Vendor : Alps Electric |
| Device Speed : Full |
| Power (mA) : 500 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Apple USB Keyboard:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Product ID : 513 ($201) |
| Vendor : Alps Electric |
| Device Speed : Low |
| Power (mA) : 250 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Apple Optical USB Mouse:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Product ID : 770 ($302) |
| Vendor : Fujitsu Takamisawa Component |
| Device Speed : Low |
| Power (mA) : 100 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
USB Bus 1:
[IDE-CD R/RW 16x10A B1.5] LaCie StudioDrive USB2 :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Product ID : 514 ($202) |
| Serial Num : 11100E0003ECF1E4 |
| Vendor : LaCie |
| Device Speed : Full |
| Power (mA) : 500 |
| Disc Burning : Fully supported. |
| Device Product ID : R/RW 16x10A |
| Device Revision ID : B1.5 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
FireWire Information:
No FireWire devices found.:
Bus:
Hard Drive:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Disk Size : 9.54 GB (1K = 1024) 11 GB (1K = 1000) |
| Unit Number : 0 |
| ATA Device Type : ata |
| Device Serial : K20PZMQC |
| Device Revision : DA620XS0 |
| Device Model : Maxtor 51024U2 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
lucas:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Volume Size : 9.54 GB (1K = 1024) 11 GB (1K = 1000) |
| Ejectable : No |
| Writable : Yes |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Hard Drive:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Disk Size : 9.54 GB (1K = 1024) 11 GB (1K = 1000) |
| Unit Number : 1 |
| ATA Device Type : ata |
| Device Serial : K20K06DC |
| Device Revision : DA620XS0 |
| Device Model : Maxtor 51024U2 |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
emma:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Volume Size : 9.54 GB (1K = 1024) 11 GB (1K = 1000) |
| Ejectable : No |
| Writable : Yes |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
CD-ROM/DVD-ROM:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Unit Number : 0 |
| ATA Device Type : atapi |
| Device Serial : |
| Device Revision : 1A30 |
| Product Identification : DVD-ROM SR-8585 |
| Vendor Identification : MATSHITA |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
IOMEGA ZIP 100:
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
| Unit Number : 1 |
| ATA Device Type : atapi |
| Device Serial : |
| Device Revision : 04.H |
| Product Identification : ZIP 100 |
| Vendor Identification : IOMEGA |
| |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

[Yoursh]

The listing shows it has AGP graphics. This should make it a Sawtooth as the yikes model had only PCI graphics. $100 isn't bad if you can get a OSX disc's with it. The 512 ram it has is enough for Tiger but will run a little slow. If you already have a monitor and only plan to use it for surfing and word processing, then i'd say get it.

Edit-Also I should add that heavy flash enabled web pages will most likely run a little slow as they do on my slightly newer digital audio model. (See sig. below)

 

[iPhil]

It looks like you an AGP Graphics Power Mac G4 .. that $$ is excellent deal for what you'll be doing with it ..

 

[motulist]

The listing shows it has AGP graphics. This should make it a Sawtooth as the yikes model had only PCI graphics. $100 isn't bad if you can get a OSX disc's with it. The 512 ram it has is enough for Tiger but will run a little slow. If you already have a monitor and only plan to use it for surfing and word processing, then i'd say get it.

Edit-Also I should add that heavy flash enabled web pages will most likely run a little slow as they do on my slightly newer digital audio model.

I do have a monitor already. How exactly does the OS X disk add value (especially since it's only 10.2)?

 

[Yoursh]

I do have a monitor already. How exactly does the OS X disk add value (especially since it's only 10.2)?

Just as a backup if you need to reload the OS. Also good to wipe the thing when you get it and start with a fresh install. Saves you money down the road(one less extra thing to buy). When I got my G4 used, the original owner included the 10.2 system disc's and the 10.3 upgrade ones.

Edit-Even if it doesn't come with the discs, it's still a good buy. If you already have an extra copy of OSX then it's not an issue.

 

[motulist]

that $$ is excellent deal for what you'll be doing with it ..

But I'm not so sure it's really a great deal. When I look at ebay, I see similar models occasionally going for significantly less, though most I see are going for much more, but ebay is also full of idiots.

http://search-completed.ebay.com/se...saprchi=175&so=Show+Items&fsop=1&fsoo=2&fgtp=

This is why I hate buying used, there's so little way to gauge if you're making the right decision. When you buy new you can comparison shop to make sure you're getting a good deal and you get a warrantee so you don't have to worry. With used, if the machine breaks tomorrow, I'm pretty much SOL.

 

[localoid]

~$100 is in line with 400MHz-Sawtooths are going on swap lists. See G4 value for an idea of what they're selling on Ebay.

They're decent machines. 768MB (min.) ram seems to be the sweet spot, but 1MB is even better. PC-100/133 SDRAM isn't exacty cheap these days -- currently ~ $30 for 256MB or $60 for 512MB (new).

Add a 2X-AGP Radeon graphics card (replacing the Rage Pro), and you'd have Quartz Extreme support, and be able to run OpenGL apps like Google Earth. They're fairly cheap...

 

[Yoursh]

The biggest thing that hurts by buying one on ebay is shipping. Your most likely going to pay $30-$50+ just for that since a Powermac is a bulky item. Getting one local saves you shipping even if you pay a little more for the item itself. That's how I got my Powermac. Traded locally for an old ipod I had(~$130)

As for getting a used system, it really boils down to use vs. $$$. For web surfing and word processing this unit would be fine since they aren't going to overly tax a system like this one. If your worried about it breaking, the Powermac is the most service freindly of the mac's. All the parts are easy to access and replace. The original hard drive(20gig) in mine sounded like a jet engine when you turned the thing on. I easily replaced it with a 120 gig drive.($50) Also if it has a major issue and is unrepairable, your only out $100. For an apple system that's not a bad investment.

 

[localoid]

...This is why I hate buying used, there's so little way to gauge if you're making the right decision. When you buy new you can comparison shop to make sure you're getting a good deal and you get a warrantee so you don't have to worry. With used, if the machine breaks tomorrow, I'm pretty much SOL.

If you would decide to buy, the G3-G5 list would be a good source for help; in general, G4 Sawtooth specific, or for advice if something would break. There's also a swap list, where you can find parts.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Machine model : Power Mac G4 (AGP graphics) (version = 2.9)

Congrats, looks like a Sawtooth.

$100 is a fair price if it works, especially considering you are going to pick it up and thus get a chance to inspect it before buying. That's worth a lot in my book, considering the amount of fraud (intentional or otherwise) happening on ebay these days.

Think of it this way - for $100 plus the cost of a stick of RAM you get a Mac that can run the latest OS and makes an excellent websurfing/Office machine that can also do lots of other things.

By the way - slapping a new hard drive in it will give you a noticable boost in speed - an 80-100GB drive should be easy to find and cheap.

 

[motulist]

The biggest thing that hurts by buying one on ebay is shipping. Your most likely going to pay $30-$50+ just for that since a Powermac is a bulky item. Getting one local saves you shipping even if you pay a little more for the item itself.

Well, in terms of my price comparisons to ebay, I was including the listed price of shipping.

See G4 value for an idea of what they're selling on Ebay.

Thanks, that site really made me feel more confident about this decision. When you look through the ebay results and try to get an idea of the average price it's really hard to do since each system is slightly different in specs and condition, it's great that someone made a nice data mining app like that for ebay.

As far as adding upgrades like ram and video card, it's hard for me to picture myself doing that because I feel like it's silly to spend too much money on a machine that came out in 1999! Unless there's an incredibly worthwhile cost benefit ratio, I'll probably leave it as is. I figure if I add $60 of ram, a $50 video card, and $50 of hard drive, that would bring my total cost up to $260. At that point I might as well just buy a computer that's a few years newer and has most of those things in the stock config, but would come with a better processor, motherboard, etc.

you are going to pick it up and thus get a chance to inspect it before buying. That's worth a lot in my book, considering the amount of fraud (intentional or otherwise) happening on ebay these days.

Yeah, that's why I've never bought off of ebay. Every time I see a reasonably good deal I send the seller a couple of questions, and invariably in their replies I almost always smell a rat. Like when I was looking there for this type of Mac, I saw a good deal, and it was local pickup, so I sent the seller some questions in a 1) 2) 3) format, and he sent me back answers that didn't really answer my questions. I think it was just a generic reply he sent out to everyone that asked questions because he thought he'd approximately answer most people's questions that way without having to actually spend time on each buyer. I don't wanna deal with a guy like that because if he can't take 90 seconds to answer my questions before I commit to giving him my money, he's gonna be even less nice after I win my bid. He's just gonna want to get my money and finish the transaction so he can move on to his next deal, and not even let me inspect the merchandise or anything. No thank you! Local is the only way to go.

 

[motulist]

See, here's the type of thing that gives me pause and makes me unsure about this decision. I keep coming across these really cheap iMacs, like a 400 mhz G3 iMac DV Special Edition for $50. It makes me wonder if I need anything in the G4 tower that I won't get in a G3 imac for the purposes I'm intending it for. Would web surfing really be much slower? Would MS Word, a resource hog, really be significantly slower?

http://lowendmac.com/imacs/500.shtml

 

[CanadaRAM]

See, here's the type of thing that gives me pause and makes me unsure about this decision. I keep coming across these really cheap iMacs, like a 400 mhz G3 iMac DV Special Edition for $50. It makes me wonder if I need anything in the G4 tower that I won't get in a G3 imac for the purposes I'm intending it for. Would web surfing really be much slower? Would MS Word, a resource hog, really be significantly slower?

http://lowendmac.com/imacs/500.shtml

If you already have the monitor, the G4 is significantly faster than the iMac, and much, much easier to upgrade. Should be more reliable too, the iMacs are dropping with heat-induced circuit board failure (a consequence of putting the logic and the CRT in the same plastic bubble)

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I agree, a G4 tower is a better machine than a CRT iMac in every way, unless you really want an all-in-one.

I had a CRT iMac die on me, and it has turned me off to the all-in-ones as a result.

 

[motulist]

I told the seller I was on the fence and that if she could lower the price just a bit more it'd push me over the fence, and she lowered the price to $85! Now I can't say no, so I guess I'm buying myself a new old Mac! Thanks for the help everybody!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Excellent, if the machine is solid that's a good deal.

 

[motulist]

Dude! I'm so stoked I had to tell you all the follow up! I set this 8 year old Mac up, and the first thing I did was test full screen divx video playback, and guess what? It works flawlessly!!! I was wanting to set up a media server, but I just bought this machine to be an internet and word processor, I didn't think this ancient machine would be able to decode modern video compression formats. But it can! I can't believe how powerful and useful these 8 year old Macs are! It's so awesome! I'm gushing!

I thought I'd have to buy another newer old mac to setup as my media machine, but this single old machine is so powerful that it can be my computer for internet, word processor, video play back, audio playback, download, print station, scan station, etc. etc. and everything else station! Now I can dedicate my 1ghz powerbook to things that need portability so I don't have to constantly be plugging it in and out of the tv, stereo, scanner and everything else which'll just stay connected to the 400 mhz machine and I'll also dedicate my laptop to things that take more horse power, like music production. Of course, this machine's power has surprised me so much, is it possible that it'll be faster and more powerful in music production than my 1ghz laptop??? Could it possibly be? There's only one way to find out!

That was some of the best $85 I've ever spent!

 

[CrackedButter]

You clearly robbed the seller.

Anyway, to add to your joy. The Sawtooth has a long upgrade path a head of it if you choose to go down that road. You can get processor upgrades from sonnet and the like.

 

[pubb]

The 512 ram it has is enough for Tiger but will run a little slow.

and...

Think of it this way - for $100 plus the cost of a stick of RAM you get a Mac that can run the latest OS and makes an excellent websurfing/Office machine that can also do lots of other things.

Tiger requires a built-in Firewire connection along with a G3/4/5, 256 megs of RAM and about 4GB of disk space. I don't see anything listed under firewire...it has a firewire port, right?

Pubb

 

[Raid]

motulist, I'm glad you like the computer so far. My machine is a little newer (G4 Digital Audio @ 466Mhz with 640MB RAM), and it runs the latest version of Tiger without a hitch, I have no doubt you'll be pleased with this purchase (especially for only $85! ). You may want to consider getting about a 1GB of RAM in there to make the video decoding go smoother, I find that my machine can get bogged down when doing the heavy lifting tasks, and there's a delay opening up programs with big libraries (like iPhoto and iTunes). The more RAM you have should reduce this problem, but I think there's a sliding scale there were the extra cost of RAM doesn't translate to the extra performance. Have fun with the new toy!

~$100 is in line with 400MHz-Sawtooths are going on swap lists. See G4 value for an idea of what they're selling on Ebay.

I'm actually in a similar circumstance right now, but I'm on the selling side of things. I've got a buyer lined up, and I'd like to sell it for a more-than-fair price so that website was a great help! I see that the fair market value for the computer is $189 (I assume USD, but I not going to care much about the exchange). The thing is I would want to sell my 17" ACD (CRT) monitor with it; does anybody know how much is that monitor worth?

P.S. The monitor is in A1 shape with no colour problems or discolouration/scratches/burn-in on the plastic or screen.

 

[Silentwave]

Yes, it has a few firewire ports and supports the latest release of OS X

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Just to add an expreience - I set up a Gigabit Ethernet G4 tower for someone today, 450MHz with 576MB RAM. I was pleasantly surprised at how fast it was for web browsing and running Office.

It seems to me that Tiger runs faster on these older machines than Panther did.

Glad to hear the deal turned out well, motulist.

 

[Hemingray]

A proud Yikes owner here! Pretty sad to think the amount of money we paid for these things back in '99, and now they're going for $100? *sigh*...

 

[motulist]

You may want to consider getting about a 1GB of RAM in there to make the video decoding go smoother, I find that my machine can get bogged down when doing the heavy lifting tasks, and there's a delay opening up programs with big libraries (like iPhoto and iTunes).

Well, so far the computer has played every single video I've thrown at it without a hiccup, though I did have to enable the cache in my video player, but it adds no human observable delay, so who cares. I haven't done any heavy tasks with it yet, but I can tell you that safari definitely runs much faster on this machine than on my 1ghz laptop! It flips through tabs and flips back and forward through cached pages instantly, with zero discernable delay. But that may have a lot to do wih my new safari install here not being bogged down with a zillion bookmarks, stored history info, tons of cookies, etc. that may be clogging up my laptop's safari.

I have to say, as weird as it sounds, this machine feels faster than my 1ghz powerbook! Maybe that means I could reformat my laptop, do a clean install and reinstall all my apps from the installers to do a fair comparisson, but regardless of the relative speed, I can tell you that this old 400mhz mac feels lightening quick for standard tasks!

A proud Yikes owner here! Pretty sad to think the amount of money we paid for these things back in '99, and now they're going for $100? *sigh*...

We all know how you feel. I have an old 8500 from 1995 that still works fine. I got about 8 years of use out of it, and that's all you could ask from a computer. I've been planning to use it as an OS 9 system for some old synthesizer emulator stuff that never got ported to OS X and would run too slowly in classic, but I set the machine up a month or two ago and haven't touched it since. Oh well. Technology marches on.

It seems to me that Tiger runs faster on these older machines than Panther did.

Glad to hear the deal turned out well, motulist.

Yeah, it's turned out way better than I even imagined. I don't have 10.4, but I loaded it up to 10.3.9 and I can't imagine it responding any faster! Today I'm gonna start doing some heavier tasks and see how it responds. Do you think 10.4 speeds up the computational tasks, or just the interface? I wonder if this machine will be able to run 10.5 and if it'll make things even faster as has been the trend, or slow things down instead.


Since this machine is capable of playing video files perfectly, I want to set it up as a media server. Does anyone know of a good but cheap video card that has TV output? I could use either component out or s-video out.

 

[Super Macho Man]

Yeah, that's why I've never bought off of ebay. Every time I see a reasonably good deal I send the seller a couple of questions, and invariably in their replies I almost always smell a rat. Like when I was looking there for this type of Mac, I saw a good deal, and it was local pickup, so I sent the seller some questions in a 1) 2) 3) format, and he sent me back answers that didn't really answer my questions. I think it was just a generic reply he sent out to everyone that asked questions because he thought he'd approximately answer most people's questions that way without having to actually spend time on each buyer. I don't wanna deal with a guy like that because if he can't take 90 seconds to answer my questions before I commit to giving him my money, he's gonna be even less nice after I win my bid. He's just gonna want to get my money and finish the transaction so he can move on to his next deal, and not even let me inspect the merchandise or anything. No thank you! Local is the only way to go.

For what it's worth, in all of my eBay sales I don't think I've ever sold anything to anyone who has asked a lot of questions. I answer thoroughly and nicely and promptly, and they just never bid, or they get outbid at some low amount. It seems to me that probing questioners are usually the most hesitant about buying (and indeed, you do seem pretty hesitant about buying). So as an eBay seller, I would ask you what's in it for me in making the effort to answer your questions, when I can just as easily sell to someone who is not going to prod and probe over everything. You are making a huge deal over what is likely going to be a $10, $15 difference. I don't mean to be rude of course and I don't mean anything personal, I'm just speaking in general terms.

So you are not necessarily smelling any rats, maybe just eBay sellers who realize that taking time to answer in-depth questions usually doesn't pay off. I agree with you that local is the way to go, if possible.