Isn't early OSX objectively easier to navigate?

[mectojic]

This has been a problem with Apple since OSX Lion, and I'm amazed that it only continues to get worse.

Let's just take a basic finder window for example, running in Big Sur.

I'm immediately confused. There's no indication of what is clickable anymore, and you don't know where your mouse can click to drag around the window.
Also, this "minimalism" trend has got to stop. I bet it's really confusing for the computer illeterate. Not only did skeumorphic, 3D designs of the early OSX era look great, but they were extremely intuitive.

Look at the sidebar these days. Tiny, black-and-white icons which are basically useless. I have to rely on reading the word now to know what I'm clicking on (Downloads, Movies etc). Something else that frustrates me to no end on all modern OS's are the "recent" tabs. I don't need a recent tab, which keeps changing every time I open something new. I can remember where I save my files, thanks.

When you look at the colourful menus of Tiger with large, clear graphics telling you what you're clicking on, it's so easy to navigate. There is a weight and a realism to the menus, and that sense of depth. Nowadays, I just feel there are more barriers in the way of me trying to do things. (Also, Apple needs to stop telling me what Applications aren't trusted. I can decide, thanks. I now have to imput a bunch of terminal commands into a new Mac to just give me basic privileges again.)

What frustrates me the most about all this excessive minimalism is that it's supposed to make our lives easier. No, it's doing the exact opposite. Big Sur has now made every Application into a rounded square. Doesn't Apple realise that humans identify objects better when they are differing shapes??

Here is a challenge you can try, just to see how much more difficult Apple has made things for colourblind people. Try using Big Sur or the latest iOS in greyscale mode. It's almost impossible now. With every icon just being a single colour with flat simple designs, you cannot distinguish any of them anymore. You have to read the names of the Apps. Oh, but what's that? On the bottom "dock" of iPhones and iPads, the App names aren't even there.

This is of course personal opinion. Feel free to share your grievances too. We can't change Apple, but at least we can miss the old days.

 

[alex_free]

This has been a problem with Apple since OSX Lion, and I'm amazed that it only continues to get worse.

Let's just take a basic finder window for example, running in Big Sur.

I'm immediately confused. There's no indication of what is clickable anymore, and you don't know where your mouse can click to drag around the window.
Also, this "minimalism" trend has got to stop. I bet it's really confusing for the computer illeterate. Not only did skeumorphic, 3D designs of the early OSX era look great, but they were extremely intuitive.

Look at the sidebar these days. Tiny, black-and-white icons which are basically useless. I have to rely on reading the word now to know what I'm clicking on (Downloads, Movies etc). Something else that frustrates me to no end on all modern OS's are the "recent" tabs. I don't need a recent tab, which keeps changing every time I open something new. I can remember where I save my files, thanks.

When you look at the colourful menus of Tiger with large, clear graphics telling you what you're clicking on, it's so easy to navigate. There is a weight and a realism to the menus, and that sense of depth. Nowadays, I just feel there are more barriers in the way of me trying to do things. (Also, Apple needs to stop telling me what Applications aren't trusted. I can decide, thanks. I now have to imput a bunch of terminal commands into a new Mac to just give me basic privileges again.)

What frustrates me the most about all this excessive minimalism is that it's supposed to make our lives easier. No, it's doing the exact opposite. Big Sur has now made every Application into a rounded square. Doesn't Apple realise that humans identify objects better when they are differing shapes??

Here is a challenge you can try, just to see how much more difficult Apple has made things for colourblind people. Try using Big Sur or the latest iOS in greyscale mode. It's almost impossible now. With every icon just being a single colour with flat simple designs, you cannot distinguish any of them anymore. You have to read the names of the Apps. Oh, but what's that? On the bottom "dock" of iPhones and iPads, the App names aren't even there.

This is of course personal opinion. Feel free to share your grievances too. We can't change Apple, but at least we can miss the old days.

Apple has really turned me off in the direction of their Mac lines. The M1 is intriguing, but the fact that you can't even reinstall Mac OS on ARM macs without an internet connection is a no for me. Also, I have no interest in developing for a platform that tries it's best to not allow the user to run apps/code outside of the app store. We can still live the old days anyways, since especially PowerPC Macs are built like tanks.

 

[MBAir2010]

With every icon just being a single colour with flat simple designs, you cannot distinguish any of them anymore. You have to read the names of the Apps. Oh, but what's that? On the bottom "dock" of iPhones and iPads, the App names aren't even there.

Windows10 has the same thing i just noticed,
until i mouse over the icon i get the title of the app. like Mojave
(kinda neat!)

 

[hobowankenobi]

I will agree that the sidebar icons are useless. I don't mind that much, as I tend to read the name, not ID the icon...but, what is the point of tiny, same-looking icons? It would be a fairly easy fix if they would at least let users pick icon and text size...just like on the desktop.

Overall, the Finder has had more improvements than setbacks for me. Tabs was probably the single biggest thing. But that is no excuse for bad design decisions.

My gripes:

1. In Column view: the Finder will not open the column wide enough to read the longest item name. Seems a simple thing to make the default size the widest name...in fact, double-clicking the double vertical line handle does exactly this!

2. In Column view: if I select an item partially visible in the left-most column, the Finder window does shift/scroll over to left...so I have to manually scroll every time. Silly/Frustrating.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm still on Mojave, so I can't speak to Catalina or Big Sur.

However, my issues…1) Tags instead of Labels. I don't need colored dots, I want Labels back. And being able to add multiple colored dots doesn't help. 2) Minimum Finder window width. This changed with Lion. You have to use an Applescript now in order to size Windows down beyond a certain width.

There are a few other things but mainly these two annoy me most.

 

[MultiFinder17]

All of my production Macs are running either Mojave or High Sierra, so I can’t speak to the newest versions quite yet. Same boat as @eyoungrenI suppose

However, the biggest gripes that I have with newer versions of OS X vs. older are the lack of color in the Finder sidebar and the leaking in of Big Sur roundrect icons into older versions. I carefully set up the sidebar on every machine I use to be the same across the board, because one grey smear looks the same as the other grey smear icons there. And as apps get updated, I’ve been seeing more and more little roundrects taking hold in my Dock. Not the worst, but when many of these apps had unique icons with unique shapes and colors, it does give me a moment of pause when finding them in the dock.

 

[retta283]

Panther/Tiger have the best UX by far in my opinion. Leopard-Snow Leopard aren't bad either but I don't like some of the Finder icon changes and size changes. Lion is really when things start to go downhill and it's only gotten worse with time. Big Sur is another massive collapse in UX to me.

There's something to be said about a UI/UX that is legible, clean, recognizable, while also being non-intrusive. It should be enough that you don't need to think about the UI but when you look at it you appreciate the work that has gone into it. I feel like this was at its peak with Tiger. SL-Lion saw a loss of this but especially Mavericks-Yosemite where the 3D depth of buttons and icons is lost so it's harder to make out what's active or possible to click. Big Sur increases this tenfold.

I have had more trouble navigating Big Sur than any operating system I've used in the last 25 years. Ever since I started using NT 4 and OS 8 as my main OSes I never really felt like I was hindered by the design of any OS, even that I had preferences for certain versions' UI traits. It really makes me feel inept.

 

[AphoticD]

I kinda like the look of Big Sur... but I also liked the Platinum look of Mac OS 8 when everyone was like “Why would I want to waste screen real estate with those bulky Mac OS 8 window title bars and grabbable window frames? System 7 forever!”

I haven’t upgraded my work MBP from Catalina yet because of python / pip teething issues - Pycharm is my daily driver IDE and it runs great with Catalina. In fact it still runs great with El Capitan.

I do enjoy revisiting different iterations of Mac OS design. It’s fun go back to earlier releases to appreciate the thought that has gone into it. Even some of the weird looking versions like Panther and Lion.

I love the different “vibes” of System 7.5.x, Mac OS 8, 8.6, 9.2.x, Puma, Jaguar, Tiger, Snow Leopard, Mountain Lion, Mavericks, El Capitan, High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, now Bug Sur.

I’d say we are a bit spoilt really. Especially considering I haven’t paid for an OS Upgrade since Snow Leopard

 

[za9ra22]

There are many people, I suspect, who notably benefit from the old MacOS skeuomorphic design and the textures used in the interface. Not only did these help navigate what was already an increasingly complex operating system, and provide strong visual clues by which it was easy to firstly see, and secondly recognise, the nature of the software tools available. But also, the textures and depth made the interface more navigable, and 'friendly' - that latter being important for many, and I think a fundamental reason why Apple was consistently seen as the better platform to use for those who simply wanted a system to use rather than to tinker with.

For myself, I tried to like the increasingly sanitized interface once it changed, but it is cold and lifeless by comparison, and certainly not a welcoming place to settle in for a day of work.

The change seems like it was the result of a battle between users on one hand and design aesthetes on the other. The purists won, but users who had valued the friendly environment lost.

It is a relief to sit at my G4 iMac and get some work done, after a day of distractions and bleakness on my 27 inch iMac to work!

 

[hobowankenobi]

Long-standing pet peeve: The hide option for everything is the default.

Bad enough in Finder to hide Status Bar, Path Bar, Tool Bar, Tabs Bar...but the minimized print dialog box is brutal for new users.

At least there has been improvement though. The old print dialog Show Details button was a tiny triangle, all the way up to something like 10.8 or so.

Now it is a button labeled Show Details, not this:

Why is it on the same line with Printer?
Why so small?
Why is it the only option in the window with no name or label?


Practically an easter egg to find. I must have pointed it out to about 8000 users...

 

[mectojic]

Thanks all for your replies. @za9ra22 I particularly agree with this and meant to mention it.

I think Apple has forgotten just how important the visual design of hardware and software really is to the "casual" user. This first impression to such things can often be the reason that someone makes the switch from Windows to Mac for life (as my partner did, after I showed how convenient and sleek the 11" MacBook Air is).

I also started to wonder about the education market. Having grown up in the early 2000s, I remembered how cool it was to see our computer lab filled with iMac G3s. Since I didn't live through the 90s, I never knew a time when computers were just black boxes, so it was a shock to me when my next school had a lab full of Windows boxes, and I just wondered to myself why the boxes had to be so huge and heavy, when we had a more powerful iMac G5 at home.

Now that Apple has adopted the cold, minimal design, I doubt they are going to have that same appeal to schools, especially young kids. Young kids LOVE colours! Hell, the iMac G3 is based off gumdrop candy! And the desktop pictures of OS 9 could match the hardware with the same colours – that to me is perfect software/hardware blend.

So yes, I too really enjoy getting away from Dark Mode, minimal logos and designs, and sitting back at my iMac G4 to work. The original Pages logo alone is better than the entirety of Big Sur.

And yes, labels were so much more helpful than tags!

 

[Nermal]

Make sure you're all submitting feedback to Apple

 

[Amethyst1]

Young kids LOVE colours!

Maybe they do, but not everyone wants their computer to look like a kitsch-y toy aimed at 6-year-olds.

Hell, the iMac G3 is based off gumdrop candy

And it shows.

As far as OS X's UI is concerned, I agree with pretty much everything that's been said but Dark Mode is a godsend when working in low-light environments. Those bright white areas we had to put up with before Mojave literally burned my eyes then.

 

[mectojic]

Maybe they do, but not everyone wants their computer to look like a kitsch-y toy aimed at 6-year-olds.


And it shows.

As far as OS X's UI is concerned, I agree with pretty much everything that's been said but Dark Mode is a godsend when working in low-light environments. Those bright white areas we had to put up with before Mojave literally burned my eyes then.

I think Apple should really keep a single design language that still appeals to younger markets. Doesn't need to be radical, just imagine a modern iMac with a pretty colourful plastic shell surrounding it. Plastics are more friendly than aluminium.

I agree that Dark Mode saved my life for dark environments too. Before then I used the good old invert colours Cmd-Opt-Shift-8.

 

[Amethyst1]

[…] the leaking in of Big Sur roundrect icons into older versions.

Oh yes, I friggin' hate that. I'm not running BS and I don't want those icons.

 

[AL1630]

I think Apple should really keep a single design language that still appeals to younger markets. Doesn't need to be radical, just imagine a modern iMac with a pretty colourful plastic shell surrounding it. Plastics are more friendly than aluminium.

I agree that Dark Mode saved my life for dark environments too. Before then I used the good old invert colours Cmd-Opt-Shift-8.

I don't know if colors are as appealing anymore. They tried that with the iPhone 5C, a design that only lasted for one model cycle, and the rose/gold colors on the 12" MacBook which also bombed (though mostly for other reasons). However, I agree with everyone else that the skeumorphic design is a lot more friendly to use. Everything now just seems bland and a clone of every other system.

To me it seems like they took all the soul out of it. There's less color and the Finder icons are tiny and very similar. Everything being flat just makes using the computer a lot less fun for me. The brushed aluminum was a nice touch too.

 

[retta283]

Looking at the difference between those Finder windows is incredible. Sidebar icons in particular. Those icons in Mail look like garbage as well. Too much white space and not enough differences between the various 'panels' of the application. People hated on brushed metal, but I never minded it at least in its Tiger incarnation.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Apple has really turned me off in the direction of their Mac lines. The M1 is intriguing, but the fact that you can't even reinstall Mac OS on ARM macs without an internet connection is a no for me. Also, I have no interest in developing for a platform that tries it's best to not allow the user to run apps/code outside of the app store. We can still live the old days anyways, since especially PowerPC Macs are built like tanks.

This is true. I want to add the G4 case is built rather well. G5 also. I would be happy if M1 and PPC can play nicely in terms of UB compatibility.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I don't know if colors are as appealing anymore. They tried that with the iPhone 5C, a design that only lasted for one model cycle, and the rose/gold colors on the 12" MacBook which also bombed (though mostly for other reasons). However, I agree with everyone else that the skeumorphic design is a lot more friendly to use. Everything now just seems bland and a clone of every other system.
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To me it seems like they took all the soul out of it. There's less color and the Finder icons are tiny and very similar. Everything being flat just makes using the computer a lot less fun for me. The brushed aluminum was a nice touch too.

Because after Snow Leopard OS X became a toy OS and only now Big Sur is just as a toy as ever.. they should NEVER have combined IOS with OS X sorry, OS XI. Really, what kind of name is Big Sur ?? I prefer cat names really.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Oh yes, I friggin' hate that. I'm not running BS and I don't want those sh!tty icons!!!

I wouldn't mind changing the icons to OS 9 icons and making Big Sur look like OS 9 There, you see ? I am against M1, but for ideological reasons.

 

[alex_free]

Because after Snow Leopard OS X became a toy OS and only now Big Sur is just as a toy as ever.. they should NEVER have combined IOS with OS X sorry, OS XI. Really, what kind of name is Big Sur ?? I prefer cat names really.

The cat names are so memorable...

 

[Macbookprodude]

I'm still on Mojave, so I can't speak to Catalina or Big Sur.

However, my issues…1) Tags instead of Labels. I don't need colored dots, I want Labels back. And being able to add multiple colored dots doesn't help. 2) Minimum Finder window width. This changed with Lion. You have to use an Applescript now in order to size Windows down beyond a certain width.

There are a few other things but mainly these two annoy me most.

I have Catalina and its basically similar to Mojave.. By some miracle I got it installed on my Mac Pro and it doesn't have a metal card as those things are very expensive and I don't need that. What bothers me about Catalina is it constantly crashes.

 

[cjbriare]

It feels like there is increasingly less comfort room for power users. Early Mac OS X marketing touted the UNIX side of the platform, yet every release feels like that world was covered up more and more. There's plenty of configuration available via the CLI, but why only that? Perhaps they decided that's not a majority of their market so they don't push it, which is a shame to those that love the platform but want that hackable/enterprise grade of tech. (Remember Xserve etc?) Apple's openness to Linux virtualization seems promising to fill that hole, hopefully one day we'll have a full-blown kernel running on M1. Another thing is we can of course all agree Apple's security works most of the time very well, but being boxed in with security cushions because I'm trying to launch some sketchy program gets annoying.

 

[Amethyst1]

Everything now just seems bland and a clone of every other system

Looking at these two screenshots, if OS X still looked like Tiger today, I'd expect a cheesy wannabe-lookalike theme for e.g. GNOME/KDE to look like BS. But then, I said the same about Yosemite's design back in 2014 compared to e.g. Snow Leopard.

 

[Bluetoot-]

Let's just take a basic finder window for example, running in Big Sur.

I'm immediately confused. There's no indication of what is clickable anymore, and you don't know where your mouse can click to drag around the window.
Also, this "minimalism" trend has got to stop. I bet it's really confusing for the computer illeterate. Not only did skeumorphic, 3D designs of the early OSX era look great, but they were extremely intuitive.

I agree; I guess most of us don't notice because it's muscle memory.

I recently installed Linux Mint on a work machine (it works really well while Windows took 10 minutes to boot; unbelievable) and the Cinnamon desktop was very intuitive while still looking good. I know how to maximize windows, minimize windows, etc.

Idk I feel as if Apple is going to phase out the "windowed" environment (as we know it).