Issue with Authorized Service Provider

[Awjvail]

Hi there,

I seem to be in a bit of a predicament with an Apple authorized service provider... I dropped my MBP off to the last week - it was having issues waking from sleep, giving constant beach balls, and generally acting slow even after reformats and starting fresh. It has ended with him wanting to charge me $45 diagnostic fee because apparently he can't find anything wrong, even though there is something wrong.

The machine was brought in with 10.6 installed on it, the same operating system it came with from the factory.

Here are the emails, bold is him, italic is my response.

"Hi Alex,

I've been running a bunch of diagnostic software on your unit and so far they all passed, no issue found.
Hard Drive surface check found no bad sector, RAM test passed. Read/Write access speed are within normal range.
Disk Utility repair disk and set up permission.*
I will reinstall the OS from a disk image that I have and see what is going on. But so far nothing is out of ordinary."

"Hi there,

I appreciate the update.

Have you noticed any unusual activity when using it? Lots of wait wheels etc? Or has it been pretty normal?

Thanks
Alex"

"Hi Alex,

Good news, well sort of, I was able to recreate the issue with your computer. Even though that all tests showed the unit as being without defect, it would not boot completely and I'm unable to boot *in what we call single user mode. It gets a kernel panic. Now I do have something to work with sorry it took so long to this point but "procedures" requires me to do all the testing first with known-good system from external drive .

More to come"

"Hi there,

Were you able to make any progress today?

Thanks
Alex"

"Hi Alex,

Yes I did, I've installed Lion 10.7 on it and it works well with out any issue. No freeze or spinning beach ball. I can't get the unit to boot with 10.6 on the internal drive but it will run from an external drive (this one I can't get it). I've reinstalled 10.6 *twice on it with the same issue. 10.7 no problem. I could not find any hardware issue with your unit.

So I don't see what else I can do. I suggest that if you can come and pick up your unit (with 10.7 on it) I do have to charge you a diagnostic fee of 45$ since no covered repair was done on your unit. If you do have other issue once you install other applications on it and you need to get it check again I will not charge you the diagnostic fee if you have a problem within the next 2 months.

Regards"

"Isn't the fact that the machine will not boot on the operating system that it came from the factory with enough to have Apple cover the charge?

Alex

Sent from my iPhone"

"
Hi Alex,

I understand your concerns and your question is legitimate.*But I will have to refer you to the *Apple Limited Warranty statement (the first year of coverage does not cover software issue) here is an excerpt of the warranty documents that came with your computer (attached is the whole document ALW)

WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS WARRANTY?
This warranty does not apply to any non-Apple branded hardware products or any software, even
if packaged or sold with Apple hardware. Manufacturers, suppliers, or publishers, other than
Apple, may provide their own warranties to you but Apple, in so far as permitted by law, provides
their products "AS IS".*Software distributed by Apple with or without the Apple brand (including,
but not limited to system software) is not covered by this warranty. Please refer to the licensing
agreement accompanying the software for details of your rights with respect to its use. Apple
does not warrant that the operation of the Apple Product will be uninterrupted or error-free. Apple
is not responsible for damage arising from failure to follow instructions relating to the Apple
Product’s use. "

"I understand your predicament, and I know it is important that somebody reimburses you for your time (either Apple or I), however, if a known good operating system will install on a known good external hard drive, but will not install on the existing (possibly defective) internal hard drive, when all other variables are identical, by process of elimination, doesn't that point to the hard drive being at fault?

Existing other hardware + different harddrive + 10.6 = successful install
Existing other hardware + existing harddrive + 10.6 = unsuccessful install

You see what I'm saying?

Alex

Sent from my iPad"

Thats it so far... Sorry about the wall of text. I'm just looking for an opinion, am I wrong by saying that this is looking like a warranty covered harddrive issue, or is it a software issue that will cost me?

What course of action do I take if he refuses to budge? Does Apple have any authority in these issues? I wish I had an Apple Store nearby...

 

[redache]

Apple's warranty has to cover the Operating System and hardware sold to you and as you were using the 'factory' OS then they should be fixing it for free. It does sound like a dodgy hard drive and Lion is somehow masking the problem (no idea as to why). You should talk to Apple instead of the the ASP and see what they say before going any further .

 

[Awjvail]

Apple's warranty has to cover the Operating System and hardware sold to you and as you were using the 'factory' OS then they should be fixing it for free. It does sound like a dodgy hard drive and Lion is somehow masking the problem (no idea as to why). You should talk to Apple instead of the the ASP and see what they say before going any further .

I know this is common sense, but do you know if there is any official literature to back it up?

He says that Lion installed and is working fine, however, there is a reason I'm still running Snow Leopard...

 

[redache]

3.4 Scope of Technical Support
(i) Under APP for Mac, Apple will provide technical support for the Covered Equipment, Apple’s operating system software (“Mac OS”) and Apple-branded consumer applications pre-installed with the Covered Equipment (“Consumer Software”). Apple will also provide technical support using the graphical user interface for server administration and network management issues on Apple’s operating system server software (“Mac OS Server”) on a Mac

This is from the Apple Protection Plan Document that you can find here. They cover the product they sold you and that clearly says they cover OS X with a Mac. I don't think the ASP has much of a leg to stand on honestly, since he replaced your OS with a brand new OS you a) haven't paid for b) do not want.

 

[heisenberg123]

I know this is common sense, but do you know if there is any official literature to back it up?

He says that Lion installed and is working fine, however, there is a reason I'm still running Snow Leopard...

does the warranty actually match what he says, the part about software including system software not being covered?

or did he fudge the warranry terms just to try and scam you?

 

[redache]

does the warranty actually match what he says, the part about software including system software not being covered?

or did he fudge the warranry terms just to try and scam you?

It sounds like fudged the terms to try and scam. Apple seem to be fine with offering support of OS X to other users under warranty so I don't see how this will have changed when it comes to ASPs.

 

[Ccrew]

Tried calling Apple themselves and trying to get them involved?

 

[Awjvail]

This is from the Apple Protection Plan Document that you can find here. They cover the product they sold you and that clearly says they cover OS X with a Mac. I don't think the ASP has much of a leg to stand on honestly, since he replaced your OS with a brand new OS you a) haven't paid for b) do not want.

Thanks a lot for the info. I do not have the AppleCare, only the standard one year warranty. Does this exist in the standard policy as well?

 

[ZZ Bottom]

Apple's warranty has to cover the Operating System and hardware sold to you and as you were using the 'factory' OS then they should be fixing it for free. It does sound like a dodgy hard drive and Lion is somehow masking the problem (no idea as to why). You should talk to Apple instead of the the ASP and see what they say before going any further .

The warranty does not cover software problems. This is nothing new.

OP, could you provide additional details about what specifically you were running when the beachballing occurred. I used to work as a ACMT. In this situation I would be looking for a reason to blame the hard drive since they are usually the prime cause. BUT that being said, the Tech has to maintain integrity. If he really cannot reproduce the problems, then the most he should do procedurally is to install the OS fresh.

I would have waived the fee, but then again that is just the type of person I am. Perhaps you could pose the scenario that should you pay the 45$ and find that the machine is still exhibiting the same problems; then what? Are they going to refund you when you bring it back in for service?

Just be careful not to sound like a know-it-all. i.e. like going to the doctor and telling them what is wrong with you. You may have a well educated guess, but no matter it still comes off insulting.

EDIT: I agree with what others have said; give Apple a call. If you are past 90 days they may not listen, but it is worth a try. If you were planning on buying AppleCare you could also strike a deal with the ASP to buy it from them if they waive the diagnostic fee.

 

[Awjvail]

The warranty does not cover software problems. This is nothing new.

OP, could you provide additional details about what specifically you were running when the beachballing occurred. I used to work as a ACMT. In this situation I would be looking for a reason to blame the hard drive since they are usually the prime cause. BUT that being said, the Tech has to maintain integrity. If he really cannot reproduce the problems, then the most he should do procedurally is to install the OS fresh.

The beach balling occurred when doing the most mundane of things - opening a new tab in firefox, watching a YouTube video, basically anything with a flash player, opening a new Finder window, opening any new app, going into Expose, right clicking, copy+pasting, etc.

I reformatted it many times - the first time, I restored completely from a time machine backup and the issues returned. The second time, I only selectively restored files I needed, the issues returned. The third time, I reformatted to a clean slate and downloaded needed apps and files only as I needed them, yet the issue still returned after a few weeks of use.

It isn't even so much that he can't do anything to fix it - it is more the fact that he wants me to pay $45 even though there is something obviously wrong with the hardware that his diagnostics are missing. The tech even stated that he was able to reproduce the kernel panic issue yet "didn't know why".

I understand the tech must be paid for his time but not by me.

 

[iMacC2D]

Removed.