It has been 70 years since the first VE day

[JamesMike]

VE day was a very important day for many people around the world.

https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/ve-day-70th-anniversary

 

[vkd]

What is the real significance? The same demons are and have been continuing war ever since, now on many other levels too, gross, insidious, mental, financial (taxes, inflation etc.), etc. etc., etc.

 

[aaronvan]

A day of memory.

 

[rhett7660]

VE day was a very important day for many people around the world.

https://www.gov.uk/government/topical-events/ve-day-70th-anniversary

Pretty soon, if it hasn't happened already, there won't be any soldiers who have fought in the war left. They will have all passed on.

 

[JamesMike]

Pretty soon, if it hasn't happened already, there won't be any soldiers who have fought in the war left. They will have all passed on.

I agree. I was fortunate to visit Normandy several times for the D-Day celebrations and visiting with the WW II solders was the highlight of the visit.

 

[bradl]

Video: VE Day: 92-year-old WW2 Veteran Flies Spitfire for the First Time in 70 Years

I know there are a couple of VE Day threads going around, but this one is important enough to start another, and while most of those are about reflection, this one... well, let's just say that you don't have a heart if this doesn't make you feel good.

Enjoy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fire-for-first-time-in-70-years-10235907.html

VE Day: 92-year-old Second World War veteran flies Spitfire for first time in 70 years
by Heather Saul
Friday 08 May 2015

A 92-year-old Second World War veteran has flown a Spitfire aircraft for the first time in 70 years to mark VE Day.

Joy Lofthouse was a member of the Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA) during WWII and would fly the planes alone without the radio devices now used by pilots to communicate.

The ATA’s role involved shuttling Royal Air Force and Royal Navy planes between factories and maintenance units in Britain and then on to squadrons on the front line of the war.

Ms Lofthouse flew 18 aircraft during WWII but said the Spitfire was her favourite. “It was the iconic plane,” she told the BBC. “The Spitfire lasted much longer than [the Hurricane] because it was such a wonderful aeroplane, I think. [It is] the nearest thing to having wings of your own and flying.”

Before taking to skies, she said: "I'm excited but aware of my age,” adding: “I’m not as confident as I [was] when I used to fly them alone when I was young”.

Ms Lofthouse was joined by another pilot on this occasion but was handed full control of the aircraft once it was in the sky.

She described the experience as “lovely”. “It made me feel quite young”.

VE Day on 8 May marks the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII in Europe. It will be marked by a two-minute silence at London's Cenotaph before 200 beacons are lit across the UK.

The shot over the castle was amazing, and to be honest, she was very lovely in her prime, as well as now.

BL.

 

[vkd]

this VE day simply signifies that the demons-that-be, with Churchill, Roosevelt etc., as their public face, reduced the extreme terrorism inflicted on millions of innocent people. The end of a period of mass slaughter of millions by these demonic powers.

 

[Happybunny]

IMO the UK & USA + Russia always make more about VE day and WWII in general, because that was the last time they were the good guys.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Pretty soon, if it hasn't happened already, there won't be any soldiers who have fought in the war left. They will have all passed on.

The very same thought crossed my mind. Of course, some are still alive but their numbers are dwindling rapidly. The very last survivors of WW1 have died only in the past few years.

Actually, I had relatives who fought in the war; one, an uncle by marriage was a RAF officer who was killed in November 1943; his wife, who was my mother's oldest sister, herself held a commission in the WAAFs, and died in 2000 in her eighties. After her death, his ring, which my aunt had worn, passed to me, and I wear it with pride.

I know there are a couple of VE Day threads going around, but this one is important enough to start another, and while most of those are about reflection, this one... well, let's just say that you don't have a heart if this doesn't make you feel good.

Enjoy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...fire-for-first-time-in-70-years-10235907.html



YouTube: video

The shot over the castle was amazing, and to be honest, she was very lovely in her prime, as well as now.

BL.

Thanks for posting this. A lovely story.

IMO the UK & USA + Russia always make more about VE day and WWII in general, because that was the last time they were the good guys.

There is truth to this observation; but I genuinely think that there is a little more to it than this. It was just that 'that was the last time they were the good guys'; it was that they take a quiet pride - and rightly so - in what was done then. Participation on the Allied side - for the most part - in WW2 is not something that has to be explained away, or apologised for, or glossed over, 70 years later. It is something that one can take pride in having been a part of.

 

[vrDrew]

IMO the UK & USA + Russia always make more about VE day and WWII in general, because that was the last time they were the good guys.

Korea? Or do you think that the thirty three thousand US servicemen killed in that war should have simply let the nutty Kim family run the entire peninsula into starvation and ruin?

Kosovo? Or should NATO have stood by while Milosevic ethnically cleansed the entire country?

Should we have simply let Saddam Hussein take over Kuwait in 1990?

Apparently some of the lessons of the past aren't very well remembered in some quarters.

 

[Happybunny]

Korea? Or do you think that the thirty three thousand US servicemen killed in that war should have simply let the nutty Kim family run the entire peninsula into starvation and ruin?

Kosovo? Or should NATO have stood by while Milosevic ethnically cleansed the entire country?

Should we have simply let Saddam Hussein take over Kuwait in 1990?

Apparently some of the lessons of the past aren't very well remembered in some quarters.

I think that you forgot TWO.

Vietnam

The most extensive survey estimates deaths in the war from 1954 to 1975 at between 1.5 and 3.6 million people. This estimate includes both civilian and military deaths in North and South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.
The Second Indochina War (aka. the Vietnam War or the American War) began in 1955 and ended in 1975 when North Vietnamese forces captured Saigon.
Death still reported years later after the US Military use of Agent Orange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties


Iraq 2003
Estimates of the casualties from the conflict in Iraq since 2003 (beginning with the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, and the ensuing occupation and insurgency) have come in many forms, and the accuracy of the information available on different types of Iraq War casualties varies greatly.

Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, found that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion. Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.

Added to this the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

 

[vrDrew]

The Second Indochina War (aka. the Vietnam War or the American War) began in 1955 and ended in 1975 when North Vietnamese forces captured Saigon.

I consider America's involvement in Vietnam to be one of the great tragedies of the second half of the 20th century. But its mistaken to characterize the US' role there as that of "bad guy." That is an oversimplification, based on a half-truth.

America's involvement in Vietnam started at a time when it felt - with some considerable justification - that it was engaged in a vast undeclared worldwide war against the forces of Communism. From Germany to Korea; Yugoslavia to the Horn of Africa; Latin America to Finland - almost everywhere it seemed forces linked to either the Soviet Union or the Peoples Republic of China seemed intent on destabilizing existing Governments, and installing what looked very much like Dictatorships. And that was certainly true in Vietnam.

With the benefit of half a century of hindsight its easy to condemn the idea of going to war in Vietnam. That the Vietnamese people were the natural allies of America; and the historical enemies of China. And that there were probably better ways of fighting Asian Communism than napalm and M-16s.

But America fought in Vietnam on much the same basis as it fought in Korea.

 

[vkd]

America's involvement in Vietnam started at a time when it felt - with some considerable justification - that it was engaged in a vast undeclared worldwide war against the forces of Communism.

Heh. That so-called great evil of communism is installed worldwide and funded by... Wall St. Their policy is "Build 'em up to knock 'em down." Why? Because overall they gain widespread control.

Fact.

 

[sim667]

I think that you forgot TWO.

Vietnam

The most extensive survey estimates deaths in the war from 1954 to 1975 at between 1.5 and 3.6 million people. This estimate includes both civilian and military deaths in North and South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.
The Second Indochina War (aka. the Vietnam War or the American War) began in 1955 and ended in 1975 when North Vietnamese forces captured Saigon.
Death still reported years later after the US Military use of Agent Orange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties


Iraq 2003
Estimates of the casualties from the conflict in Iraq since 2003 (beginning with the 2003 US invasion of Iraq, and the ensuing occupation and insurgency) have come in many forms, and the accuracy of the information available on different types of Iraq War casualties varies greatly.

Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, found that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion. Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.

Added to this the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

In both of those was America was the dominant aggressor, so I don't know how this fits in to a comment about the UK and Russia being "the bad guys" (a very black and white term don't you think), since WW2......

 

[Happybunny]

In both of those was America was the dominant aggressor, so I don't know how this fits in to a comment about the UK and Russia being "the bad guys" (a very black and white term don't you think), since WW2......

The UK various colonial wars Kenya, Cyprus, 1956 Suez.
The use of torture in Kenya. Invasion of sovereign country Egypt.

Britain is to pay out £19.9m in costs and compensation to more than 5,000 elderly Kenyans who suffered torture and abuse during the Mau Mau uprising in the 1950s, the foreign secretary, William Hague, has said.

Hague told the House of Commons that the payment was being made in "full and final settlement" of a high court action brought by five of the victims who suffered under the British colonial administration.

"We understand the pain and the grief felt by those who were involved in the events of emergency in Kenya. The British government recognises that Kenyans were subjected to torture and other forms of ill-treatment at the hands of the colonial administration," he said.

"The British government sincerely regrets that these abuses took place and that they marred Kenya's progress to independence. Torture and ill-treatment are abhorrent violations of human dignity which we unreservedly condemn.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/uk-compensate-kenya-mau-mau-torture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

Northern Ireland.

Detention without trial, killing of unarmed demonstrators (Bloody Sunday), collusion between security forces and loyalist para militaries.

Internment Northern Ireland

It involved the mass arrest and internment (without trial) of 342 people suspected of being involved with Irish republican paramilitaries (the Provisional IRA and Official IRA). Armed soldiers launched dawn raids throughout Northern Ireland, sparking four days of rioting that killed 20 civilians, two Provisional IRA members and two British soldiers. About 7,000 people fled their homes, of which roughly 2,500 fled south of the border. No loyalist paramilitaries were included in the sweep and many of those who were arrested had no links with republican paramilitaries, which caused much anger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_in_Northern_Ireland



Collusion between security forces and loyalist paramilitaries

One particularly controversial aspect of the conflict has been collusion between the state security forces and loyalist paramilitaries as highlighted by the Stevens Inquiries and the case of Brian Nelson amongst others. Some were members of both paramilitaries and the security forces. As well as taking part in paramilitary attacks, some soldiers and policemen are alleged to have given weapons and intelligence to loyalists, turned a blind eye to their activities, and/or hindered police investigations of them. A report released by the Irish Government in 2006 said that members of the British security forces also colluded with loyalists in attacks inside the Republic of Ireland.

Why do you think that it took the UK so long to sign up to the European Convention on Human Rights?

After all the convention dates back to 1953, could it be that the UK was frighten that it would be used against them in their dirty little wars?



Russia

East Germany 1953

Hungary 1956

Czechoslovakia 1968

 

[sim667]

The UK various colonial wars Kenya, Cyprus, 1956 Suez.
The use of torture in Kenya. Invasion of sovereign country Egypt.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/uk-compensate-kenya-mau-mau-torture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

Northern Ireland.

Detention without trial, killing of unarmed demonstrators (Bloody Sunday), collusion between security forces and loyalist para militaries.

Internment Northern Ireland

It involved the mass arrest and internment (without trial) of 342 people suspected of being involved with Irish republican paramilitaries (the Provisional IRA and Official IRA). Armed soldiers launched dawn raids throughout Northern Ireland, sparking four days of rioting that killed 20 civilians, two Provisional IRA members and two British soldiers. About 7,000 people fled their homes, of which roughly 2,500 fled south of the border. No loyalist paramilitaries were included in the sweep and many of those who were arrested had no links with republican paramilitaries, which caused much anger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_in_Northern_Ireland



Collusion between security forces and loyalist paramilitaries

One particularly controversial aspect of the conflict has been collusion between the state security forces and loyalist paramilitaries as highlighted by the Stevens Inquiries and the case of Brian Nelson amongst others. Some were members of both paramilitaries and the security forces. As well as taking part in paramilitary attacks, some soldiers and policemen are alleged to have given weapons and intelligence to loyalists, turned a blind eye to their activities, and/or hindered police investigations of them. A report released by the Irish Government in 2006 said that members of the British security forces also colluded with loyalists in attacks inside the Republic of Ireland.

Why do you think that it took the UK so long to sign up to the European Convention on Human Rights?

After all the convention dates back to 1953, could it be that the UK was frighten that it would be used against them in their dirty little wars?



Russia

East Germany 1953

Hungary 1956

Czechoslovakia 1968

Oh I'm not debating Britain has been abhorrent in its actions around the world.

I just didn't understand why you were using 2 predominantly American wars to make a point about britain

 

[farmboy]

I think that you forgot TWO.

Vietnam
The most extensive survey estimates deaths in the war from 1954 to 1975 at between 1.5 and 3.6 million people. This estimate includes both civilian and military deaths in North and South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.
The Second Indochina War (aka. the Vietnam War or the American War) began in 1955 and ended in 1975 when North Vietnamese forces captured Saigon.
Death still reported years later after the US Military use of Agent Orange.

Sorry, U.S. combat troops did not land in Vietnam until 1961. The warring had been going on for years before the French even left in 1954--they left because they got their ass handed to them. And please tell us how you separate out the deaths caused to this day by tens of millions of cheap Russian and Chinese land mines. And "1.5 million [to] 3.6 million" is a wild-ass guess, not science.

...Scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War found that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, found that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion. Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.

Uh huh. So the numbers "scientifically" are 112,000, 123,000, 151,000, 174,000, 500,000 and one million. Sure. Absolutely. And please separate out the deaths caused by warring Islamic factions (Shia, Sunni, Kurd, Al Qaeda etc.) trying to wipe each other out since those nations were founded, and for whom no civilian loss is relevant. Or are those all attributable to the U.S.?

Data like that is facile, but not helpful. Remember, Wiki is not your friend when it comes to data. Wiki is where passion and advocacy take precedence over truth, because opinions are easy and facts are hard.

We also didn't forget hundreds of years of Dutch imperialism and the establishment of apartheid (I mean, as long as we're talking bad things by bad people and all...)

War is an unfortunately constant component of life since the rise of humans living in groups. We can only hope to do better. We must do better. But we can also mourn the loss of young innocents who sacrifice themselves for the good of others, whether the cause is noble and necessary or not, as sometimes only years may determine. But the loss hurts just as much.

 

[Ironduke]

As a brit I say to the dutch boy

YEAH GITSUM!

 

[Happybunny]

War is an unfortunately constant component of life since the rise of humans living in groups. We can only hope to do better. We must do better. But we can also mourn the loss of young innocents who sacrifice themselves for the good of others, whether the cause is noble and necessary or not, as sometimes only years may determine. But the loss hurts just as much.

You completely miss the point.

The whole point if you had read all the posts, was that the Allies of WWII cling to the war in Europe, becuse it was the last time any of them fought a GOOD war.

It’s why those countries more than the others makes such a show of VE day.

Since 1945 those same allies Russia UK and the USA have over time morphed into the bully boys of the world.