ITC Denies Apple's Request for a Stay on Looming Apple Watch Import Ban

[Abazigal]

Exactly, which is what makes it so bad. They knew it was this close and rather than negotiate in good faith, they refused contact with Masimo. There is a reason this hasn’t happened with any other Apple products.

Maybe because other products don't involve medical patents. Masimo is right to defend their own intellectual property, while Apple is not wrong to fight to invalidate what it believes are invalid patents (and they did manage to get the majority of them overturned). It looks like Apple just doesn't want to pay, either because they don't think they should, or perhaps they were secretly hoping for a veto from President Biden.

Let's see how this plays out.

 

[hagjohn]

That's their product.

They barely clear a billion in top-line revenue, after being in business for decades.

May be if companies didn't steal their tech.

 

[hagjohn]

I always laugh about these threads. Apple gets caught and excuses fly but someone even comes close to taking/using Apple tech, they are thieves. The double standard is amazing to watch (no pun intended).

 

[bsan]

Aside from Apple's legal problems, what's wrong with Masimo's logo? It appears so stretched and off, I had to double-check on multiple devices that it wasn't rendering incorrectly or something.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

SAD! Why don't they want Apple to innovate anymore?!?

 

[Ghost31]

Yeah I saw the ceo of that company on tv basically saying he’s been open to a settlement all along but Apple never even tried to talk to them. According to him, Apple poached his employees (24 of them) and his technology and when he tried to talk to them he got radio silence.

If that’s true, then yeah. Apples in the wrong and they should just pay to settle. I don’t have sympathy for big corporations stealing technology

 

[latweek]

Does this mean we have to start innovatin now?

Asking for a CEO friend.

 

[Shirasaki]

This will likely end in Apple buying Masimo.

Buying for what? Better blood oxygen sensor? Taking over the management of all masimo’s customer? Entering into a field that has little to no overlap with what Apple currently doing?

Please don't come to macrumors with logic and/or facts. This is not the place for that type of nonsense. 🤣
🥲

This comment should be the pinned comment for every MacRumors post.

 

[Shirasaki]

Forever?

Yes, forever. It won’t prevent software update from being installed anyway.

 

[sw1tcher]

Assimo doesn't want to license their patents, they want 1.8 billion dollars and co-ownership of Apple's patents on their sensors for a perpetual revenue stream.

Sounds like Masimo CEO wants to work with Apple, maybe even license them [Apple] the patents, but "not even a call" back from anyone at Apple per https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/20/apple-fails-in-bid-to-delay-apple-watch-sales-ban.html

Masimo CEO Joe Kiani told CNBC on Monday that Apple had not reached out to settle.

“I don’t care that much about the Apple leadership, given about what I know about how they run the company,” Kiani said. “I still extended the olive branch and offered to work with them for the betterment of people and our shareholders, and not even a call.”

 

[Beautyspin]

https://www.mddionline.com/digital-...health-watch-for-consumers-on-a-limited-basis

Literally their product.



Assimo doesn't want to license their patents, they want 1.8 billion dollars and co-ownership of Apple's patents on their sensors for a perpetual revenue stream.

Good for them. Looks like Apple has met its match after a long time.

 

[t0rqx]

Last time to prevent a ban they opened up backdoors. So I wonder about this time.

 

[xpxp2002]

Is there any actual evidence that they did that? Or is it just anecdotes of people thinking their headphones sound different?

Yes. Rtings performed a professional assessment before and after the firmware update and objectively determined that the AirPods ANC was less effective for some ranges after the update.

 

[CapitalIdea]

Yeah I saw the ceo of that company on tv basically saying he’s been open to a settlement all along but Apple never even tried to talk to them. According to him, Apple poached his employees (24 of them) and his technology and when he tried to talk to them he got radio silence.

If that’s true, then yeah. Apples in the wrong and they should just pay to settle. I don’t have sympathy for big corporations stealing technology

You cannot "poach" people. They are not animals in the wild. They chose to leave their job for a better opportunity, as is their right, and Masimo has no ownership over them. That is why things like non-competes are illegal and unenforceable these days in any state worth a damn.

Masimo could try to claim that these former employees have absolutely no ability outside of what they did at their old jobs or that anything they ever accomplished was due to the magical management there, but that will never hold up in any real job market, and anyone with any sense would be foolish to work there if that is their position.

 

[drmorley]

You cannot "poach" people. They are not animals in the wild. They chose to leave their job for a better opportunity, as is their right, and Masimo has no ownership over them. That is why things like non-competes are illegal and unenforceable these days in any state worth a damn.

Masimo could try to claim that these former employees have absolutely no ability outside of what they did at their old jobs or that anything they ever accomplished was due to the magical management there, but that will never hold up in any real job market, and anyone with any sense would be foolish to work there if that is their position.

Apple legally hired those 24 employees. The work product was Masimo’s and not the property of said employees.

Apple hired them to effectively steal Masimo’s tech. Apple is in the wrong and will be forced to license Masimo’s tech or buy the company. Adding a healthcare division to Apple would be a huge win for their shareholders. Innovation through acquisition.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Class Action Lawsuit.

You'll have people coming out of the woodwork claiming that they only reason they bought an Apple watch was for the blood oxygen measurement and Apple took it back without compensation.

The ITC ruling, if it doesn’t get overturned, calls for a ban after 12/25, so devices sold before then in the US will operate as normal. I’m saying remove the feature for devices sold after 12/25 — unless a software update fixes the situation or an appeal is successful.

 

[Analog Kid]

The ITC ruling, if it doesn’t get overturned, calls for a ban after 12/25, so devices sold before then in the US will operate as normal. I’m saying remove the feature for devices sold after 12/25 — unless a software update fixes the situation or an appeal is successful.

Yeah, that’s different. I was hearing people suggest disabling it by software update, which would be a problem. I wonder if they can differentiate by when a device was sold.

It’ll be hard to publicize the absence of the feature strongly enough to overcome the expectation that it’s included though without changing the model number.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I think Masimo would agree on a fee of $100 per Apple Watch. Then both sides would win.

As Masimo is a publicly traded company, it would be illegal for them to accept a bad deal with Apple. They could be sued by the shareholders, if they do get less than possible out of it.

 

[rjflyn]

Masimo market cap 6.1 B is pocket change to Apples 3.03 T…Apple could buy the company for the patents… turn around and spin off the company and profit along the way

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Yeah, that’s different. I was hearing people suggest disabling it by software update, which would be a problem. I wonder if they can differentiate by when a device was sold.

It’ll be hard to publicize the absence of the feature strongly enough to overcome the expectation that it’s included though without changing the model number.

No way they would disable by software update since already sold devices aren’t impacted. I think they just remove it from the feature list going forward — unless this is settled another way. It just isn’t worth a licensing agreement — it could go away tomorrow and I think most wouldn’t even notice. That and the feeling I get that the CEO of Masimo isn’t a reasonable fellow in terms of licensing.

 

[svish]

Seems like a settlement is the only way forward. Otherwise future generations of watches may also face hurdles.

 

[Analog Kid]

No way they would disable by software update since already sold devices aren’t impacted.

I'm thinking what will they do when they have a firmware update, can they distinguish whether you bought your watch before or after the deadline, or are they going to need to update the hardware to flag it. Firmware must be able to detect the unit serial number though, it's visible in the General/About settings.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm thinking what will they do when they have a firmware update, can they distinguish whether you bought your watch before or after the deadline, or are they going to need to update the hardware to flag it. Firmware must be able to detect the unit serial number though, it's visible in the General/About settings.

Or maybe just turn it off at the factory before it is being packaged? Not sure what this means for unsold stock. Maybe Apple will send them back?

 

[Analog Kid]

Or maybe just turn it off at the factory before it is being packaged? Not sure what this means for unsold stock. Maybe Apple will send them back?

Turning it off by software needs to know whether it's before or after the deadline, otherwise the next firmware update will just turn it back on. Either a switch needs to be set in BIOS or hardware or something-- but I think the serial number is sufficient and software is able to access that.

It's also an import ban, not a sales ban. So unsold stock is probably ok as long as it came into the country before the ban? I'm not really sure of the rules here...

 

[Kierkegaarden]

I'm thinking what will they do when they have a firmware update, can they distinguish whether you bought your watch before or after the deadline, or are they going to need to update the hardware to flag it. Firmware must be able to detect the unit serial number though, it's visible in the General/About settings.

If I’m understanding correctly, I don’t think this would be an issue for them. Couldn’t they distinguish these by a different internal model #, different production run, or something similar? The consumer won’t know either way, so it wouldn’t be confusing for them — just maybe more backend work for Apple. Or maybe I’m just confused about the complexity of such a process.