iTunes 8 - will it rip DVD's...?

[d.f]

i can understand why apple has yet to add this feature. they don't want to ruin relationships with movie studios.... but it doesn't look like this tactic is working. how long since the last studio got on board with iTMS...?

if apple is serious about their apple TV and movie playing iPods, they need more content. and more importantly they need that content worldwide. iPods genius is not the iTMS. Steve himself admitted that not very many tracks are downloaded per iPod sold.

if you could easily transfer you old movies through iTunes with pre sets for ATV, iPod, iPhone, etc they'd have an actually useful feature for the masses. a good reason for another big marketing push.

are apples hands really tied on this, or do people think this could happen.

 

[rockstarjoe]

Unfortunately Apple can't do this. Ripping DVDs is illegal, as it requires the copy protection to be broken. Blame the DMCA.

 

[EvilDoc]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 6.12) T-Mobile Dash)

i didnt think ripping and burning dvds for personal use was illegal.

 

[Krevnik]

Unfortunately Apple can't do this. Ripping DVDs is illegal, as it requires the copy protection to be broken. Blame the DMCA.

It isn't a violation if Apple gets the proper license to rip it into a Fairplay-wrapped MPEG-4 video. However, the odds of Apple getting such a license are completely unknown, there haven't really been any public attempts at doing such a thing.

 

[d.f]

really...???

Unfortunately Apple can't do this. Ripping DVDs is illegal, as it requires the copy protection to be broken. Blame the DMCA.

really...? i though you were by law allowed to make a backup for your own use. hence the many official software products that are used for this feature. i'm not saying you're wrong but it sounds like 1980's/90's tape to tape type violations. what did people think all those TDK C90's were being sold for..?

 

[JesterJJZ]

Unfortunately Apple can't do this. Ripping DVDs is illegal, as it requires the copy protection to be broken. Blame the DMCA.

So is Handbrake illegal?

 

[lamina]

So is Handbrake illegal?

If I am correct, Handbrake only converts video, but MacTheRipper is what decodes a DVD, and as far as I know, it's illegal, because it circumvents copy protection, which is covered by the DMCA.

Anyway, Apple will definitely not want to allow DVDs to be ripped, at least not any time soon, because they want to be in a good relationship with movie studios in order to offer content on the iTunes Store.

 

[MDiddy]

If I am correct, Handbrake only converts video, but MacTheRipper is what decodes a DVD, and as far as I know, it's illegal, because it circumvents copy protection, which is covered by the DMCA.

Anyway, Apple will definitely not want to allow DVDs to be ripped, at least not any time soon, because they want to be in a good relationship with movie studios in order to offer content on the iTunes Store.

You are incorrect. Handbrake rips direct from DVD. It's all you need to get movies to your iPod/iPhone.

 

[mkrishnan]

i though you were by law allowed to make a backup for your own use. hence the many official software products that are used for this feature.

This has gone back and forth... the DMCA specifically prevents circumvention of copy protection, which is germane to only some DVDs (for many, you can just drag the ts_video folder off the DVD and onto your desktop, and you don't even need MTR). If you remember, there were a series of lawsuits related to a company called 321 Studios that made a commerical DVD ripper, which isn't available anymore, AFAIK. The lawsuits at least had face validity (and the lower court rulings were against 321), but eventually the company went bankrupt, in the midst of the appeals process.

A recent bit of precedent again claims that at minimum, using a file copy of a non-protected DVD is legal. It would seem harder though to get around the DMCA language about circumvention, which again, isn't at issue for all DVDs.

As far as Apple doing it in iTunes, though... mmmm, no one knows for sure just how well iTunes movie selling is going, and Apple has been quiet about it, but I would think this would seriously jeopardize it, unless they were able to quickly move their purchased movies to HD resolutions, so that the ripped DVDs would seem also-ran.

 

[Wild-Bill]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 6.12) T-Mobile Dash)

i didnt think ripping and burning dvds for personal use was illegal.

Neither does anyone else, unless you are from the MPAA or similar greed-driven organization.

 

[Cleverboy]

Always bugs me when companies like Apple who have to stick to the straight and narrow, are criticised in a "why doesn't Apple do X" type of way, while other companies routinely break the laws and keep on truckin'. What bugs me most, is that there's such a lack of clarity.

When I saw this thread, I thought it was a reference to the news that broke in the last few months, regarding CHANGES in the law that would allow DVD burning rights to be put into effect on digital movie download services. This would allow companies like Apple to burn a form of DVD that would play on regular players. Ever notice how that was missing? Also, the company Kleidoscape had won somewhat of a landmark decision earlier this year, regarding its ability to provide "ripping" service to customers in the form of a device that copies DVDs and lets consumers play them from a central location. From what I understand, they got the thumbs up simply because there wasn't explicit language disallowing what they were providing.

MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA – March 29, 2007 — Kaleidescape Inc. is pleased to announce that today, after a seven-day trial, Judge Leslie C. Nichols of the Santa Clara Superior Court ruled that Kaleidescape is in full compliance with the DVD Copy Control Association's license to the Content Scramble System, the method used to encrypt video and audio data on DVDs. As part of his statement of decision, Judge Nichols noted Kaleidescape’s good faith in its efforts to ensure that its products were fully compliant.

"Kaleidescape has been operating in the shadow of the DVD CCA's allegations for over three years. We are gratified that after hearing all of the evidence, the Judge has completely vindicated our position," said Michael Malcolm, founder, chairman and CEO of Kaleidescape.

http://www.kaleidescape.com/company/pr/PR-20070329-DVDCCA.html

Months later however, DVD CCA has filed its appeal, and a document describing its view on the matter:
http://www.dvdcca.org/faqK1_2_.pdf

Q. Did the Court rule that copying movies from CSS protected
DVDs onto a Kaleidescape system is a "fair use" of copyrighted
content?
A. No. The court specifically noted that questions of copyright law
had no bearing on the case. Moreover, the California State Court
that heard the case has no authority to make any rulings about fair
use, which is strictly a matter of federal copyright law.
Q. Has DVD CCA appealed the Court's ruling?
A. Yes, DVD CCA filed its Notice of Appeal on June 5, 2007.

Paul Sweeting of ContentAgenda.com, wrote a good article about the state of things:
http://www.contentagenda.com/blog/1500000150/post/160008016.html

Under the grand compromise, the terms of the CSS license would be amended to prescribe exactly how such copying could be done and the sort of DRM the receiving device would need to support. The key to the whole megillah, though, was the ability to enforce the rules in the license agreement.

So, I suppose none of this is a given by a long shot. Open Source solutions like "Handbrake" are wonderful, but absolutely NO way for a corporation to move forward with a mass-consumer software product. Just like Google's purchase opened YouTube up to the likelihood of large scale lawsuits (like Viacom's), the odds are low that companies will file lawsuits against shadowy fly-by-night operations selling DVD ripping software. Like killing allofmp3.com and having mp3sparks.com or legalsounds.com pop up and carry on, what would be the point? If Apple started breaking the low, that's a huge juicy target... a money-tree to shake down for all its worth in damages.

~ CB

 

[d.f]

yes, but...

Anyway, Apple will definitely not want to allow DVDs to be ripped, at least not any time soon, because they want to be in a good relationship with movie studios in order to offer content on the iTunes Store.

ok, but if the studios are not fully embracing iTMS, and they're not, then who cares if movies studios relationships sour with Apple....?

Apple are a hardware company. everything they do, including making their own software and OS, is to drive hardware sales. having an ok selection of content on the US only ITMS doesn't do this job very well. enabling the consumer to have all their videos a click away sounds like a better feature.

plus Apple doesn't do anything to keep their relationship strong with record companies. in fact quite the opposite. rightly so, their demands are just out of greed, not to drive sales.

just my 2 farthings worth.

 

[Shadow]

ok, but if the studios are not fully embracing iTMS, and they're not, then who cares if movies studios relationships sour with Apple....?

Apple are a hardware company. everything they do, including making their own software and OS, is to drive hardware sales. having an ok selection of content on the US only ITMS doesn't do this job very well. enabling the consumer to have all their videos a click away sounds like a better feature.

plus Apple doesn't do anything to keep their relationship strong with record companies. in fact quite the opposite. rightly so, their demands are just out of greed, not to drive sales.

just my 2 farthings worth.

Apple are not going to break the law. Period.

 

[FleurDuMal]

It would be excellent if it did, and, at some point in the future, I feel it will be inevitable that DVD ripping will go mainstream, just like CD ripping did.

However, apart from the obvious legal implications (which could be overcome by some encrypting of DRM stuff on the movie after its been ripped in iTunes maybe), the fact is it is just waaay too slow at the moment for the average user to bother with DVD ripping. When the average computer is fast enough to do it in real time, maybe, but we are far away from that at the moment (btw, 'average user' doesnt mean 'average Macrumors user' ). Plus Apple would quite like you to buy its iTMS content, thankyouverymuch.

 

[DoFoT9]

cant handbrake just make a plug-in for itunes???

that would be quite amazing!!!

 

[CaptainWOW]

Neither does anyone else, unless you are from the MPAA or similar greed-driven organization.

God I hate the MPAA and the FCC.

I. Just. Hate. Them. So. Much!

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

i didnt think ripping and burning dvds for personal use was illegal.

It's not. It's breaking encryption on CSS-encoded discs to rip the content that makes it illegal. Damn the DMCA.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

So is Handbrake illegal?

HandBrake is neither intrinsically legal nor illegal. It has purposeful uses in both domains.

The difference lies in what you do with it.

 

[Black Belt]

It's not. It's breaking encryption on CSS-encoded discs to rip the content that makes it illegal. Damn the DMCA.

Blame Bush and Clinton both for whoring to the movie industry and stealing our rights.

 

[jdechko]

It's not. It's breaking encryption on CSS-encoded discs to rip the content that makes it illegal. Damn the DMCA.

Which brings up an interesting point. If Apple were to license the decryption algorithm from Macrovision eek they'd be able to operate without violating the DMCA.

 

[mrfrosty]

Apple are not going to break the law. Period.

Should read "Apple are not going to break the law again. Period."

 

[redfirebird08]

The only way it will get added to iTunes is if Apple wraps the files in DRM, meaning that you'd have to have a iTunes store account and you'd have to be logged in to the account while ripping the movie. That way, it gets wrapped in DRM and only a person who knows your username and password for the iTunes Store can watch the movie, with only 5 computer authorizations allowed of course.

 

[weckart]

If the likes of Blu-ray and HDVD take off, then you are looking at ripping up to 50GB at a time. Sooner or later, it won't be worth the time or effort.

 

[d.f]

why not....

The only way it will get added to iTunes is if Apple wraps the files in DRM, meaning that you'd have to have a iTunes store account and you'd have to be logged in to the account while ripping the movie. That way, it gets wrapped in DRM and only a person who knows your username and password for the iTunes Store can watch the movie, with only 5 computer authorizations allowed of course.

this is what they do with music, right..? so this sounds like a good possibility, no..?

just trying to get past this idea that there's no way it's possible due to current law.... would they need an agreement from movie studios..? or could they do it regardless defending themselves by saying it's an already existing method of legal home use...

i'm just not convinced that apple can wait around for movie studios to provide the must have content to push hardware sales.

they seem to want to push hard for content in all other areas - spending on direct deals with high profile artists like Macca and Dylan who are not included in their existing record company deals. They've quickly worked with Youtube (offering it's own prominent channel across devices, getting entire library h.264).

i know i'm just wishfully thinking, but it would be really cool as i'm sure they'd do it in very simple, quick easy way.

 

[GFLPraxis]

really...? i though you were by law allowed to make a backup for your own use. hence the many official software products that are used for this feature. i'm not saying you're wrong but it sounds like 1980's/90's tape to tape type violations. what did people think all those TDK C90's were being sold for..?

You're allowed to make backups for personal use, but it's illegal to break copy protection. Most NEW DVD's are encrypted.

Handbrake bypasses encryption, so it CAN be illegal if you rip an encrypted disk.

Essentially, Apple could only give iTunes the ability to rip unprotected DVDs; it'd be unable to rip any copy-protected DVDs, at least legally.

this is what they do with music, right..? so this sounds like a good possibility, no..?

No; iTunes rips music to unprotected MP3s.

The music you BUY off iTunes comes with the DRM protection on.

It is illegal for Apple to release an application that breaks copy protection. They'd NEED permission from the movie studios, legally. And it's unlikely the movie studios would do so.