How easy would it be to get a good job with a BS degree in CS/SE/etc. provided that you have several intern experience?
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macOS Job Market with BS degree?
- Thread starter j0hnnys
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I have applied to plenty of companies, but little success has been tempting me to go back to graduate school.
Fortunately, good, experienced developers are very much in demand. Unfortunately, companies aren't willing to sink the expense of training interns like they used to. The best thing you can do is get out there, get some visibility on projects. Check out places like stackoverflow, github, hackernews, or proggit. If you're waiting for a company to swoop in and see your hidden talents you'll be disappointed. Sites like the ones are frequented by other programmers and they generally post openings. You'll have contact with the people that may be on your 2nd and 3rd interview; bypassing the HR BS filter.
A lot of companies are expecting project development experience and that is something college can't cover, but working on some OSS projects in your spare time definitely is.
A lot of companies are expecting project development experience and that is something college can't cover, but working on some OSS projects in your spare time definitely is.
Similar to Yardie's take... I guess i'd say the job market is always good for people that are awesome. Are you awesome? If so, networking is going to be the key, because your resume may not immediately show that you are awesome, so it may not get past HR. If you can have a friend recommend you for a position to someone who's really doing the hiring, you bypass the HR shredder and get a foot in the door, and you can then demonstrate your awesomeness. If you are not awesome, you're going to have a harder time.
I would say don't apply for developer/engineer jobs if you are not awesome yet. Try to get in the door in IT, as a software analyst, or in some other support capacity. The bar to entry may be lower (and you may out-qualify other applicants since you do have a CS degree), and once you're in the door you can start learning the systems and working towards being awesome. You'll have an easier time convincing people that know you and are aware that you know the system that they should take a shot on you moving into a development role than convincing them when you're an outsider.
-Lee
I would say don't apply for developer/engineer jobs if you are not awesome yet. Try to get in the door in IT, as a software analyst, or in some other support capacity. The bar to entry may be lower (and you may out-qualify other applicants since you do have a CS degree), and once you're in the door you can start learning the systems and working towards being awesome. You'll have an easier time convincing people that know you and are aware that you know the system that they should take a shot on you moving into a development role than convincing them when you're an outsider.
-Lee
Rather than rely, or hoping to rely on your BS Degree to get you a job, focus on getting damn good at whatever you want to do for a job.
Having a degree may help you get a better job, but ultimately it's how good you do what you claim you can via that degree that will determine your worth at a company.
The job market is crap out there so you need to stand out against the other two dozen guys with your same degree fighting for that entry level job - having skills that match them doesn't help much; having skills that make them look pathetic is what will get you the job. This economy will reward the stand-outs.
Also, don't be afraid to relocate. I live in Utah and some of the major players are all moving here (Adobe is building a brand new complex 10 minutes from my house, the US .gov is building a massive NSA data center about 30 minutes from where Adobe is moving. So, don't be afraid to relocate to get that job you want.
Lastly, is that graduate degree going to reward you with a higher salary, or just saddle you with 2 more years of school debt?
Good luck!!
Having a degree may help you get a better job, but ultimately it's how good you do what you claim you can via that degree that will determine your worth at a company.
The job market is crap out there so you need to stand out against the other two dozen guys with your same degree fighting for that entry level job - having skills that match them doesn't help much; having skills that make them look pathetic is what will get you the job. This economy will reward the stand-outs.
Also, don't be afraid to relocate. I live in Utah and some of the major players are all moving here (Adobe is building a brand new complex 10 minutes from my house, the US .gov is building a massive NSA data center about 30 minutes from where Adobe is moving. So, don't be afraid to relocate to get that job you want.
Lastly, is that graduate degree going to reward you with a higher salary, or just saddle you with 2 more years of school debt?
Good luck!!
If you have any web experience and are willing to freelance, look for local graphic designers who don't have a preferred programmer. If you have a few good portfolio pieces, you may have some success with that.
I've done fine with no degree at all. My "equivalent" is 5+ years of working on major open source projects.
Credentials can get you the interview, but it's what you do in it that gets you the job.
Credentials can get you the interview, but it's what you do in it that gets you the job.
Once every few years, yes, only that often, I hire web application programers. I use a degree as a tie breaker, but nothing beats experience. On occasion, I hire directly from college if I have a position that is someone I want to grow into and I need un-molded clay.
Understanding how corporations work, how projects are managed, and how to manage scope creep are just as important as banging out code. I'm a small shop in a large corporation, so often, my developers meet with the application requestors, brainstorm, then go back to their desks to develop.
The project development becomes very iterative which frustrates those used to single goal project tasks, to no end.
School Work: You have two weeks to give me a widget that does x,y,z.
Real Work: You have two weeks to give me a widget that does x,y,z, you finish one week early, demo your xyz, then the discussion centers around wouldn't it be cool if ... how long will that take, can you have it by Wednesday so we can review and preview with Group z, who is looking to spiral, spiral, spiral ...
Understanding how corporations work, how projects are managed, and how to manage scope creep are just as important as banging out code. I'm a small shop in a large corporation, so often, my developers meet with the application requestors, brainstorm, then go back to their desks to develop.
The project development becomes very iterative which frustrates those used to single goal project tasks, to no end.
School Work: You have two weeks to give me a widget that does x,y,z.
Real Work: You have two weeks to give me a widget that does x,y,z, you finish one week early, demo your xyz, then the discussion centers around wouldn't it be cool if ... how long will that take, can you have it by Wednesday so we can review and preview with Group z, who is looking to spiral, spiral, spiral ...
Job Opening
I'm looking for a Mac certified professional with an emphasis on hardware/software support. The job location is Bethesda, MD at NIH. Can anyone please suggest a web site or Forum where Mac Gurus hang out for such opportunities? Much appreciated
I'm looking for a Mac certified professional with an emphasis on hardware/software support. The job location is Bethesda, MD at NIH. Can anyone please suggest a web site or Forum where Mac Gurus hang out for such opportunities? Much appreciated
I'd say not "aside from". There are plenty of great engineers without degrees. Experience is everything, then also it doesn't hurt to have a degree. As someone said above it might be a tie-breaker if two candidates are otherwise equal.
-Lee
That's the smartest response I have seen on this thread.
I know somebody who does well in translation w/o degree where many who can't get a job have a master's degree. I also know an anchorwoman w/o degree who did well while she had people from Columbia's school of journalism intern for her. Tons of examples of people in corporate business and of course, entrepreneurs.
The worst thing a person can do is either not aim high because they don't have a degree or try and let the degree do the talking and become complacent.
In the end, in any job whether you work for somebody or you work for yourself is what you can offer. I found after a very short time, people forget you have a degree and live in the moment of the project at hand. It's there where you start to build your resume and contacts, and then branch out from that point.
Haven't needed most of it so far, but generally when I do need something I don't know, it's pretty simple to find the necessary information. The main places I've encountered math are: algorithmic analysis (obviously), transformation matrices for graphics coordinate systems, and an interesting hashtable implementation that used stuff from ring theory. The last one I didn't actually work on though; someone else was maintaining that code.
The general message I'm gathering from this thread is "Don't let schooling interfere with your education" 
The general message I'm gathering from this thread is "Don't let schooling interfere with your education"
I think a better way to say it would be "different people follow different paths"; school works very well for many people, just not all of them. Don't let society force you onto a path that doesn't work for you, but realize that alternative paths usually take as much or more work.