Kernel extensions can no longer be installed on external boot drives. Solutions?

[Ru_C]

Hi all, I'm admin for a number of AVID Pro Tools HDX systems that all require a kernel extension called 'Digidal.kext' to communicate between the Pro Tools software & hardware.

For many years now, it's been standard practice to test new O.S revisions on an external drive, before rolling out updates on multiple machines.

It seems that this great practice is now blocked by Apple, alongside the possibility of having a bootable external drive ready to go, in case of internal drive failure.

Are there any workarounds/fixes?

Thanks

 

[chrfr]

Hi all, I'm admin for a number of AVID Pro Tools HDX systems that all require a kernel extension called 'Digital.kext' to communicate between the Pro Tools software & hardware.

For many years now, it's been standard practice to test new O.S revisions on an external drive, before rolling out updates on multiple machines.

It seems that this great practice is now blocked by Apple, alongside the possibility of having a bootable external drive ready to go, in case of internal drive failure.

Are there any workarounds/fixes?

Thanks

Make a new APFS volume on the internal disk and test with that.

Use more than one version of macOS on Mac - Apple Support

If you install a compatible macOS on an additional internal or external storage volume, your Mac can start up from either volume.

support.apple.com

 

[Ru_C]

yes I appreciate it works on an internal apfs volume, but I'm asking if it can be done externally, as it also used to be able to? (I think pre Sonoma)

Partitioning an existing system in a working production environment, is not without some risks, and also needs enough available free space.

It also doesn't address the issue of the internal drive no longer being 'cloneable', as an external boot drive in case of internal drive failure.

thanks

 

[Significant1]

You should still be able to boot from external drive

Install macOS on an external storage device and use it as a startup disk - Apple Support

If you have an external storage device, you can set it up as a Mac startup disk.

support.apple.com

However on Intel machines with t2 security chip, you need to change security settings to allow booting from external driver:

Install macOS on an external storage device and use it as a startup disk - Apple Support

If you have an external storage device, you can set it up as a Mac startup disk.

support.apple.com

Isn’t kext files deprecated and replaced by system extension.

 

[Morac]

Kernel Extensions were deprecated by Apple several MacOS versions ago. Software should be updated to use System Extensions as Kernel Extensions aren’t officially supported anymore and may be removed in a future update.

 

[Ru_C]

I think we may be talking about some terminology difference in that case, as when Pro Tools is installed on an M1Max system running Sequoia , it puts a file called 'Digidal.kext' into Drive/Library/Extensions.

After booting into recovery mode, & reducing the Macs security to allow third party extensions, rebooting, & letting the Mac 'rebuild' the system extension cache, Pro Tools can then communicate with the AVID hardware.

This works as it should on an internal drive.

If I go though the same routine with Sequoia installed on an external drive, the system keeps going into a loop saying 'Rebuilding system extensions cache', asking you to reboot, then the same thing happens again.

There is an apple developer thread about it here, so it looks like it's been an issue since maybe Ventura?

kmutil fails when booted into OS o… | Apple Developer Forums

forums.developer.apple.com

 

[Ben J.]

I find this all a bit shocking. I checked my Library/Extensions folder and while I have some Adobe licensing and Epson printer kexts, I don't have the Digidal.kext, and I'm guessing that's because my PT Studio setup uses Coreaudio. But I do use Eucon with my Artist Mix'es and iPad.

Another reason for staying with Ventura and PT2023.6; it's rock solid.

(I also have a bootable clone of my main disk, on an external, and I can boot from it and run PT in minutes, should my internal fail, not HW failure of course. I wouldn't want to lose that.)

 

[Ru_C]

I find this all a bit shocking. I checked my Library/Extensions folder and while I have some Adobe licensing and Epson printer kexts, I don't have the Digidal.kext, and I'm guessing that's because my PT Studio setup uses Coreaudio. But I do use Eucon with my Artist Mix'es and iPad.

Another reason for staying with Ventura and PT2023.6; it's rock solid.

(I also have a bootable clone of my main disk, on an external, and I can boot from it and run PT in minutes, should my internal fail, not HW failure of course. I wouldn't want to lose that.)

Yes, the extension (or whatever it is!) is only installed if you use AVID HD hardware (HDX, HD native)

 

[Significant1]

Yes, the extension (or whatever it is!) is only installed if you use AVID HD hardware (HDX, HD native)

I think we may be talking about some terminology difference in that case, as when Pro Tools is installed on an M1Max system running Sequoia , it puts a file called 'Digidal.kext' into Drive/Library/Extensions.

After booting into recovery mode, & reducing the Macs security to allow third party extensions, rebooting, & letting the Mac 'rebuild' the system extension cache, Pro Tools can then communicate with the AVID hardware.

This works as it should on an internal drive.

If I go though the same routine with Sequoia installed on an external drive, the system keeps going into a loop saying 'Rebuilding system extensions cache', asking you to reboot, then the same thing happens again.

There is an apple developer thread about it here, so it looks like it's been an issue since maybe Ventura?

kmutil fails when booted into OS o… | Apple Developer Forums

forums.developer.apple.com

I have tried looking up the installation procedure on Avid homepages and latest version only officially support up to Sonoma. So maybe you should wait a bit, till there is official Sequoia support.

I also found threads saying that loading thirdparty kext on external drives has always been a problem on Apple Silicon Macs. So that will likely not change.

 

[Ben J.]

I also found threads saying that loading thirdparty kext on external drives has always been a problem on Apple Silicon Macs. So that will likely not change.

When I boot from my second boot disk which is a volume group on an external drive with the same version of Ventura and the ' - Data' volume cloned and updated daily from my internal via CCC, I do get notifications, or errors if you will. These are mostly app "helpers" needing to have their file/folder access enabled, and similar. CCC, Soundsource, Adobe, background stuff that need access to hardware and stuff. It happens everytime I switch bootdisks, and takes about a minute to do. I've never encountered anything not working on the external boot drive.

 

[Ru_C]

I have tried looking up the installation procedure on Avid homepages and latest version only officially support up to Sonoma. So maybe you should wait a bit, till there is official Sequoia support.

I also found threads saying that loading thirdparty kext on external drives has always been a problem on Apple Silicon Macs. So that will likely not change.

Yes to reiterate once more, when installing Pro Tools HD on Sonoma (officially supported) or Sequoia (currently not yet 'officially supported'), Pro Tools runs absolutely fine on an internal drive partition and communicates with the AVID hardware

When using an *external* install of either of those to OS's, the AVID driver extension fails to 'stick', despite repeatedly going though the same procedure as an 'internal OS drive' install.

This appears to be either some kind of Apple O.S Bug, or an undocumented feature, possibly in the name of security.

 

[Ben J.]

Yes to reiterate once more, when installing Pro Tools HD on Sonoma (officially supported) or Sequoia (currently not yet 'officially supported'), Pro Tools runs absolutely fine on an internal drive partition and communicates with the AVID hardware

When using an *external* install of either of those to OS's, the AVID driver extension fails to 'stick', despite repeatedly going though the same procedure as an 'internal OS drive' install.

This appears to be either some kind of Apple O.S Bug, or an undocumented feature, possibly in the name of security.

I'm still on Ventura with my Pro Tools Studio, but I've installed Sonoma two times, different versions, on an external drive for testing, and PT seemed to run just fine. I'm thinking maybe your HDX drivers might be the problem, not compatible yet, and my PT Studio system works because it runs on CoreAudio.

When using an *external* install of either of those to OS's, the AVID driver extension fails to 'stick', despite repeatedly going though the same procedure as an 'internal OS drive' install.

If by this you mean that you can get it to work, it just needs stuff to be re-enabled every time after switching to the internal and back, then as I said in my previous post:

When I boot from my second boot disk which is a volume group on an external drive with the same version of Ventura and the ' - Data' volume cloned and updated daily from my internal via CCC, I do get notifications, or errors if you will. These are mostly app "helpers" needing to have their file/folder access enabled, and similar.

And this happens every time I boot from the external after having been booted from the internal. I guess it's a kind of 'special status' of the internal drive - you know, you can't boot from an external drive if there isn't a working system on the internal, and all that.

 

[Ru_C]

I'm still on Ventura with my Pro Tools Studio, but I've installed Sonoma two times, different versions, on an external drive for testing, and PT seemed to run just fine. I'm thinking maybe your HDX drivers might be the problem, not compatible yet, and my PT Studio system works because it runs on CoreAudio.


If by this you mean that you can get it to work, it just needs stuff to be re-enabled every time after switching to the internal and back, then as I said in my previous post:

And this happens every time I boot from the external after having been booted from the internal. I guess it's a kind of 'special status' of the internal drive - you know, you can't boot from an external drive if there isn't a working system on the internal, and all that.

yes again, if Pro Tools uses the regular Core Audio drivers (which don't require Kernel extensions) external drives are fine for OS installs.

It's not an AVID specific issue.

I was hoping someone from maybe the Hackintosh Community might have a solution! They are very good at getting around Apples roadblocks. Maybe I should cross-post there. is that 'allowed' on this forum?

 

[chrfr]

I was hoping someone from maybe the Hackintosh Community might have a solution! They are very good at getting around Apples roadblocks. Maybe I should cross-post there. is that 'allowed' on this forum?

It seems very unlikely that Hackintosh users would be able to help as Apple Silicon has different restrictions on extension loading, and of course there’s no Hackintosh possible on any ARM based PCs.