Learning Flash - Complexity Question

[sk3pt1c]

ok, so i've started watching lynda.com tutorials to learn Flash (i need it for my CV) and after the basics i start to realize that to make a simple website that works like a HTML+CSS(and maybe a few lines of Javascript) site, the complexity of the work and the SWF files as well as the ActionScript is just plain ridiculous!
i mean, thumbs up to Flash for allowing people to vent their creative anxieties and so on, but it really sucks when you want to make a "normal" website...
at least that's what i think...
i'm not getting fazed by all the ActionScript, i've done Java programming and it is easy to understand, but it just seems like too much work for no apparent reason!
i will use flash to make a "flash version" of my team's website, but i'm really gonna stick to the creative side and make wild and cool animations and so on and leave the "proper" website stuff for the HTML version of the site...
do you guys find that this is the case in general?


ps. it really pisses me off that here (greece) everyone still asks that you know Flash (and not Dreamweaver, for example) to consider hiring you for a web dev job, whereas the rest of the world has moved beyond that and back to the basics and web standards...
and the thing is that if you try to explain why you don't want to use Flash, the response is "you're just saying that cause you can't use Flash"

 

[zim]

I would agree with your statement of complexity. I can create an entire site, from concept to final product in less then half the time it would take to develop a Flash project.. and I feel very comfortable with Flash, as1.0, 2.0 and have a pretty good handle on 3.0 (still need to check with references when coding). Also important to point out is that upkeep, from my perspective, is much easier when working with web standards then Flash, even when using external objects.

Flash is great but must research studies have proven that it is most effective if advertising a product, showcasing abilities, doing a presentation, use in entertainment such as cartoons, games, etc.. Flash can also be used in education but is often seen best suited as a supplement to the content and not the content itself. Yet, most of the research that I am referring to, sorry for not providing links, was done around 2000-2004 (estimate) and do not take into account some of the new Flash applications.

I honestly believe that in the end Flash will never replace the use of web standards and despite the call for Flash in your area you should promote web standards within your own work. One suggestion for you might be to find a way to combine elements of Flash into your other work. Showing clients how these technologies could potentially work together is part of the designers job. Google is a good example of a company who uses Flash when Flash is needed. I feel that if you give people the option to view a Flash site or a non Flash site, and this is just in my opinion, more people will elect the non Flash site out of bad experience with long loading sequences, animations, sound, etc.. I know others might disagree.

Best and just keep at it.. knowing Flash is a good thing, just don't abandon web standards.

 

[angelneo]

I think both have their place on the internet. If you come from a heavy programming background, you might want to give Adobe Flex a look, Flex takes a more programming approach to Flash applications, although it is more often use to create enterprise online applications and makes it really easy as well, but it is quite limited compared to using Flash CS3. Also, I believe AS3 helps to relieve quite a lot of this complexity and it is a good that Flash has taken this direction.

 

[zim]

I believe AS3 helps to relieve quite a lot of this complexity and it is a good that Flash has taken this direction.

I personally feel that as3.0 has added to the complexity, for designers specifically (lack of an easy authoring mode doesn't help). It takes twice as long to code out simple tasks.. for example, the creation of a button.

Before as3.0:

btnInstance.onRelease = function() {
trace("button clicked");
};

vs. as3.0:

btnInstance.addEventListener(MouseEvent.CLICK, myEvent);
function myEvent(event:MouseEvent):void {
trace("button clicked");
}

Sure, not a whole lot more but times that by say ten or so instances and you have a lot more coding to do. I also think as1.0 was more understandable, felt more like a conversation rather then a programing language, I can understand why many designers are electing to stay with 1.0. I am not saying 1.0 is a better language as I have already seen the benefits of 3.0 just that from a designers perspective it felt more engaging and took less time to author... I am sure I will speak differently of as3.0 later this year as I become more proficient.

 

[angelneo]

I personally feel that as3.0 has added to the complexity, for designers specifically (lack of an easy authoring mode doesn't help). It takes twice as long to code out simple tasks.. for example, the creation of a button.

You may be right. I am coming more from a programmer's point of view though which is maybe why I find it much more structured and cleaner than AS2 and AS1. Removal of stuff like _root, cleaning up of the depths system so on make it so much cleaner.

 

[zim]

You may be right. I am coming more from a programmer's point of view though which is maybe why I find it much more structured and cleaner than AS2 and AS1. Removal of stuff like _root, cleaning up of the depths system so on make it so much cleaner.

I do agree... it is much cleaner and better organized. I am looking forward to the day I can script without aids again

sk3pt1c, hopefully you got something from this.. hehe.

 

[neut]

i mean, thumbs up to Flash for allowing people to vent their creative anxieties and so on, but it really sucks when you want to make a "normal" website...
at least that's what i think...

We wouldn't hire you either.

You need to think a little harder. Your lack of Flash knowledge is not the problem it's your inability to see it's appropriately integrated use.
_

peace | neut

 

[sk3pt1c]

i can see where flash can be used, it's just that in this country's "market" it's a pre-requisite for any web dev job and no one asks for integration, they just want you to make all-flash sites just cause they "look cool"...
anyway, i did get something from all this, thanks guys!
i will continue learning flash and integrate it into my websites when i can and as much as i can, but i think that i will mostly use it to make nice animations just to express my creativity...

 

[neut]

learn as much as you can ... if you know more about the technology then your employer than educate them (to a point; don't give away all your knowledge) and let them see why you will be valuable to them (don't get cocky). if they know more than listen and learn. employers would rather hire a inexperienced person that's willing to learn and do what it takes to do it right rather than a hot headed know it all. if they're just not getting it ... look for another job.

good luck. the industry is full of crappy jobs.
_

go hybrid with your sites. much more interesting and usable.
_

peace | neut