Let’s face the facts, this years iPad update is meaningless

[spiderman0616]

I’m picking up my useless gen 3, 12.9” 256GB in about an hour WooHoo!

I'm at home today waiting for my useless 11" Pro with useless keyboard and useless Pencil to arrive. I feel your pain. I wouldn't be surprised if they're all three bricked after I take them out of the package. Apple is already screwing this all up and I don't even have the stuff yet.

 

[turbineseaplane]

@TrueBlou

All sounds good and makes sense to me!

The problem is that I've seen and heard literally nothing to indicate that Apple has any plan to lead like that on the software front.

By all appearances, they don't much care about first party software anymore, on any of their platforms.
It's really sort of sad..

[doublepost=1541610320][/doublepost]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're all three bricked after I take them out of the package. Apple is already screwing this all up and I don't even have the stuff yet.

That sounds like you ordered a Mac by mistake and are, rightfully, concerned about the BridgeOS crashes.

The 100+ page thread (and counting) is over here..

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rashing-with-bridge-os-error.2128976/page-100

 

[spiderman0616]

Major changes yes. Major improvements to productivity- not so much. I live and work iPad most of the time these days and it’s been a while since those changes made anything better in my workflow.
And the files app... yuck. Documents copy, at best.

And this is why all 6,000 of these threads are so completely useless. If someone says something was good or useful for THEIR workflow, you just move the goal post because it doesn't support YOUR opinion.

 

[turbineseaplane]

And this is why all 6,000 of these threads are so completely useless. If someone says something was good or useful for THEIR workflow, you just move the goal post because it doesn't support YOUR opinion.

You can argue the other way just as well..

The opposite narrative is not useless.
It is a subjective conversation that depends upon ones situation.

 

[TrueBlou]

@turbineseaplane

Yes I have to agree there does seem to be a degree of that with Apple at the moment.

I'm hoping, god help me for being the optimistic type, that having shown recently - with the new Mac mini and Air. That they are starting to pay attention to their customers a bit more. hopefully that will also bring about changes in software.

What I honesty think they need at Apple is someone who will stand up and say exactly what should be done. Get rid of the yes men, who are too afraid of losing their comfy, well paid jobs and get some hard ass in there.

Oh what I wouldn't give to get a job in there. I very much doubt my views would be popular, I very much doubt they'd keep me long before giving me a map to the exit. But by god I'd be doing may damnedest to show them there's a few things not being done right.
(At least so far as it seems from way, way outside Apple )

 

[turbineseaplane]

@turbineseaplane

Yes I have to agree there does seem to be a degree of that with Apple at the moment.

I'm hoping, god help me for being the optimistic type, that having shown recently - with the new Mac mini and Air. That they are starting to pay attention to their customers a bit more. hopefully that will also bring about changes in software.

What I honesty think they need at Apple is someone who will stand up and say exactly what should be done. Get rid of the yes men, who are too afraid of losing their comfy, well paid jobs and get some hard ass in there.

Oh what I wouldn't give to get a job in there. I very much doubt my views would be popular, I very much doubt they'd keep me long before giving me a map to the exit. But by god I'd be doing may damnedest to show them there's a few things not being done right.

Totally agree!
They really need to step up and show leadership on this front.

With the Mac of old, they frequently showed the way on what first class Mac software development should look like (through their own Apps) and they need to do that again here on iOS.

 

[jagolden]

Sounds like the real argument is about the Identity of the IPad Pro. Where does it fit considering its rather amazing price in terms of productivity and usefulness. Sits pretty low still, and no that certainly hasn’t changed!

It is a luxury consumption device that can stretch slightly farther than the other IPads primarily due to the screen size. If you’re happy to be buying it for that, then yes this gen has some nice new changes for you.

‘Luxury consumption device"? If you think that’s all it is that’s because of the low grade apps you have on it.
There are plenty of great productivity apps available if you care to look.
People on many threads have already posted the pro level photo work, drawing, video editing, music writing and editing - the list goes on and on, and I’ll add my name to that list of people using pro level apps that are equivalent to their desktop counterparts.
More power = more productivity. Search out some useful apps, sure you can find some, then you’ll see it’s more than a luxury consumption device.
Short explanation: it is what you make it.

 

[Raist3001]

@turbineseaplaneWhat I honesty think they need at Apple is someone who will stand up and say exactly what should be done.

Remember when Steve Jobs returned and did exactly that? We need another visionary like Steve to take the reigns.

 

[secretk]

That’s the same excuse people used with Mac OS and Windows decades ago and I just don’t buy it, especially as a broad paintbrush. For some audiences, I might agree, but for other areas it certainly is on the developers - users are there and developers are just not taking advantage of it.

Again, still not a fault of the OS itself, but with the developer market.

Call me biased as I am Software Developer but I find this argument rather weird. Or let's just say I disagree with it. Software Developers do not decide on their own what they are working on. The business people define and set priorities, Developers are doing them. I highly doubt that there are a lot of iOS apps out there developed by just one person in their free time. I don't see this happening. Especially when we are talking about productivity apps. Those apps are not developed by one Developer, they are developed by a team.

And as a person that leads software team, I can tell you that the developers themselves are the last ones that drive the business and the direction the app is going. Business people define the business rules, designers define the look and feel and Developers just do the code.

So having in this mind I would say back why the business does not want to invest money and time to develop those apps? You say it's not the iOS. How are you sure? How do you know what iOS provides for Developers to do something? Yes as a Developer I can tell you that almost anything is possible. It's never about what is possible and what not. It's always about what is possible in a reasonable time.

 

[jagolden]

Anyone notice how the OP troll has disappeared now that many others are having differences of opinion.
This was the whole intent of the original trolling.

 

[spiderman0616]

You can argue the other way just as well..

The opposite narrative is not useless.
It is a subjective conversation that depends upon ones situation.

Right but this thread was not presented as "I'm arguing the other way". The title is telling me to "face the facts". I'm all about intelligent discussion. Someone telling me their opinion is the only right answer and telling me what I should and should not buy is not someone I'm going to be able to have an intelligent discussion with.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Anyone notice how the OP troll has disappeared now that many others are having differences of opinion.
This was the whole intent of the original trolling.

He posted late last night in this thread…
Does he have to post every 10 minutes for you to say he hasn’t “disappeared”?
[doublepost=1541611917][/doublepost]

Right but this thread was not presented as "I'm arguing the other way". The title is telling me to "face the facts". I'm all about intelligent discussion. Someone telling me their opinion is the only right answer and telling me what I should and should not buy is not someone I'm going to be able to have an intelligent discussion with.

I guess I haven’t seen anything in this thread that has presented a cogent argument that this upgrade is not basically useless in terms of new capabilities. I think that assertion is actually pretty sound because the new abilities are going to need to come from the iOS software itself.

iPad hardware has been overwhelmingly overpowering for a long time now. iOS is what keeps holding back new and interesting things being done with the hardware.
[doublepost=1541611983][/doublepost]iPads do not need any new hardware innovations right now or even in the next year or two.

They need iOS to grow up and fast and Apple to show us the way on what first class development of iPad software looks like.

Literally everything the iPad needs right now is on the software side

 

[Aluminum213]

Those who can’t seem to emotionally handle criticism obviously are just trying to defend the new purchase, it’s so laughably obvious. I usually find myself upgrading my iPad every year but this is the first time in years where I have a very difficult time seeing the point. iOS 12 is the same on a 2017 or 2018 iPad Pro, zero difference. Just a $200 price hike to not have a home button. Screen is the same, no noticeable difference in performance, last years model was already blazing fast. Same 4GB of RAM, I can go on and on...

 

[turbineseaplane]

The best new thing is the pencil and how it attaches if I had to pick something…

Of course to get that you have to get an all new device and pencil.

$$$

 

[Dammit Cubs]

Apple pencil 3 will have double side pens like darth maul's saber

 

[spiderman0616]

Those who can’t seem to emotionally handle criticism obviously are just trying to defend the new purchase, it’s so laughably obvious. I usually find myself upgrading my iPad every year but this is the first time in years where I have a very difficult time seeing the point. iOS 12 is the same on a 2017 or 2018 iPad Pro, zero difference. Just a $200 price hike to not have a home button. Screen is the same, no noticeable difference in performance, last years model was already blazing fast. Same 4GB of RAM, I can go on and on...

Please--yes--continue going on and on.

 

[The Game 161]

Those who can’t seem to emotionally handle criticism obviously are just trying to defend the new purchase, it’s so laughably obvious. I usually find myself upgrading my iPad every year but this is the first time in years where I have a very difficult time seeing the point. iOS 12 is the same on a 2017 or 2018 iPad Pro, zero difference. Just a $200 price hike to not have a home button. Screen is the same, no noticeable difference in performance, last years model was already blazing fast. Same 4GB of RAM, I can go on and on...

Please don’t

You’ve made your point clear.

I’m sure people on older iPads will be happy just as the people who have upgraded

To me it is a good improvement. Smaller body/more screen for less body/no more wasted space

Somebody who’s upgrading from 10.5 it’s what I wanted for work and at home. 10.5 was good but a bigger screen was needed.

For many this won’t replace laptops but for me it will do.

Software needs to Change for it to be a laptop for more people and hopefully by IOS 13 it will

 

[Dammit Cubs]

I think the real question is would you have apple have done nothing and just updated the SOC and called it a day? The price talk is one thing, but it seems that this refresh a better refresh than Gen 1 to Gen 2...

Apple is criticized for actually changing the design language and if they don't change it, they are criticized. Damned if you do and damned if you dont'.

 

[bensisko]

Call me biased as I am Software Developer but I find this argument rather weird. Or let's just say I disagree with it. Software Developers do not decide on their own what they are working on. The business people define and set priorities, Developers are doing them. I highly doubt that there are a lot of iOS apps out there developed by just one person in their free time. I don't see this happening. Especially when we are talking about productivity apps. Those apps are not developed by one Developer, they are developed by a team.

And as a person that leads software team, I can tell you that the developers themselves are the last ones that drive the business and the direction the app is going. Business people define the business rules, designers define the look and feel and Developers just do the code.

So having in this mind I would say back why the business does not want to invest money and time to develop those apps? You say it's not the iOS. How are you sure? How do you know what iOS provides for Developers to do something? Yes as a Developer I can tell you that almost anything is possible. It's never about what is possible and what not. It's always about what is possible in a reasonable time.

In my mind it’s somewhat semantics, i’m talking Adobe as a developer and not necessarily one specific job title. Third party developers.

 

[ericwn]

And this is why all 6,000 of these threads are so completely useless. If someone says something was good or useful for THEIR workflow, you just move the goal post because it doesn't support YOUR opinion.

You can feel free to skip any criticism if it upsets you too much. I am an existing user and sharing my view - as we all do. In my life iOS 11 hasn’t brought much positive changes that would enhance my productivity.

Until that happens any changes to the hardware itself won’t be to my benefit, apart from the convenience gained by Face ID and a lighter device - which is what the OP had on his/her mind too I suppose.

 

[bensisko]

You think there's a large untapped market of ready to pay users that developers are just ignoring?
Why would they do that?

It's pretty easy to say "build it and they will come!" (hopefully) when you're talking about someone else taking the time and financial risk to "find out".

The iPad line is not new and very little has been added hardware wise in the last few years that would change the developer proposition story. I guess the great hope is around new ideas with the pencils, but even that interaction is not new and mostly unchanged since launch also.

What's recently changed that makes you think (or hope) Developers will come rushing in now?
[doublepost=1541609087][/doublepost]

Easy to ask someone else to do that with their time and money with very little evidence there's a gold mine waiting for them, wouldn't you say?

Let's see how it goes with Adobe's PS effort - still unclear how great or not that will be with all new interaction methods. It demo's well, but that's very different that professional workflows and systems with ingrained habits and methods.

I ABSOLUTELY think there is a huge untapped resource out there. It comes down to a matter of perception. MAYBE six years ago I would agree the OS wasn’t strong enough or the hardware wasn’t strong enough to support full applications, but that hasn’t been true for a while now - the hardware is there and the OS is pretty robust. I think, to a large extent, developers WANT to think of their applications as mobile when it’s on a laptop.

For further discussion, look at how many developers are still developing x86 instead of Universal Windows apps - even though a universal app can be installed on more Windows devices (desktop/laptop/mobile/Hololens), but they JUSt don’t and it holds a platform, and progress, back.

 

[secretk]

In my mind it’s somewhat semantics, i’m talking Adobe as a developer and not necessarily one specific job title. Third party developers.

For me it's not semantics but to each their own. For me when we use the collective of Developers we omit one really important part - business. Business relates to money. You have to ask yourself why Adobe did not do this before? Maybe because they can't profit from this. This is why for me it's not semantics. Skewing details sometimes leads to wrong conclusions.

Like I said we are of course free to disagree with each other.

 

[Raist3001]

The best new thing is the pencil and how it attaches if I had to pick something…

Of course to get that you have to get an all new device and pencil.

$$$

Speaking of the pencil, what technical issues are there that prevent the previous pencil from working on the new iPad? I can charge my pencil via a lightning cable with the included adapter. So the new iPad not having a lightning port is hardly a reason to drop compatibility.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Speaking of the pencil, what technical issues are there that prevent the previous pencil from working on the new iPad? I can charge my pencil via a lightning cable with the included adapter. So the new iPad not having a lightning port is hardly a reason to drop compatibility.

As far as I can tell there is no technical limitation.

 

[Aluminum213]

Speaking of the pencil, what technical issues are there that prevent the previous pencil from working on the new iPad? I can charge my pencil via a lightning cable with the included adapter. So the new iPad not having a lightning port is hardly a reason to drop compatibility.

Apple wants you to pay a minimum of $799 to have the honor of buying the new Apple Pencil, it's that simple