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Lion to Snow Leopard problems

prmccarron

prmccarron

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 7, 2009
134
0
Ever since I got Lion, my almost one year old, mid-2010 MacBook Pro could easily be mistaken for one from five years ago (minus its design). Kernel panics became a daily event, HDMI and other external devices don't always work, Time Machine backups take hours (not just the first after upgrading), etc. So what I wanted to do is downgrade back to Snow Leopard. I've tried multiple methods (format then reinstall from OS install DVD, partition and install, etc) but it seems there is a common problem: after moving my files over, I can't access Snow Leopard unless in safe mode. After the boot sequence, when I get to the part where I would normally have my log in screen, it goes to a bright blue screen and sticks there. My guess is it's caused by some system files/drivers etc., but I'm not sure how to not include those. So what I'm asking is either (a) How can I not include system files in Time Machine backups, or (b) How can I not move those over while moving everything else (Users, Applications etc) from Migration Assistant? Thanks for any help.
 
prmccarron said:
Ever since I got Lion, my almost one year old, mid-2010 MacBook Pro could easily be mistaken for one from five years ago (minus its design). Kernel panics became a daily event, HDMI and other external devices don't always work, Time Machine backups take hours (not just the first after upgrading), etc. So what I wanted to do is downgrade back to Snow Leopard. I've tried multiple methods (format then reinstall from OS install DVD, partition and install, etc) but it seems there is a common problem: after moving my files over, I can't access Snow Leopard unless in safe mode. After the boot sequence, when I get to the part where I would normally have my log in screen, it goes to a bright blue screen and sticks there. My guess is it's caused by some system files/drivers etc., but I'm not sure how to not include those. So what I'm asking is either (a) How can I not include system files in Time Machine backups, or (b) How can I not move those over while moving everything else (Users, Applications etc) from Migration Assistant? Thanks for any help.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a Logic Board or Hard Drive issues, Kernal Panics arnt just something that happens. It is almost always caused by Hardware level problems. Get it to an Apple Store, its should be under warranty still.
 
WAM2 said:
Sounds like a Logic Board or Hard Drive issues, Kernal Panics arnt just something that happens. It is almost always caused by Hardware level problems. Get it to an Apple Store, its should be under warranty still.
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A number of people have complained about Kernel Panics under Lion, and they went away once they installed Snow Leopard again. I would recommend that, but you can certainly take it to an Apple store. If you run Snow Leopard fine on a different partition or external drive just fine, I'd like to hear their explanation. =)
 
WAM2 said:
Sounds like a Logic Board or Hard Drive issues, Kernal Panics arnt just something that happens. It is almost always caused by Hardware level problems. Get it to an Apple Store, its should be under warranty still.
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Nope, it is Lion that does this...

I loaded SL back on clean and then used the migration assistant to put my old account back on then instead of using migration assistant for the rest, I simply mounted the backup drive and copied what I wanted back over. I had to reinstall the applications, but I have had no problems since.
 
jameslmoser said:
A number of people have complained about Kernel Panics under Lion, and they went away once they installed Snow Leopard again. I would recommend that, but you can certainly take it to an Apple store. If you run Snow Leopard fine on a different partition or external drive just fine, I'd like to hear their explanation. =)
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Most Kernal Panic Problems were Fixed in 10.7.1

Only Solution is to take it to an apple store.
 
wpotere said:
Funny, I still had kernel panics in 10.7.1 and the wife still does on her MBA. Try again...
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I'm Running Lion on 4 Machines and have Never had an Issue but One issue on my iMac (Mid 2010) With the WiFi Dropping. I Am Writing this on a MacBook (Mid 2007) And it runs flawless. It runs fine on my Mac Mini and MacBook Pro also. If your having kernel panics its because of something the user installed, or modified. Now if you upgraded there may have been a transfer of an incompatible file, if your computer came with lion, then You shouldn't be complaining about Kernal Panics, you should be taking it to an apple store and having it fixed or replaced, Kernal Panics are almost ALWAYS Hardware Problems, Rarely a modified System file or incompatible app/file will cause it.

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jameslmoser said:
No, the only solution is to put a reliable OS back on it. I will bet money it won't kernel panic (or BSOD) with windows either.
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Lion is an extremely reliable OS. If you actually read about it, you would see it is the exact same thing as Snow leopard with Updated & Added features. Do you remember when Snow leopard came out all the problems? It got fixed and everyone was happy. Give apple some time. If you don't like it don't use it. Most Kernal Panics are actually hardware or user caused problems.
 
WAM2 said:
I'm Running Lion on 4 Machines and have Never had an Issue but One issue on my iMac (Mid 2010) With the WiFi Dropping. I Am Writing this on a MacBook (Mid 2007) And it runs flawless. It runs fine on my Mac Mini and MacBook Pro also. If your having kernel panics its because of something the user installed, or modified. Now if you upgraded there may have been a transfer of an incompatible file, if your computer came with lion, then You shouldn't be complaining about Kernal Panics, you should be taking it to an apple store and having it fixed or replaced, Kernal Panics are almost ALWAYS Hardware Problems, Rarely a modified System file or incompatible app/file will cause it.
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OK, first the OP didn't just get his laptop, it is a mid 2010 which means he is installing it for the first time. Secondly there are numerous threads of Lion causing kernel panics on machines that ran fine on SL. Put your pom poms down long enough to realize that some people are experiencing real problems and that we are starting to see increased complaints.
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WAM2 said:
Lion is an extremely reliable OS. If you actually read about it, you would see it is the exact same thing as Snow leopard with Updated & Added features. Do you remember when Snow leopard came out all the problems? It got fixed and everyone was happy. Give apple some time. If you don't like it don't use it. Most Kernal Panics are actually hardware or user caused problems.
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I personally don't have to read about the reliablity. Of the 5 Macs (various years) running it 4 have issues with WiFi and 3 that produce kernel panics randomly. So, from my point of view the "reliability" you speak of is gone. All 4 are back on SL and running great. If it was hardware it would have happened on SL as well.

Now, I know you are probably going to say that I probably loaded my profile and it is something in my profile (oh wait, you said it was ALWAYS hardware) that is causing the problem. Well, on these 4 machine we loaded them from scratch and created new accounts with fresh app installs and they still had problems.

Yes, it is a new OS and yes, it has issues. Apple needs to get the bugs worked out but then again maybe they should have released it until it was ready.
 
wpotere said:
OK, first the OP didn't just get his laptop, it is a mid 2010 which means he is installing it for the first time. Secondly there are numerous threads of Lion causing kernel panics on machines that ran fine on SL. Put your pom poms down long enough to realize that some people are experiencing real problems and that we are starting to see increased complaints.
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I personally don't have to read about the reliablity. Of the 5 Macs (various years) running it 4 have issues with WiFi and 3 that produce kernel panics randomly. So, from my point of view the "reliability" you speak of is gone. All 4 are back on SL and running great. If it was hardware it would have happened on SL as well.

Now, I know you are probably going to say that I probably loaded my profile and it is something in my profile (oh wait, you said it was ALWAYS hardware) that is causing the problem. Well, on these 4 machine we loaded them from scratch and created new accounts with fresh app installs and they still had problems.

Yes, it is a new OS and yes, it has issues. Apple needs to get the bugs worked out but then again maybe they should have released it until it was ready.
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I Never said he had a new mac. Also You missed my keyword *MOST* Kernal Panics are caused by Hardware issues or incompatible files/profiles/applications/ect. In your case you are having some kind of issue with the actual OS. If People would actually Submit the problem to apple to have them fix it instead of downgrading to an aging Operating system people wouldn't complain. Since you have 5 Machines maybe actually try to submit the problem to apple or give us the Console History after you boot it back up, it could very well be that you have a bad disk,USB, or download. But we wouldn't know because people don't seem to want to help apple and other people fix it! I Am going to be getting my Apple and Microsoft Certification This year and Has a passion for both. Its People that complain about issues on something that Apple or Microsoft put Months and years of time into and they hate it, The problem cause Easily be fixed if people would stop complaining and Sending Console Reports and Pictures of the problem into apple or microsoft.
 
WAM2 said:
I Never said he had a new mac. Also You missed my keyword *MOST* Kernal Panics are caused by Hardware issues or incompatible files/profiles/applications/ect. In your case you are having some kind of issue with the actual OS. If People would actually Submit the problem to apple to have them fix it instead of downgrading to an aging Operating system people wouldn't complain. Since you have 5 Machines maybe actually try to submit the problem to apple or give us the Console History after you boot it back up, it could very well be that you have a bad disk,USB, or download. But we wouldn't know because people don't seem to want to help apple and other people fix it! I Am going to be getting my Apple and Microsoft Certification This year and Has a passion for both. Its People that complain about issues on something that Apple or Microsoft put Months and years of time into and they hate it, The problem cause Easily be fixed if people would stop complaining and Sending Console Reports and Pictures of the problem into apple or microsoft.
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What makes you think that I haven't spoken to Apple and sent them reports?

As for my background, I have been working with computers for 20+ years starting with circuit level repair now working as a C# programmer/DBA. So, I have a solid background in computers and a lot of work as a UNIX admin as well. If you want to be a good tech, you need to be more objective and not claim that Lion is bullet proof. Nobody is saying that Lion won't be a solid OS but it wasn't really ready for prime time in my opinion. Nevertheless to those not having problem, great, but for us that are SL is still a solid option until Apple can get its act together.
 
wpotere said:
What makes you think that I haven't spoken to Apple and sent them reports?

As for my background, I have been working with computers for 20+ years starting with circuit level repair now working as a C# programmer/DBA. So, I have a solid background in computers and a lot of work as a UNIX admin as well. If you want to be a good tech, you need to be more objective and not claim that Lion is bullet proof. Nobody is saying that Lion won't be a solid OS but it wasn't really ready for prime time in my opinion. Nevertheless to those not having problem, great, but for us that are SL is still a solid option until Apple can get its act together.
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"Until Apple can get its act together" Where did that come from? Apple has nothing to get together, I Can Guarantee they are replicating and fixing the problem as we speak. Its Not their fault rather the Tension and timeframe they have to get their OS Out. How About you try to create an OS for millions of people to use. Its a challenging task I Can imagine. As for your experience, thats great, I Don't Program, But I Have A Solid Background in computers.. People like to show off with their Degrees and such, But A True Computer guy don't need that To know the stuff. I Am getting my certification because It can help with jobs. But Its not going to teach me things i don't already know. Just like when your getting a degree.. If you love computers and actually know them, you don't think about going to college for it first IMO.. Certification is where it is at if you already know things. I KNow this is sidetracked but just thought i would say it.. Circuit level experience doesn't have anything to do with the bugs.. Apple will fix it, and unless you are having a kernel panic everyday then there is no need to downgrade. And since you have experience with computers why don't you take a look at he console report and check it out. Maybe you can fix your own crash or issue.
 
WAM2 said:
"Until Apple can get its act together" Where did that come from? Apple has nothing to get together, I Can Guarantee they are replicating and fixing the problem as we speak. Its Not their fault rather the Tension and timeframe they have to get their OS Out. How About you try to create an OS for millions of people to use. Its a challenging task I Can imagine. As for your experience, thats great, I Don't Program, But I Have A Solid Background in computers.. People like to show off with their Degrees and such, But A True Computer guy don't need that To know the stuff. I Am getting my certification because It can help with jobs. But Its not going to teach me things i don't already know. Just like when your getting a degree.. If you love computers and actually know them, you don't think about going to college for it first IMO.. Certification is where it is at if you already know things. I KNow this is sidetracked but just thought i would say it.. Circuit level experience doesn't have anything to do with the bugs.. Apple will fix it, and unless you are having a kernel panic everyday then there is no need to downgrade. And since you have experience with computers why don't you take a look at he console report and check it out. Maybe you can fix your own crash or issue.
Click to expand...

Wow, fanboi much? Yes, get their act together. If I released a product that doesn't work as advertised, I wouldn't have a job very long. You must have missed the part where I am now a programmer. I started doing circuit level repairs on radios and built a Sinclair ZX-81 kit as a kid and yes, I have looked at the dumps and logs. Maybe you can teach me more? :rolleyes:

Not sure why you feel the need to pick at fight here.
 
WAM2 said:
"Until Apple can get its act together" Where did that come from? Apple has nothing to get together, I Can Guarantee they are replicating and fixing the problem as we speak. Its Not their fault rather the Tension and timeframe they have to get their OS Out. How About you try to create an OS for millions of people to use. Its a challenging task I Can imagine. As for your experience, thats great, I Don't Program, But I Have A Solid Background in computers.. People like to show off with their Degrees and such, But A True Computer guy don't need that To know the stuff. I Am getting my certification because It can help with jobs. But Its not going to teach me things i don't already know. Just like when your getting a degree.. If you love computers and actually know them, you don't think about going to college for it first IMO.. Certification is where it is at if you already know things. I KNow this is sidetracked but just thought i would say it.. Circuit level experience doesn't have anything to do with the bugs.. Apple will fix it, and unless you are having a kernel panic everyday then there is no need to downgrade. And since you have experience with computers why don't you take a look at he console report and check it out. Maybe you can fix your own crash or issue.
Click to expand...

I actually do program. In multiple languages and have even committed patches to open source software which apple uses. If Microsoft released an OS in this state it would get horrible reviews and people would complain... actually that did happen, it was Windows Vista. Vista was more stable than Lion, and ran on a much large computer hardware base, it was just very slow and annoying to use. And boy did people respond! Microsoft has since created Windows 7, a huge improvement.

Why should Apple get a pass because they released something that was so unstable? Its their fault they don't have a wide beta release. Its their fault they have that whole hush hush mentality for everything. Its their fault Lion wasn't ready when it was released. It could have been pushed back. They did it before with an OS release because they were too focused on iOS. They should have done it now.

Stop drinking the Apple cool aid there guy... admit this wasn't apple's greatest product, and then they will learn from their mistakes and hopefully not do it again, or at the very least learn a little.
 
jameslmoser said:
I actually do program. In multiple languages and have even committed patches to open source software which apple uses. If Microsoft released an OS in this state it would get horrible reviews and people would complain... actually that did happen, it was Windows Vista. Vista was more stable than Lion, and ran on a much large computer hardware base, it was just very slow and annoying to use. And boy did people respond! Microsoft has since created Windows 7, a huge improvement.

Why should Apple get a pass because they released something that was so unstable? Its their fault they don't have a wide beta release. Its their fault they have that whole hush hush mentality for everything. Its their fault Lion wasn't ready when it was released. It could have been pushed back. They did it before with an OS release because they were too focused on iOS. They should have done it now.

Stop drinking the Apple cool aid there guy... admit this wasn't apple's greatest product, and then they will learn from their mistakes and hopefully not do it again, or at the very least learn a little.
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"admit this wasn't apple's greatest product, and then they will learn from their mistakes and hopefully not do it again, or at the very least learn a little."

I Wont admit anything, Lion runs great for me, no problems. It is fast and I love its features.. They didn't have any mistakes, if you actually did program you would know that When new features come, new bugs come, and when new fixes come, more problems arise, nothing is perfect like you seem to think. And Maybe YOU should learn a little as you don't seem to have any knowledge on computers. I Could go on for days about this but you wouldn't learn so there is no need to waste MY time. Lion is great. Oh and By the way, there were betas of Lion, if you didn't know.
 
WAM2 said:
"admit this wasn't apple's greatest product, and then they will learn from their mistakes and hopefully not do it again, or at the very least learn a little."

I Wont admit anything, Lion runs great for me, no problems. It is fast and I love its features.. They didn't have any mistakes, if you actually did program you would know that When new features come, new bugs come, and when new fixes come, more problems arise, nothing is perfect like you seem to think. And Maybe YOU should learn a little as you don't seem to have any knowledge on computers. I Could go on for days about this but you wouldn't learn so there is no need to waste MY time. Lion is great. Oh and By the way, there were betas of Lion, if you didn't know.
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I am starting to find you rather amusing. You clearly don't get it.:rolleyes:
 
WAM2 said:
"admit this wasn't apple's greatest product, and then they will learn from their mistakes and hopefully not do it again, or at the very least learn a little."

I Wont admit anything, Lion runs great for me, no problems. It is fast and I love its features.. They didn't have any mistakes, if you actually did program you would know that When new features come, new bugs come, and when new fixes come, more problems arise, nothing is perfect like you seem to think. And Maybe YOU should learn a little as you don't seem to have any knowledge on computers. I Could go on for days about this but you wouldn't learn so there is no need to waste MY time. Lion is great. Oh and By the way, there were betas of Lion, if you didn't know.
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Seriously, what are you like 5?

Yes bugs happen in code, and you fix them. Thats the whole point of a betas and the development process. But there is a point when something is considered ready for release, and when its still in development. Snow Leopard I'm sure has bugs, but it is stable. The same can not be said for Lion. Yes there was betas of Lion, only for paying developers. You seriously think thats enough for an operating system that is suppose to run millions of programs that these paying developers don't develop or use?
 
jameslmoser said:
Seriously, what are you like 5?

Yes bugs happen in code, and you fix them. Thats the whole point of a betas and the development process. But there is a point when something is considered ready for release, and when its still in development. Snow Leopard I'm sure has bugs, but it is stable. The same can not be said for Lion. Yes there was betas of Lion, only for paying developers. You seriously think thats enough for an operating system that is suppose to run millions of programs that these paying developers don't develop or use?
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Has been for the past 10 years. Do you expect a company to make a beta for anyone to use when they are charging $30 for it? Sure Microsoft can do it because their OS Costs hundreds and gets millions from PC Manufactures for their OS to be on the computer. Lion is extremely stable for me! I AM SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. You Clearly don't GET IT. Maybe your the one who is 5.
 
WAM2 said:
Has been for the past 10 years. Do you expect a company to make a beta for anyone to use when they are charging $30 for it? Sure Microsoft can do it because their OS Costs hundreds and gets millions from PC Manufactures for their OS to be on the computer. Lion is extremely stable for me! I AM SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. You Clearly don't GET IT. Maybe your the one who is 5.
Click to expand...

Thats great, now go speak for yourself somewhere else. I was speaking to the OP, who by the way, doesn't seem to share your experience with Lion.
 
WAM2 said:
Has been for the past 10 years. Do you expect a company to make a beta for anyone to use when they are charging $30 for it? Sure Microsoft can do it because their OS Costs hundreds and gets millions from PC Manufactures for their OS to be on the computer. Lion is extremely stable for me! I AM SPEAKING FOR MYSELF. You Clearly don't GET IT. Maybe your the one who is 5.
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Yep, he's the noob.... :rolleyes:

jameslmoser, there is no point discussing this any further with him as he clearly only wants to argue. ;)
 
WAM2 said:
I'll admit Lions got some bugs and issues, Its stable for me, but may not be for other people.. I'll Agree.
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I bagged on you in another thread. Let's just say welcome to the club.

On those three machines it was happening 8 times a day. After 10.0.1 it was a little better but still happening. SL was a solution that was feasible until they can fix Lion.
 
wpotere said:
I bagged on you in another thread. Let's just say welcome to the club.

On those three machines it was happening 8 times a day. After 10.0.1 it was a little better but still happening. SL was a solution that was feasible until they can fix Lion.
Click to expand...

What Mac were you running Cheetah on?
 
Funny, I cant even use AUTOMATIC GRAPHICS SWITCHING without it giving me Kernel Panics and freezing at the login screen. Seems Apple who is all anal about battery would at least get that fixed so I can run the integrated graphics card.
 
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