List of Mac models that can do 2560x1600 natively on external monitors?

[Riot Nrrrd]

I have a couple of Macs+monitor setups at home.

I used to work from home on my Mid 2010 Mac Pro cheese grater with a 30” Apple Cinema Display.

But then work banned using personal devices so I brought home my previous work Mac, a 2012 Mac mini.

Meanwhile, I had purchased an LG 34” UltraWide 5K2K display (34BK95U-W) in anticipation of buying an Apple Silicon Mac. (Still hasn’t happened yet. Oops.)

The 2012 Mac mini will only do 1920x1080 with the LG display. According to the specs, supposedly it can do up to 2560x1600 on an external monitor via Thunderbolt.

I went to test this out with my 30” Cinema HD Display, but it’s unfortunately on the fritz right now.

I know many 2010s-era MacBook Pros had 2560x1600 on their internal screens, but I’m wondering which Mac models support it natively on external monitors. (I’m assuming that most recent Macs support 4K, but not 2560x1600.)

Any ideas?

 

[PaulD-UK]

Most Macs of that era support an external display of 2560x1600, because this was the resolution of the 30" Apple Cinema Display.
But only using the DisplayPort protocol, HDMI in that era was only 1920x1080.

After Apple stopped using their own ADC monitor connector, up to 2010 Macs had a miniDP output socket, then in 2011 the same socket became Thunderbolt 1, which carried a DP signal.

So the 2012 mini has a TB1 output socket, and can connect to a monitor using a cable which supports DP 1.2 or higher, connecting the miniDP port on your mini to the DP/miniDP input socket on your monitor.

More recent Macs which support 4K can be made to work with 2560x1600 DP monitors with appropriate cabling, as Thunderbolt 3 also uses the DP protocol.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Thanks @PaulD-UK - good to know.

I tried an experiment. I plugged the Thunderbolt 1 cable from my 2012 Mac mini into a StarTech Thunderbolt 2 docking station, and from there ran a DP cable from the StarTech to the LG 5K2K display.

SwitchResX gave me two options for > 1080p; 3440x1440 @50Hz (PAL) and 3840x2160 @30Hz (NTSC), neither of which worked - the screen is garbled in both cases. 2560x1600 is not listed, because I don’t think the LG monitor supports it.

So I went back to 1920x1080 @60Hz (NTSC) which works but is non-optimal for my work.

I guess I should’ve mentioned why I posted this question.

If my 30” Cinema HD Display is truly dead and can’t be resuscitated, I suppose I could buy a Dell monitor that does 2560x1600 to tide me over with the 2012 Mac mini. But I’m retiring in about a year, and me paying for a new monitor that I’d be using with the work computer seems a bit silly if it’s not useful to have with any other Mac. (I could get a used/spare monitor from work to take home, but I could almost guarantee it wouldn’t do 2560x1600 so there’s no point in taking that route.)

So I thought knowing what other Macs can drive an external monitor at 2560x1600 would be useful to know.

(Since I posted the OP, I discovered that my Mid 2010 cheese grater’s AMD Radeon HD 7950 Sapphire Mac Edition video card also has an HDMI and 2 miniDP connectors in addition to the dual DVI I’ve been using all these years; I thought maybe I could connect it to the LG - but apparently when you boot the miniDP port uses DP 1.1a so if your monitor doesn’t do 1.1a, the Mac won’t boot unless you have a 2nd monitor attached that can do 1.1a for use as the boot screen. Ugh … )

P.S. I just went to Everymac and did a filter based on 2nd display Max. resolution of 2560x1600. It looks like the last Macs to support that resolution were the 2014 Mac minis, iMacs and MacBook Pros. That seems to corroborate what @PaulD-UK wrote. So I guess I answered my original question …

 

[Boyd01]

But only using the DisplayPort protocol, HDMI in that era was only 1920x1080.

Just a nitpick there. I have an ancient Apple 23" Cinema Display HD with a 16:10 aspect ratio at 1920 x 1200. It was supported on the 2012 Mini over HDMI, Apple even included an HDMI to DVI adapter with the 2012 Mini to facilitate that.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Yes, I have one of those HDMI-to-DVI adapters with my 2012 Mac mini as well. Never considered trying it as I assumed it would not do 2560x1600.

 

[PaulD-UK]

@Riot Nrrrd Your LG UltraWide 5K2K has a 21:9 aspect ratio, so can only work at 16:9 (or 16:10) aspect ratios if it is working as a Television, with non-square pixels (which is how digital TV is encoded), and not as a computer monitor.

As LG make as many TVs as computer monitors your monitor understands this, but that doesn't make it work as a monitor.
In DTV, PAL pixels are elongated horizontally, and NTSC pixels are narroweded vertically, hence the wide 3440x1440 PAL format, and narrowed 3840x2160 NTSC format that SwitchResX tries to offer.

I assumed you were thinking about connecting to your 30" 2560x1600 monitor...
A Dell U30*** 30" monitor works fine with every Mac that worked with a 30" ACD, as long as the cables are appropriate.

Your 5K2K needs a modern Mac....

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

@Riot Nrrrd I assumed you were thinking about connecting to your 30" 2560x1600 monitor...
A Dell U30*** 30" monitor works fine with every Mac that worked with a 30" ACD, as long as the cables are appropriate.

Your 5K2K needs a modern Mac....

I discovered that the Sapphire card has a “virtual display” mode, so even with the 30” Cinema HD Display being disconnected, I can use Screen Sharing to connect in (from the LG) to the cheese grater and still use it. Phew!

In the morning I’ll disconnect everything from the ACD and disconnect the power for 15 seconds to see if that resuscitates it or not. If it does, I’ll try connecting the 2012 Mac mini up to it. If it doesn’t, I’ll have to consider the Dell. (I have a Dell U30* at work so yes, I know they work at 2560x1600.)

And yes, you are exactly right - my LG needs a new Mac. I’ve been hemming and hawing (M4 Mac mini? M4 MacBook Pro? 🤷‍♂️ ) but I’ve found out from these Forums that the default scaled display (3840x1620 HiDPI) for UltraWide monitors like mine is mysteriously not supported on M4 Macs, so I’ve gone back to sitting on my hands

 

[Boyd01]

Yes, I have one of those HDMI-to-DVI adapters with my 2012 Mac mini as well. Never considered trying it as I assumed it would not do 2560x1600.

Don't think that will work, AFAIK 1920 x 1200 is the maximum it will support. See this

"This model simultaneously supports 1920x1200 on an HDMI display or a DVI display using the included HDMI-to-DVI adapter..."

 

[Amethyst1]

P.S. I just went to Everymac and did a filter based on 2nd display Max. resolution of 2560x1600. It looks like the last Macs to support that resolution were the 2014 Mac minis, iMacs and MacBook Pros.

That's not quite what EveryMac says. Those Macs will do 2560×1600 at 60 Hz maximum externally because of either a DisplayPort 1.1a/Thunderbolt 1 limitation or a GPU limitation (for the 2014 minis which have DisplayPort 1.2/Thunderbolt 2).

The 2012 Mac mini will only do 1920x1080 with the LG display. According to the specs, supposedly it can do up to 2560x1600 on an external monitor via Thunderbolt.

The GPU in the 2012 Mac mini is subject to an artificial pixel clock limit to 270 MHz via DisplayPort/Thunderbolt, and to 165 MHz via HDMI.

I’m assuming that most recent Macs support 4K, but not 2560x1600.)

That would not make sense. Newer Macs will do higher resolutions and refresh rates - such as 4K at 60 Hz - due to higher pixel clock limits and that implies they'll do 2560×1600 at 60 Hz as well.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

That's not what EveryMac says. Those Macs will do 2560x1600 at 60 Hz maximum externally because of either a DisplayPort 1.1a/Thunderbolt 1 limitation or a GPU limitation (for the 2014 minis which have Thunderbolt 2).

Not sure why you say “That’s not what EveryMac says”? I’m just reporting the filter results.

Mainly I am trying to talk myself out of buying a 2560x1600 monitor mainly for use with a work Mac (no, they won’t reimburse me). But if my 30” Apple Cinema HD Display is really dead, I won’t have much choice if I want to do better with the work Mac.

The GPU in the 2012 Mac mini is subject to an artificial pixel clock limit to 270 MHz via DisplayPort/Thunderbolt, and to 165 MHz via HDMI.

I assume “270 MHz” corresponds to 2560x1600?

That would not make sense. Newer Macs will do higher resolutions and refresh rates - such as 4K at 60 Hz - due to higher pixel clock limits and that implies they'll do 2560x1600 at 60 Hz as well.

I was assuming that because the newer Macs do 4K/5K/6K that they had left “old” oddball resolutions like 2560x1600 behind. I read that entire megathread about the problems M4 Macs have with UltraWide monitors and anytime someone posted a screen shot of the listed available resolutions, I never saw 2560x1600 listed.

Maybe that’s more a function of the monitors in use by the posters involved ... they probably don’t support that resolution. I should probably stop posting until I’ve seen if my ACD is dead, or have bought a new 2560x1600 monitor and tested things.

(But this is getting OT for this thread.)

 

[Bug-Creator]

"This model simultaneously supports 1920x1200 on an HDMI display or a DVI display using the included HDMI-to-DVI adapter..."

1920x1200 is so close to 1920x1080 that barely anybody lists it these days.
As for the adapter it will for sure not go higher (unless you lower the refresh rate) as it only "converts" 1 DVI-link to HDMI (or DP) which all are pretty much the same format anyways.
Higher resolutions on DVI were done with DualLink outputs and cables dating back to PMacG5s. Combining those into one higher bandwidth HDMI or DP signal requires an active adapter. These do exist, but are kinda rare.

I have also seen that some monitor GFX-card combos will only do specific lower modes if the can't agree on the native ones.

So OPs 5k monitor is almost 4x the pixels that the MacMini can do but the combo somehow fails to see the 2k mode (which would be exactly 4 pixel for 1) and resorts to going down to 1920x1080.

 

[Amethyst1]

Not sure why you say “That’s not what EveryMac says”? I’m just reporting the filter results.

Yes, but what I meant was that those Macs were the last ones to do up to and including 2560×1600 at 60 Hz, with newer ones doing higher resolutions but also implicitly doing 2560×1600.

I assume “270 MHz” corresponds to 2560x1600?

2560×1600 at 60 Hz or e.g. 3840×2160 at 30 Hz using CVT-RB timings (which are the standard for LCDs).

I read that entire megathread about the problems M4 Macs have with UltraWide monitors and anytime someone posted a screen shot of the listed available resolutions, I never saw 2560x1600 listed.

If the monitor's EDID doesn't include that resolution macOS won't offer it.

Yes, I have one of those HDMI-to-DVI adapters with my 2012 Mac mini as well. Never considered trying it as I assumed it would not do 2560x1600.

Neither will the 30" ACD do that via single-link DVI or HDMI FWIW.

Most Macs of that era support an external display of 2560x1600, because this was the resolution of the 30" Apple Cinema Display.

They will do higher resolutions if the refresh rate is lowered accordingly to stay below the Mac's pixel clock limit. Generally speaking, if 2560×1600 at 60 Hz (268.5 MHz CVT-RB) works then e.g. 3840×2160 at 30 Hz (262.75 MHz CVT-RB) will also work.

After Apple stopped using their own ADC monitor connector, up to 2010 Macs had a miniDP output socket, then in 2011 the same socket became Thunderbolt 1, which carried a DP signal.

After ADC was replaced in 2004, Macs used full-size DVI (Mac mini, Power Mac, Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, 15"/17" PowerBook), mini-DVI (12" PowerBook, MacBook, iMac) and micro-DVI (MacBook Air). miniDP came in October 2008.

Higher resolutions on DVI were done with DualLink outputs and cables dating back to PMacG5s. Combining those into one higher bandwidth HDMI or DP signal requires an active adapter. These do exist, but are kinda rare.

I haven't seen any DL-DVI to HDMI adapters at all but DL-DVI to DP is a thing. I've had several of these.

So OPs 5k monitor is almost 4x the pixels that the MacMini can do but the combo somehow fails to see the 2k mode (which would be exactly 4 pixel for 1) and resorts to going down to 1920x1080.

I would install SwitchResX next and try creating a custom 2560×1080@60Hz CVT-RB or 3440×1440@50Hz CVT-RB mode.

 

[Bug-Creator]

I haven't seen any DL-DVI to HDMI adapters

I'm pretty sure I saw one somewhere but these would be super niche as HDMI spec only went beyond FullHD some time after DP when DVI was even less relevant.

Point is, those cheap passive adapters simple won't do much past 1080@60Hz.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

If the monitor's EDID doesn't include that resolution macOS won't offer it.

Is there some way (app or command line tool) to get my LG to dump all its EDIDs/resolutions?

I would install SwitchResX next and try creating a custom 2560×1080@60Hz CVT-RB or 3440×1440@50Hz CVT-RB mode.

Interesting - how does one do that?

But more specifically, how would I know if my LG could support those 2 resolutions? (I have SwitchResX installed; as I said upstream, trying the two > 1920x1080 resolutions it offered on the 2012 Mac mini resulted in strange/garbled output.)

 

[Amethyst1]

Is there some way (app or command line tool) to get my LG to dump all its EDIDs/resolutions?

SwitchResX: select the LG and click Export EDID.

Interesting - how does one do that?

I've explained it here: use a vertical scan rate of 50 Hz for 3440×1440.

But more specifically, how would I know if my LG could support those 2 resolutions?

See if it displays them properly.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

Question here is how many Hertz you want... even 3440x1440 is easily doable on a mac mini 2011 and that over HDMI, however the refresh rate will be only 30Hz which is OK for basic things only.
What you want to look up is which bandwidth the link provides and if the monitor support a lower refresh rate at the desired resolution. The screen not advertising certain input resolutions and/or refresh rates is almost always the problem. Some screens are even that stupidlz designed to not advertise their actual resolution over certain links (e.g. iiyama that does only show 1920x1080 over HDMI when the screen is actually 3440x1440). SwitchResX can bypass that somehow, by overriding what the mac sends out... but not how the monitor will process it.

 

[Bug-Creator]

iiyama that does only show 1920x1080 over HDMI when the screen is actually 3440x1440

This might be down to that input only having an older spec of HDMI where it wouldn't be able to show that mode even if you force feed it.
I used to have an 27" Dell that would only accept 2560x1440 over Duallink-DVI or DP, HDMI and VGA maxed out at 1920x1080.

I have experienced a bit myself with running screens to big for the GFX HW on the other end of the cable.

Now this all done with PPC HW running MorphOS where there is a setting that lets you define every plausible (and some not so plausible) timings of a screenmode.

So I pushed a single DVI output over a passive HDMI adapter to a 2560x1440 screen.

Can create a 24??x1440 output that is kinda stable but is squished.
Or I fiddle with the timing get 2560x1440@45Hz which gets stuck on the screen slowly starting to turn white.
Afterwards I need to unplug the power for the monitor or every screen will flicker like hell.
Or I get the values slightly wrong and no picture at all.

Similar results when going from a 2560x1440@60Hz capable HDMI to a 3440x1440 widescreen.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Question here is how many Hertz you want... even 3440x1440 is easily doable on a 2011 Mac mini and that's over HDMI, however the refresh rate will be only 30Hz which is OK for basic things only.

I'm so used to using 2560x1600 @60Hz on a 30" monitor (both at home and at work) that when I got the LG 5K2K I thought well if I get more pixels in each dimension that'll be a win. Then it arrived and I can see that vertically it has less physical inches than the 30" Apple Cinema HD Display and the Dell I'm used to, so I thought OK, maybe with pixel density I can at least make up for that by having more of them.

Using the 2012 Mac mini at 1920x1080 on this monitor (with big black bars on either side to boot) is a pretty big letdown. As I said upstream SwitchResX is only showing me 3440x1440 @50Hz (PAL, 21:9) or 3480x2160 @30Hz (NTSC, 16:9) as available higher resolutions‡, neither of which works so as of this moment, it's pretty frustrating. If I can't do better than 1080p with this combo I'll buy a 30" 2560x1600 monitor and move the Mac mini over to it.

‡Pending trying out @Amethyst1 's trick upstream in the thread

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

SwitchResX: select the LG and click Export EDID.

OK, did that; not sure I expected to get this output:

% grep " x.*@" LG\ HDR\ 5K\ EDID\ dump.txt
        # 0:     640 x  480 @ 60Hz
        # 1:     800 x  600 @ 60Hz
        # 2:    1024 x  768 @ 60Hz
        # 0:    1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz     (D1C0)
        # 1:    1024 x  768 @ 60Hz     (6140)
    Mode = 3440 x 1440 @ 59.973Hz
        VIC # 0: ( 16) 1920 x 1080 @ 60Hz - 16:9
        VIC # 1: (  4) 1280 x 720 @ 60Hz - 16:9
        VIC # 2: (  3) 720 x 480 @ 60Hz - 16:9
        VIC # 3: (  1) 640 x 480 @ 60Hz - 4:3
    Mode = 3440 x 1440 @ 49.987Hz
    Mode = 3840 x 2160 @ 59.997Hz
    Mode = 3840 x 2160 @ 29.981Hz

I've explained it here: use a vertical scan rate of 50 Hz for 3440×1440.

See if it displays them properly.

OK, I went through your steps and used 50 Hz. When I clicked on "Activate immediately" the screen went blank, and it stayed blank until SwitchResX apparently reverted to the previous setting. The custom resolution also did not show up in the "Current Resolutions" tab after that. So I guess it didn't work.

I should note for the record that SwitchResX already had a 3440x1440 @50Hz (PAL) setting in Current Resolutions. I had previously tried it; although it did correctly show almost the full screen (length-wise) on the monitor, there is a large area at the bottom of the screen which can be best described as the screen background image squished down into a rectangle and repeated across the screen about 8 times. This area also obliterates the Dock, so it's simply not usable for me. (I could take an iPhone shot of it if required to illustrate.)

I also tried to make a custom resolution with 3840x2160 @59.997Hz as shown above in the EDID output; it also did not work (blank screen when activated, then it reverts to the previous mode). There was already a 3840x2160 @30Hz mode; if I try that I get similar results to the above, except the visible screen is shrunk even further, and the large region at the bottom is doubled in size and I get the screen background squished only instead of 8 times, it's 2 rows of 8 times so 16 times repeated ... totally unusable. Sigh ...

 

[Amethyst1]

OK, did that; not sure I expected to get this output:

Your output doesn't show the pixel clock for each mode. Can you attach the full file? It doesn't contain any personal information apart from the LG's serial number.

OK, I went through your steps and used 50 Hz. When I clicked on "Activate immediately" the screen went blank, and it stayed blank until SwitchResX apparently reverted to the previous setting.

The screen going blank is SwitchResX activating the mode. It's not selecting the mode automatically.
Are you sure the mode doesn't show up in the Current Resolutions tab? I assume you're connected to DisplayPort/Thunderbolt? It's worth trying a lower refresh rate such as 30 or 40 Hz to see if that is accepted by the monitor and if so, gradually increasing it to see when it falls apart.

I also tried to make a custom resolution with 3840x2160 @59.997Hz as shown above in the EDID output; it also did not work (blank screen when activated, then it reverts to the previous mode).

That requires a pixel clock well over 500 MHz. The 2012 mini's GPU can't do that. The hardware's limited to 360 MHz, macOS additionally artificially limits it to 270 MHz.

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Your output doesn't show the pixel clock for each mode. Can you attach the full file? It doesn't contain any personal information apart from the LG's serial number.

See attached.

I assume you're connected to DisplayPort/Thunderbolt? It's worth trying a lower refresh rate such as 30 or 40 Hz to see if that is accepted by the monitor and if so, gradually increasing it to see when it falls apart.

2012 Mac mini -> Thunderbolt 1 output port -> StarTech TB2 dock TB2 input port -> StarTech TB2 dock DP output port -> LG 5K2K DP input port

That requires a pixel clock well over 500 MHz. The 2012 Mac mini's GPU can't do that.

OK, so this one is "Monitor: can do, Mac: no can do."

 

[Amethyst1]

See attached.

Cheers. 3440×1440@50Hz and 3840×2160@30Hz are CVT-RB modes and have pixel clocks below 270 MHz. Does SwitchResX's main window for the LG (where the Export EDID button is) indicate a 270 MHz pixel clock limit, or does it indicate a lower one?

2012 Mac mini -> Thunderbolt 1 output port -> StarTech TB2 dock TB2 input port -> StarTech TB2 dock DP output port -> LG 5K2K DP input port

That shouldn't™ affect anything because a TB2 dock can tunnel DP 1.2. Trying a direct connection without the dock is still worth a try I guess.

OK, so this one is "Monitor: can do, Mac: no can do."

I suppose you could try 2560×1080@60Hz and 2560×1440@60Hz, as these are obviously less pixels than 2560×1600@60Hz. (FWIW, I got 3840×2560@27Hz from a 2012 13" rMBP which has the same CPU/GPU/TB1 setup as the 2012 mini, so it's definitely possible.)

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

Cheers. 3440×1440@50Hz and 3840×2160@30Hz are CVT-RB modes and have pixel clocks below 270 MHz. Does SwitchResX's main window for the LG (where the Export EDID button is) indicate a 270 MHz pixel clock limit, or does it indicate a lower one?

It's greyed out but the Pixel clock values are 20.00 - 270.00 MHz.

That shouldn't™ affect anything because a TB2 dock can tunnel DP 1.2. Trying a direct connection without the dock is still worth a try I guess.

That is ... like with relationship statuses, "It's complicated".

I am running the Mac mini off of an external Thunderbolt 1 SSD. If I were to remove it and boot off of the internal HDD (old OS, spinning disk) and hook up the LG directly to the Thunderbolt 1 port, I'd get lots of waiting and lots of beach balling.

Since my last post I discovered that the LG itself has an internal DP setting where you can choose DP 1.1, 1.2 or 1.4. It's set to 1.4 currently. I don't suppose changing it to 1.2 would help ...

I suppose you could try 2560×1080@60Hz and 2560×1440@60Hz, as these are obviously less pixels than 2560×1600@60Hz. (FWIW, I got 3840×2560@27Hz from a 2012 13" rMBP which has the same CPU/GPU/TB1 setup as the 2012 Mac mini, so it's definitely possible.)

I just tried adding both of those as custom resolutions in SwitchResX and did the "Save" and "Activate immediately"; I got the same results as before - screen goes blank, after 10 seconds or so it reverts back to 1920x1080.

Either I'm doing something wrong (very possible) or else this LG just doesn't want to play nice with SwitchResX and adding custom resolutions.

 

[Amethyst1]

It's greyed out but the Pixel clock values are 20.00 - 270.00 MHz.

That's good. It indicates a four-lane DP 1.1 connection.

Since my last post I discovered that the LG itself has an internal DP setting where you can choose DP 1.1, 1.2 or 1.4. It's set to 1.4 currently. I don't suppose changing it to 1.2 would help ...

I don't think so but playing with it won't hurt.

I just tried adding both of those as custom resolutions in SwitchResX and did the "Save" and "Activate immediately"; I got the same results as before - screen goes blank, after 10 seconds or so it reverts back to 1920x1080.

That's the custom modes being injected into an EDID override. Do they show as "Active" in SwitchResX's Custom Resolutions tab afterwards, or as anything else? If "Active": do they appear in the Current Resolutions tab?

 

[Riot Nrrrd]

That's the custom modes being injected into an EDID override. Do they show as "Active" in SwitchResX's Custom Resolutions tab afterwards, or as anything else? If "Active": do they appear in the Current Resolutions tab?

No, they show as "Not installed". Despite having done a "Save" and noting the timestamp on the .plist file was updated, I see no way to get the 2 entries to go from "Not Installed" to "Active".