Live Video Editing on Macbook Pro

[lukerees83]

Hi all,

I need some help on how to make a video using 2 cameras to shoot 8-ball pool matches. At the moment I am using 2 cameras (a nikon p7000 and a canon g12 positioned at either end of the table) but I am having to take the raw footage off memory cards and composit it in iMovie later, which is way too time-consuming.

I would like to have a really simple setup where I can make a video on the fly, so that I have an onscreen choice between camera 1 and camera 2 and a 'pause recording' feature. This way when a player walks infront of camera 1 I could switch to the other (and vise versa), and when players spend time deliberating over a shot I could hit the pause button to instantly cut out that needless part of the game. At the end of the match I could then have a finished video and all I'd need to do would be upload it to youTube.

Firstly, does anyone know a simple but effective piece of software to do this, and secondly do you know how to wire the cameras up? Would it be 1 USB connection per camera to capture video or do these cameras not support that?

 

[diamond3]

I doubt you would be able to get a live feed out of both of those handheld cameras. Since you are using a 2 camera setup, you may want to look into Final Cut Pro X. If your computer supports it, give it a shot by downloading the trial for a month.

In FCPX, you can basically play it back after importing and click between the two cameras to select which shot to go with. I could go more in depth but there are numerous tutorials out on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFmyXWaQHM

After you get your cuts in place, just go back and take out the sections that aren't needed like you normally would in the editor.

You may be able to get a couple of extra SD cards and start importing the first match during the break and possibly edit them during the next match. Then just convert them for youtube when you get home and upload them.

 

[lukerees83]

Live Feeds

If I could get hold of 2 cameras that would feed live into the Mac, would FCPX have a feature that can allow live editing that woul produce a finished video as soon as filming is over, or would it still require you to import the clips first from the SDs then edit as descried above and on the FCPX website?

 

[matteusclement]

I don't know who makes it, but what you could use is a Vjay mixer device. it's like a DJ mixer, but for video.
But, I doubt it works with USB. Firewire is the standard. You might be able to find a couple of Canon HV20/30's for cheap. They are really good.
ANother limit: FW cables are only 6ft long.

 

[LethalWolfe]

First, since both of those are stills cameras double check that they can send out a live, high quality video signal while they are recording. Second, what you want to do is live switching and this is not what editing software is made for.

Wirecast is a software solution that might work. It's for webcasts but if it has a local record function it might do what you need.

BonixTV is another company that makes software that might work.

Even if you go this route you should still have the cameras record onto their internal media as a backup incase your software fails or you screw up and need to go back to the original footage for some reason.

 

[diamond3]

FCPX will not support live feed and switching between the two cameras as you intend on doing. There is a program called Wirecast that allows you to do all of that but it is $500, so all of this might be over the top of what you're wanting based on the price alone. Maybe UStream Producer Pro for $200? I've never used it so i'm not sure.

The other problem you might run into is your laptop not liking the 2 firewire inputs at the same time.

How long and how many matches are you filming? Is there a lot of editing between the two shots? With the FCPX route, I think you could get close to the amount of time extra editing equal to the length of your shot if you decided to work while they are playing. However, you wouldn't really enjoy the event yourself.

How long is your current method taking you right now?

 

[musique]

Video Switching is not cheap

In general, you’re talking about video switching, something that is done all the time in live television newscasts and in sports. However, the devices made to support these functions are made for the professional market and cost thousands of dollars. For example, Panasonic makes some video switches that probably start around $4,000 or $5,000 that will do what you want. These go up into 5 figures and more.

This is not an area on which many consumer-oriented manufacturers are focused.

You might look at Black Magic. They have some devices for capturing HDMI and other HD streams and converting them to Thunderbolt and/or possibly USB 3. These are under $1,000.

As others suggested it might be simpler to capture it all and use the multicamera function of FCP. Good luck.

 

[jpine]

Multicam it in FCPX is your cheapest option and it works well.

 

[mBox]

In general, you’re talking about video switching...

We use a Sony AnyCast for live and that records to an internal HD but only tested with SD feed.
We never bothered with HD since its never been required.
So yea not cheap.
Ive always wondered why this part of the market never took off.
Audio easily done but Video...

 

[initialsBB]

Have a look at Softron's MovieRecorder, it can record several streams simultaneously and you can even start editing the files before the end of the capture ! I saw a demo a few months ago and it worked really well.

http://www.softron.tv/products/movierecorderexpress.html

Otherwise as was said look into VJing software, freeware and open source. Just a quick search on google brought up GrandVJ. Just make sure that it supports output to file, as opposed to output to screen/projector.

http://www.arkaos.net/product/index.php?catid=1&pid=1001&iid=42

 

[lukerees83]

Wirecast 4 and Mac - Editing on the Fly

Thanks all for your suggestions. I think Wirecast 4 looks like the best solution thus far. Does any one have any good experience of it and why it is good to work with?

diamond3 you had a few points which were relevant also that I'd like to throw open to yourself and others.

The other problem you might run into is your laptop not liking the 2 firewire inputs at the same time.

I'll probably have one webcam plugged into the USB, with the other camera being a nikon p7000. However, this has an HDMI output, and my mac is too old to have an HDMI in, so does an HMDI to Firewire cable exist?

How long and how many matches are you filming? Is there a lot of editing between the two shots? With the FCPX route, I think you could get close to the amount of time extra editing equal to the length of your shot if you decided to work while they are playing. However, you wouldn't really enjoy the event yourself.

Matches take 2-3 hours, but are usually croppable (if that's a word) down to 3 x 15m youtube vids once you cut out all the waiting (lots of it in between shots and racking the balls etc). I don't have time to enjoy it properly the current way, so I might as well add on some extra workload, and edit on the fly to make sure the whole thing is finished by the end of the night. I think FCPX looks great at the new price of $300, but I think I'd like something dedicated to live editing.

How long is your current method taking you right now?

The biggest hassle is motivating myself to plough through the mounds of SD card footage an pairing it all up on iMovie. Probably a good 8-hour shift, sadly.

 

[diamond3]

​

Thanks all for your suggestions. I think Wirecast 4 looks like the best solution thus far. Does any one have any good experience of it and why it is good to work with?

diamond3 you had a few points which were relevant also that I'd like to throw open to yourself and others.

I'll probably have one webcam plugged into the USB, with the other camera being a nikon p7000. However, this has an HDMI output, and my mac is too old to have an HDMI in, so does an HMDI to Firewire cable exist?

Matches take 2-3 hours, but are usually croppable (if that's a word) down to 3 x 15m youtube vids once you cut out all the waiting (lots of it in between shots and racking the balls etc). I don't have time to enjoy it properly the current way, so I might as well add on some extra workload, and edit on the fly to make sure the whole thing is finished by the end of the night. I think FCPX looks great at the new price of $300, but I think I'd like something dedicated to live editing.

The biggest hassle is motivating myself to plough through the mounds of SD card footage an pairing it all up on iMovie. Probably a good 8-hour shift, sadly.

If that is the case, I still don't think wirecast would help you out much. You can stop and start a record, but I don't think you can pause it. Each stop and start will create a new movie file. I've used Wirecast pretty extensively for a multicam setup as well as a desktop presenter feeding into it have not noticed this ability. It really just doesn't seem like the best option for you situation if you are wanting to remove all the waiting in between the shots.

Problems I foresee trying to make this setup work:

• The cost of wirecast
• Not having the right cameras (the one webcam would work, but trying to find a conversion for HDMI into a capture device to firewire will add more $$$)
• The end result would still require iMovie or some video editor to combine all of your individual clips.

I would still go to the original setup with your two cameras, 4 SD cards and FCPX (download trial for a month before buying). After each match, stop the recording, remove the SD card and replace with 2 new ones. Import SD cards into the laptop and import the clips into FCPX. Once both clips are there, select them both and make a multicam clip. Open the angle editor and decide which audio you want to use as your main source (you could switch between both but the quality might be different and require fading in and out etc). Then using the video only option to switch between the shots, you can even go back into the timeline and delete a whole segment that has nothing in it and everything else will still remain in sync. ---This will make more sense after you watch that tutorial I posted before.

The last question is what macbook pro do you have? What year? Memory? HD space?

 

[lukerees83]

The last question is what macbook pro do you have? What year? Memory? HD space?

2008 Macbook pro, now upgraded to 4gb RAM, 180gb solid state HDD (with about 40-50gb free for each project).

On a side point, if you have an extrenal 1TB HD does it slow everything down if you use this as the base for your work instead of the Mac's HDD?

 

[mBox]

2008 Macbook pro, now upgraded to 4gb RAM, 180gb solid state HDD (with about 40-50gb free for each project).

On a side point, if you have an extrenal 1TB HD does it slow everything down if you use this as the base for your work instead of the Mac's HDD?

its important to use the fastest external drive (you can access) from my experience.
clips on the main drive tends to slow everything down.

 

[lukerees83]

I have a LaCie Hard Disk design by Neil Poulton 1TB USB 2.0 - 7200RPM. I didn't quite understand but are you saying it could be faster to use this than the MAc's internal drive?

 

[mBox]

I have a LaCie Hard Disk design by Neil Poulton 1TB USB 2.0 - 7200RPM. I didn't quite understand but are you saying it could be faster to use this than the MAc's internal drive?

Well not USB, for some reason I thought I read you have a FW800 drive. Yes any type of heavy lifting such as Digital Video (even more so due to HD), Audio and 3D/Motion Graphics work should be off-loaded to a really fast external drive.
To date even FW800 is considered too slow.
This doesnt mean you cant do your work, Im just suggesting you get something faster and safer thats not sitting on your computer.

 

[ctyhntr]

What is the resolution? If you're trying to livestream anything more than 640x480/30 fps its going to be a struggle with USB 2.0.

The most common setup I've seen for pool matches is Canon Vixia HV20/30/40 running firewire into ustream producter pro. Pro gives you HD support and multi-camera setup, in addition to livestream and saving to file. Next step up would probably be a tricaster.